Journalism and cycling

Pinch Flat

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Conor Faughnan has been cycling to work for years.

Yep, came across him a few years ago professionally and was surprised he cycled. "you'd be mad to drive in Dublin" he said.

Talking about congestion on NewsTalk now. Just caught the end of one point.... some way to legally use the bus lanes. I'll give it a few more minutes before I tune out.

MiskyBoyy

Electric scooters 'set to be legalised on UK roads and cycle lanes'

https://news.sky.com/story/electric-scooters-set-to-be-legalised-on-uk-roads-and-cycle-lanes-11919889?fbclid=IwAR04xniEEMMYVMEvtKVuDQUOkWE3VdrgCBL5JZf0WSDCHRRIGdBfzP6qPjw

what_traffic

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Conor Faughnan has been cycling to work for years.

He mentions it pretty regularly alright on radio shows, he is after all the RTE goto person when any "traffic" item is raised. Always very easy for them to goto the AA PR spokesperson...... I wonder why? :rolleyes:
He is paid to promote and lobby for cars, and he is very good operator at doing that.

rubadub

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Electric scooters 'set to be legalised on UK roads and cycle lanes'

that will be interesting to watch. I wonder what cities will be trialled, I imagine there will be lots of drunks having goes on them. 1 lad would bring it to the pub and the inexperienced drunk mates would have goes and ruin any chance.

There is meant to be a problem with drunks etc in Germany and I reckon we are closer in our likliehood to obey the law with the UK than the Germans. I remember finding it unnerving in Germany waiting for a green man at a pedestrian crossing on a totally empty road.

micar

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Electric scooters 'set to be legalised on UK roads and cycle lanes'

https://news.sky.com/story/electric-scooters-set-to-be-legalised-on-uk-roads-and-cycle-lanes-11919889?fbclid=IwAR04xniEEMMYVMEvtKVuDQUOkWE3VdrgCBL5JZf0WSDCHRRIGdBfzP6qPjw

The 2,400+ facebook comments on the sky page are just as you expect,......road tax, insurance, licence plates, helmets, lights, hi viz, think they own the road, accidents waiting to happen

Pinch Flat

micar wrote: »

The 2,400+ facebook comments on the sky page are just as you expect,......road tax, insurance, licence plates, helmets, lights, hi viz, think they own the road, accidents waiting to happen

Nothing like a story reminding motorists that they don't own the road to trigger en masse

Thelonious Monk

Does anyone know if they're ever going to start the bike lanes through Fairview? I can't find any recent info on it.

Seth Brundle

Interesting thread containing a letter to the Minister for Transport Shane Ross from Xilinix who are calling for better and safer cycling infrastructure
Xilinix employ Yaman Umuroglu who was recently attacked along the canal in Dublin.

https://twitter.com/Sinabhfuil/status/1222838192518418432?s=19

Moflojo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Does anyone know if they're ever going to start the bike lanes through Fairview? I can't find any recent info on it.

It's supposed to be going to tender shortly. Q3 2020 was the last expected start date that I heard, but that has probably slipped a bit since.

Pinch Flat

https://news.sky.com/story/four-children-riding-bicycles-killed-by-car-in-sydney-crash-11923456?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Absolutely shocking and heart breaking news coming from Sydney.

Duckjob

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/four-children-riding-bicycles-killed-by-car-in-sydney-crash-11923456?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Absolutely shocking and heart breaking news coming from Sydney.

Jesus, that's horrible, just horrible

when out walking or on the bike with the kids I often gesture to neighbours that are driving inappropriately to slow down and they look back at me like I'm some sort of crank. The ones I gesture to are usually doing somewhere between 50-65kph on a narrow residential road leading into/out of my estate with a blind bend and entrances into apartments where small kids play on their bikes.

This car dominant culture is a load of b0110x. Fed up with it.

Pinch Flat

It's hard to see where or when our "stop de kindermoord" will be. The narrative against cycling seems to be so toxic and negative and car domination shows zero sign of abating.

Same in my estate - signs up warning people of children playing and a recently installed 30kph limit sign. Absolutely zero impact on driver behaviour.

AndrewJRenko

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's hard to see where or when our "stop de kindermoord" will be. The narrative against cycling seems to be so toxic and negative and car domination shows zero sign of abating.

Same in my estate - signs up warning people of children playing and a recently installed 30kph limit sign. Absolutely zero impact on driver behaviour.

Maybe it's a bit of a Twitter echo chamber effect, but I do see many more positive, pro-cycling voices from politicians, Councillors, activists and just mouthy younger folks these days then there was ten years ago. Certainly there is still a toxic, negative narrative out there, possibly getting even more toxic because like most bullies, it doesn't like being challenged, but I do see signs of a tide turning.

Seth Brundle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe it's a bit of a Twitter echo chamber effect, but I do see many more positive, pro-cycling voices from politicians, Councillors, activists and just mouthy younger folks these days then there was ten years ago. Certainly there is still a toxic, negative narrative out there, possibly getting even more toxic because like most bullies, it doesn't like being challenged, but I do see signs of a tide turning.

Actions speak louder than words and there have been very few suitable actions!

magicbastarder

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Conor Faughnan has been cycling to work for years.

he's bound to arrive there soon.

Chips Lovell

A Sisyphean commute.

rubadub

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Same in my estate - signs up warning people of children playing and a recently installed 30kph limit sign. Absolutely zero impact on driver behaviour.

Fake 30km/h signs were illegally put up in my estate by what I think was a residents commitee. Even a FF councillor Cormac Devlin was pictured helping put these up. These were not just signs saying to slow down, they were purposely made to appear like proper signs but possibly had some tiny disclaimer on them at the bottom, can't find pics now.

They were taken down a few weeks later, dunno if it was the council who did it. I have no idea if those involved were cautioned or anything.

I have no problem if the limit changed but do not condone this illegal stuff. It could infuriate people who knew it was not legit who could purposely go out of their way to defy it. They could have put up signs asking to drive at 30 but not trying to trick/deceive people like this.

MiskyBoyy

Ireland had highest rise in cycling deaths in EU in nine-year period - report
Number of cycling fatalities rose on average by 8% a year in 2010-2018, study found

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-had-highest-rise-in-cycling-deaths-in-eu-in-nine-year-period-report-1.4159467?fbclid=IwAR2zUDD_x1nDx0SZhc4ncH4_vMWPg-Q1VgtVMnKvzcSYLV-UHXFt0YMQ8Vw

Pinch Flat

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Ireland had highest rise in cycling deaths in EU in nine-year period - report
Number of cycling fatalities rose on average by 8% a year in 2010-2018, study found

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-had-highest-rise-in-cycling-deaths-in-eu-in-nine-year-period-report-1.4159467?fbclid=IwAR2zUDD_x1nDx0SZhc4ncH4_vMWPg-Q1VgtVMnKvzcSYLV-UHXFt0YMQ8Vw

Apparently it's because cyclists are not using cycle lanes provided at great expense. Well, according to the Facebook comments anyway

tomasrojo

I agree with this, if the way the percentage was calculated is as stated:
https://twitter.com/sticky_bottle/status/1224087869364539392

In fact, though I don't wish to be dogmatic, it's a nonsensical comparison. Percentages just can't be used meaningfully for very small numbers over small-ish timescales.
5->8 They're up 60%
8->5 They're down 37%
5->10 They're up 100%
10->4 They're down 60%
(I just made those up to make the points about small total changes leading to big percentage changes.)

One drunk driver and the national total can go up 100%. Not that that isn't a terrible event and a tragedy, but it's just not a meaningful way of looking at trends, and using two data points just compounds the error.

And the "rose on average by 8% a year" is such bad analysis. Makes it sound like it steadily creeping up, but the number jumped around wildly in those years, as small numbers tend to.

tomasrojo

If you want the actual numbers, they're here (except for 2017 and 2018):
https://irishcycle.com/collisions/

2010: 5
2011: 9
2012: 8
2013: 5
2014: 12
2015: 9
2016: 10

So, while there might well be an upward trend, nine points wouldn't establish it very well, and two points don't tell you much at all.

meeeeh

It's very simplistic analysis. I'm too lazy to read the whole report but I'm sad enough to look through tables behind the report. In case of Ireland the result would be much worse if comparison would be with 2017 (14) deaths. This kind of stuff is interesting for general trends but it doesn't take into account increases in traffic (recession vs full employment) and increases of people cycling and the time spent cycling. Also it's interesting that country with second or third highest increase in cycling deaths is Netherlands.

I'm not saying the situation in Ireland around cycling is good because it's not (and needs significant improvement of cycling, driving behaviour and infrastructure) however I don't like it when numbers are highlighted without context. Also pedestrian deaths numbers are more favourable but far from great in comparison and they are not reported because they don't have the same click bait effect.

For example the same table shows 2.something cyclists per million die in Ireland and 12.something cycling deaths per million in Netherlands. Cycling deaths per km cycled would be way more relevant comparison. I think nobody in their right mind would claim Ireland is safer for cycling than Netherlands. It's very simplistic reporting of a study that to me looks a bit suspicious anyway. I'm not saying Ireland is safe for cycling but I really dislike that kind of lazy reporting.

tomasrojo

This approach applied to the Netherlands isn't so bad (or even countries with much lower cycling rates but big populations), because the number per year is way above 20 or so. It's when you get much below 25 you start getting a lot of statistical noise relative to the signal.

(Yeah, definitely should report per billion km travelled, not per million inhabitants. The second metric allows the complete disappearance of cycling to look like a triumph.)

tomasrojo

Another point about percentages that often gets forgotten is that they make rises look more spectacular than falls.

5->9 A rise of 80%
9->5 A fall of 44%

I remember the Irish Times writing about falling house prices back in the day. Their logic was essentially (I'll just use the example above, because I can't remember what numbers they were using) that prices had risen 80% before but only fallen 44% so far, so quite a way to go yet before you'd lose your money.

meeeeh

Ireland had a 35% fall in deaths from 2017 to 2018. I guess they are doing something right.

Seth Brundle

Cycling group wants Dublin streets cleaned near building sites
Campaigners say more slips and falls by cyclists due to dirt and oil from construction vehicles

A Dublin cycling group has asked Dublin City Council to clean up several traffic junctions after reports of increased slips and falls by cyclists on greasy road surfaces near construction sites.

Dublin Cycling Campaign, the voluntary group that lobbies for improved conditions for cyclists, made the request after more than 100 people fell from bikes in January.

The campaign mapped reports of cyclists falling or their bikes slipping due to oil or grease on the roads and found that the incidents were caused around constructions sites in the city.

magicbastarder

meeeeh wrote: »

Also it's interesting that country with second or third highest increase in cycling deaths is Netherlands.

without having looked into the figures, i suspect this is a lot to do with the uptake of e-bikes, which was reported to be the main driver behind deaths from cycling overtaking deaths from driving in NL for the first time in years.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-high-cyclist-deaths-eu-4990173-Feb2020/

Christ... the comments on this. People are astounded to see cyclists with no high viz or helmets, they seem to think these things are required by law. I've never worn either and never will.

rubadub

meeeeh wrote: »

Also it's interesting that country with second or third highest increase in cycling deaths is Netherlands.

They are probably including deaths of elderly people getting on or off bikes -not while actually cycling. I am in 2 minds about them being reported, it is good to highlight the problem but not really what people think of when they hear of cycling deaths.

If a load of faulty car jacks resulted in mechanics being crushed by cars I don't think it should be included in car death figures.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/older-men-using-e-bikes-behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists

“We know that simple accidents, including fatalities, can often be attributed to bad road surface,” Van der Knaap said. “We should not underestimate how many accidents happen among the elderly when getting on and off an e-bike. Such a bicycle is heavier than a regular one. Sometimes the problem starts because some older people do not take into account that their own physical possibilities are reduced.”

Also there are simply more older people now cycling in the Netherlands, if there was some reason they were not walking and suddenly loads did you would expect a rise in accidents.

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/87-percent-dutch-cyclists-killed-while-e-bikes-were-over-60-years-old.html

The problem is that, as you get older, falls are more deadly. Bones break more easily. Balance, hearing and eyesight are not what they were. So in some ways the statistics are not surprising. People over 60 generally die at a higher rate from just about anything. A significant number of older pedestrians trip and fall while walking (including my late mom), a much higher proportion than the general population, and they die at a much higher rate when hit by cars (as shown in the above graph), but that doesn’t mean we advise that older people stop walking; it means that we demand that the infrastructure be improved -- in this case, better, wider bike lanes separating cyclists from traffic.