Journalism and cycling

tomasrojo

Peter Walker expresses himself well and seems thoroughly decent.

magicbastarder

damien o'tuama is going to be on matt cooper at about 5:15; to lament the very existence of george hook, i hope.

Danbo!

magicbastarder wrote: »

it has been reported that the other vehicle was a large roadsweeping truck.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/male-cyclist-dies-after-truck-collision-in-rathfarnham-1.3295785

Are these usually left hand drive?

mr spuckler

Danbo! wrote: »

Mirror has a photo of roadsweeper

and of the bicycle underneath it from what I can see?

mr spuckler

Danbo! wrote: »

Oh, I didn't notice that, sorry. I'm not sure looking at it now.

Poor guy. Another middle of the day incident too, on a dry bright clear day

i certainly wasn't having a go at you, i figured you hadn't seen it when you didn't mention it. the paper shouldn't be publishing it if it is the case though.

Danbo!

mr spuckler wrote: »

i certainly wasn't having a go at you, i figured you hadn't seen it when you didn't mention it. the paper shouldn't be publishing it if it is the case though.

No I know that, I mean sorry for posting it at all if it is visible. Removed anyway.

mr spuckler

seamus wrote: »

Bit insensitive of the IT to publish close-up photos of the bike. Family and clubmates could recognise a rider by their bike.

i was about to post exactly that - the bike is quite distinctive looking.

edit: I don't see an easy way to contact the journalist to request it be edited to remove those photos? am not on twitter - they have him as @jackpower83 if someone wants to message to remove it?

Bigus

seamus wrote: »

Bit insensitive of the IT to publish close-up photos of the bike. Family and clubmates could recognise a rider by their bike.

RIP to the rider. Passed a sweeper myself near there (not the same one) this morning, they're a law unto themselves.

I don't agree with you, I think they are right to publish ,

I think the more cyclists see the aftermath and the more real it is with the bike showing caught underneath the slow moving truck along with the immediacy,
May mean vulnerable road users taking extra precautions around trucks and buses tonight.

Rip to the cyclist and condolences to his family.

TallGlass

seamus wrote: »

Bit insensitive of the IT to publish close-up photos of the bike. Family and clubmates could recognise a rider by their bike.

RIP to the rider. Passed a sweeper myself near there (not the same one) this morning, they're a law unto themselves.

To be honest, people need to stop hiding away from the reality of what is happening out there on our roads. Dying in a road accident is brutal, that's the reality.

To me, looking at that truck, it shouldn't be on the road that tyre in the picture to me is bald and has threads showing. What a joke, and I am not pointing the blame, but HGV drivers need to hold a higher standard of driving than others.

That's not acceptable.

TallGlass

Bigus wrote: »

I think the more cyclists see the aftermath and the more real it is with the bike showing caught underneath the slow moving truck along with the immediacy,
May mean vulnerable road users taking extra precautions around trucks and buses tonight.

While I agree with you, they shouldn't be just showing it for vulnerable road users but for all users.

Imagine, if that was you in that truck, regardless of what the circumstances are, you have to live with the trauma from this event for the rest of your life. That's not an easy burden to carry for most people.

Cyclists shouldn't be careful just around HGVs we have been killed by static people crossing out without looking. So keep your eyes peeled for everything. Then there are times your not at fault, your at the mercy of someone else's actions or inaction.

seamus

TallGlass wrote: »

To be honest, people need to stop hiding away from the reality of what is happening out there on our roads. Dying in a road accident is brutal, that's the reality.

My point is that there will be people who are unaware that a family member, friend or club mate has passed away, are only learning about it from some close-up photos of their bike published by the Irish Times.

There's a protocol for this, and I think the IT have overstepped the mark.

Bigus

seamus wrote: »

My point is that there will be people who are unaware that a family member, friend or club mate has passed away, are only learning about it from some close-up photos of their bike published by the Irish Times.

There's a protocol for this, and I think the IT have overstepped the mark.

Well I walked up the road and saw the same as the photographer, so who's protecting me ?

And he was taking the pictures on a long lens as I viewed the scene,

I'll restate , no harm for ordinary people see reality immediately like the unfortunate traffic corps do daily.

TallGlass

seamus wrote: »

My point is that there will be people who are unaware that a family member, friend or club mate has passed away, are only learning about it from some close-up photos of their bike published by the Irish Times.

There's a protocol for this, and I think the IT have overstepped the mark.

I understand what you are saying.

If that was me, publish away if it means it stops and gets people thinking.

It's too common a headline reading some static heading 'cyclist killed' with a stock image means nothing these days.

Actual pictures of the incident bring it home to people. I'd like to think.

magicbastarder

posts regarding the use of photos of incident scenes have been moved here

magicbastarder

FWIW, regarding those photos - i don't have too much of an issue with it; you see photos of aftermaths of incidents all the time.

seamus

TallGlass wrote: »

Actual pictures of the incident bring it home to people. I'd like to think.

Bigus wrote: »

I'll restate , no harm for ordinary people see reality immediately like the unfortunate traffic corps do daily.

I'm not disagreeing with either of you.

But it's protocol that names or identities in tragic deaths aren't released until it's confirmed that those who need to know, have been informed in private.

It's not about "protecting" people from disturbing imagery, it's about acknowledging that a person should not learn about the death of close friend/loved one from a public broadcast.

magicbastarder

i know someone who as a cub reporter was several times given the task of the 'death knock' - usually the equivalent of drawing the shortest straw in journalistic terms, calling to the family of the bereaved for a statement. obviously most journalists hated it.

magicbastarder

damien o'tuama on today FM now.

CramCycle

The second photo is quite shocking if you happen to have a big screen, I hadn't copped the helmet on the ground in the first one.

In two minds, I think it needs to be shown, but I think if I knew the guy it would screw me up. No idea which is the right way to go.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know someone who as a cub reporter was several times given the task of the 'death knock' - usually the equivalent of drawing the shortest straw in journalistic terms, calling to the family of the bereaved for a statement. obviously most journalists hated it.

actually, forgot to mention - on one of the death knocks this chap did, the door was answered, and he immediately mumbled an excuse about being at the wrong house based on the demeanour of whomever answered. as he was walking back down the driveway, a garda car was pulling up outside.

robyntmorton

This is a difficult one.

On one hand, it needs to be shown. This is the aftermath of when it all goes horribly wrong.

On the other, is the immediate aftermath the right time to plaster this kind of image over every news site and social media site going? I personally don't think so. There is a time for it, but this is not it.

ThisRegard

Danbo! wrote: »

Are these usually left hand drive?

Yeah. I used to think it was dual drive but I only ever noticed the driver on the left.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

actually, forgot to mention - on one of the death knocks this chap did, the door was answered, and he immediately mumbled an excuse about being at the wrong house based on the demeanour of whomever answered. as he was walking back down the driveway, a garda car was pulling up outside.

I remember a journalist calling to a friends house after his younger sibling had passed away, asking, quite uncaringly for a picture for a national paper and if he could get a few words from them.

The parish priest, a quiet man nearly threw him clean over the garden fence. It is a tough job but some people are not cut out for it.

Honestly, journalists should not be doing death knocks, it is a time of shock, grief and in time acceptance. Asking for a quote from a bereaved family shows how debased some people have become IMO

magicbastarder

sure look at what happened with the deaths on the pier in buncrana.
http://donegalnews.com/2016/04/mail-on-sunday-apologises-for-buncrana-interview/

iirc, the journalist claimed merely to be a well wisher and did not identify herself as a journalist.

fiachraX

IT has taken down the photo with the bike now. Only the other two photos of the truck remain.

ThisRegard

TallGlass wrote: »

If that was me, publish away if it means it stops and gets people thinking.

It's too common a headline reading some static heading 'cyclist killed' with a stock image means nothing these days.

Actual pictures of the incident bring it home to people. I'd like to think.

At this point I agree. As a horrible image as it is, a mangled bike and personal effects might hit home to some motorists that it's a person on the bike, not a bike that's just an impersonal piece of steel or metal.

John_Rambo

ThisRegard wrote: »

At this point I agree. As a horrible image as it is, a mangled bike and personal effects might hit home to some motorists that it's a person on the bike, not a bike that's just an impersonal piece of steel metal.

I'm with you ThisRegard, but I have a feeling our "expert" drivers in the upside down world will feel it's a photograph that cyclist should look at and "mend' their ways (ie: get off the roads and out of their way)

Again, condolences to the mans family and friends. Tragic.

Annie get your Run

Matt Cooper about to talk about why cyclists don't use cycle lanes.

magicbastarder

obviously was delayed a little - just announced that it's coming up after the current ad break.

magicbastarder

oh dear. niall ring.
at least matt cooper called him on his usual bollocks.

Annie get your Run

magicbastarder wrote: »

oh dear. niall ring.
at least matt cooper called him on his usual bollocks.

Not sure what to make of that! Lotta (?) Spoke very well but v short segment - at least Matt didn't allow too much of the whataboutery

mr spuckler

Guardian piece on potential (but unlikely) helmet usage in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/24/no-plan-to-make-cycle-helmets-compulsory-in-safety-review-minister

interesting point regarding the selective interpretation by The Times for the purpose of their headline.

tomasrojo

mr spuckler wrote: »

Guardian piece on potential (but unlikely) helmet usage in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/24/no-plan-to-make-cycle-helmets-compulsory-in-safety-review-minister

interesting point regarding the selective interpretation by The Times for the purpose of their headline.

I think it's even beyond selective interpretation. A Sunday Times journalist asked specifically about them, and the minister had to answer (saying he was sure it would come up in the review). Then they reported that he was considering a law. So they really were just reporting that their sister publication asked a question. Hold the front page!

TheBlaaMan

This is a piece that Chris Boardman was commissioned to write for today's Sunday Times, but when submitted, they didn't use (or even tell him they were not using....nice) https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/article/20171126-ris-Boardman-0

It follows on from an article in the Guardian newspaper earlier this year, https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/21/bike-helmet-cyclists-safe-urban-warfare-wheels which is also worth a read.

In summary, both suggest - no surprise for many here - that use of helmets, while psychologically important for the individual, offers little or no benefit (quite the opposite) for the population as a whole, that the only thing to benefit a cycling population is better infrastructure and management/control of vehicular driving habits.

rubadub

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

This is a piece that Chris Boardman was commissioned to write for today's Sunday Times, but when submitted, they didn't use (or even tell him they were not using....nice) https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/article/20171126-ris-Boardman-0

fixed your link https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/article/20171126-chris-Boardman-0

tomasrojo

They published a piece by Andrew Gilligan on much the same topic, so I guess they got their article by other means. Very bad form not to tell CB.

mr spuckler

Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions are increasing

it seems we're likely to see fines of up to €455m in 2020.

the blurb regarding sources of emissions is telling - they don't even pretend that there's a plan to reduce transport emissions.

Transport: Emissions have increased by 3.7 per cent in 2016 and 13 per cent in the past four years. This is driven by economic and employment growth and shows no sign of abatement in the short term. Increased use of diesel more than offset a decline in petrol and biofuel use in 2016.

tomasrojo

tomasrojo wrote: »

They published a piece by Andrew Gilligan on much the same topic, so I guess they got their article by other means. Very bad form not to tell CB.

Cock-up:
https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/935150321852133376

tomasrojo

mr spuckler wrote: »

Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions are increasing

it seems we're likely to see fines of up to €455m in 2020.

the blurb regarding sources of emissions is telling - they don't even pretend that there's a plan to reduce transport emissions.

They have fairly close to an easy win by facilitating cycling in urban areas. They just don't believe in it, and won't face down loudmouth vested interests.

mr spuckler

tomasrojo wrote: »

They have fairly close to an easy win by facilitating cycling in urban areas. They just don't believe in it, and won't face down loudmouth vested interests.

not just that - they've shown no real appetite to tackle any of the sources of emissions despite signing up to the agreements and knowing that these penalties are coming.

Moflojo

Perfectly balanced, non-inflammatory opinion piece about cycling and hate speech published on Broadsheet today. Needs no further discussion.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/11/30/stop-the-cycle-of-hate/

Tombo2001

Moflojo wrote: »

Perfectly balanced, non-inflammatory opinion piece about cycling and hate speech published on Broadsheet today. Needs no further discussion.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/11/30/stop-the-cycle-of-hate/

Best not read the comments.

Moflojo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Best not read the comments.

There are some bastions of sense ON BOTH SIDES, once you skim through the usual rhetoric.

AndrewJRenko

Moflojo wrote: »

Perfectly balanced, non-inflammatory opinion piece about cycling and hate speech published on Broadsheet today. Needs no further discussion.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/11/30/stop-the-cycle-of-hate/

It's not just me that smells a fairly strong, if subtle, anti-cycling message from Broadsheet, right?

magicbastarder

i don't think it's that they're anti-cycling, per se. i think it's that they're pro-clickbait.

Pinch Flat

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/almost-half-of-pedestrians-killed-over-festive-period-last-year-had-been-drinking-experts-warn-36367663.html

More victim blaming and hi-vis nonsense. Will we ever see a headline "December is the month where there's most drunk drivers on the roads".

Lumen

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not just me that smells a fairly strong, if subtle, anti-cycling message from Broadsheet, right?

I don't smell that.

Chips Lovell

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Will we ever see a headline "December is the month where there's most drunk drivers on the roads".

I don't know about you, but I see headlines like that pretty much every year.

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think it's that they're anti-cycling, per se. i think it's that they're pro-clickbait.

It was the 'let's put the really hairy bits in bold to rile up the commentariat' that gave it away for me.

monument

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's not just me that smells a fairly strong, if subtle, anti-cycling message from Broadsheet, right?

No, not at all.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It was the 'let's put the really hairy bits in bold to rile up the commentariat' that gave it away for me.

It’s a news / random bits digest website — putting the key bits in bold is normal for such.