Journalism and cycling

mr spuckler

that makes more sense than the way i'd read it but as you've said if that is the meaning then why say it?

either way i'm still curious about how they came to these conclusions from census data alone, as they seem to suggest.

on the 20-29 front i wonder is it just extrapolating from risk associated with driving for this demographic?

cdaly_

rubadub wrote: »

As it is so highly likely that the risk increaes the further you go I would not have expected them to say it. Therefore I took it to mean that the further your journey the more risk per km.

So if a guy only goes 5km 5 days a week he is less likely to have a crash than a guy going 25km once a week. Even though they have the same km my money would be on the higher distance guy having a higher chance of being in collisons, simply as longer distance guys tend to be on road bikes, going faster, possibly in more of a hurry so willing to take risks, and not on cycletracks, and in the thick of traffic. I see lots of casual commuters using pedestrian lights to avoid roundabouts etc.

I would have expected it to be the other way around. The person cycling 5km at a time, on the cycle track is more likely to encounter conflict zones (driveways, junctions, pedestrians) where they lose priority and hence more opportunities for collision while the 25km trip on road doesn't encounter these conflict zones.

Chips Lovell

Is it possible, for example, that cycling 100km a week has the same approximate health benefit as cycling 200km a week, but your collision risk doubles because your time cycling doubles?

rubadub

cdaly_ wrote: »

on the cycle track is more likely to encounter conflict zones (driveways, junctions, pedestrians).

we would have to see exactly what is meant by

high risk of collisions with other vehicles on the road

are they being exact/pedantic and not including a crash on a cycletrack. But also how is the info gathered, it could well be from hospital reports, so the slow commuter might bang into a car but not end up in hospital and so not in stats. Are they counting other bicycles as vehicles, I see far more kitted out guys on road bikes commuting who have crashed into each other.

I don't recall ever being hit or hitting a car or pedestrian. I have come off due to ice many times, and fallen off due to having to avoid idiot pedestrians & cars/buses. I think a pedestrian did run into me once, but he strolled off totally grand, if I had been going high speed in skimpy lyrcra I might have needed stitches.

tomasrojo

I assumed at first they were referring to cumulative risk (the likelihood of having been in a collision rises continuously as you clock up more kilometres), but that's such a trivial observation that I doubt a decent study would highlight it. (rubadub said this already.)

Think this study will have to be read to find out what the authors actually said.

(Also "high risk of collision with other vehicles" could include bikes, which would be the most common type of collision for people on bikes, I think, after collisions with pedestrians.)

mr spuckler

funding allocated to assess feasibility of Farmleigh bridge into Phoenix Park

John_Rambo

There's a rumour that Paul Williams claimed he wrote of a car uninsured with no licence on air this morning.

Kaisr Sose

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-warn-against-dangerous-modification-over-risk-posed-to-cyclists-35800224.html

Would not want a close pass with these wheels..like something out of Ben Hur!!

Pinch Flat

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-warn-against-dangerous-modification-over-risk-posed-to-cyclists-35800224.html

Would not want a close pass with these wheels..like something out of Ben Hur!!

I've said it time and time again. An IQ test before you get your licence would sort this non sense out. It's terrible we have to share the road with such half wits.

rubadub

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-warn-against-dangerous-modification-over-risk-posed-to-cyclists-35800224.html

Would not want a close pass with these wheels..like something out of Ben Hur!!

someone posted a link earlier, I was thinking Mad Max, but Ben Hur is closer to what it does.

"looks cool", wonder how old this tit was, and how much he paid and how long it took to fit them. Prize tosser, can picture him standing back "jobs a good un".

EDIT: they were calling them mad max on an aussie site, more like Sad Max...

Outcry over 'Mad Max' truck spikes

A load of ignorant assholes defending them with this "they are only plastic" line.

tomasrojo

mr spuckler wrote: »

just reading the independent's version of this story.



the more i read this line the more it makes me resemble this chap ->

i remember some ad on tv from my younger years - "here comes the science bit".

edit: i see now that the same line was in the IT article

2nd edit: it costs $31.50 to see the science bit

Having read the abstract, I'm no clearer about what the researchers actually did. Was it a model(*), or empirical, or what?

I know it says they used a Disease Burden approach, but that's pretty much why they express the benefits and drawbacks in terms of Disability Adjusted Life Years. Doesn't explain how they got to their numbers.

(*)EDIT: The abstract does say "This paper models and estimates the health impacts of individuals in Dublin taking up cycling." The other clue is that they used census data. No idea what they did really though.

FURTHER EDIT: From the Irish Times:

According to the report’s authors, the study provides a scientific basis to support the general perception “that cycling in heavy traffic in Dublin can be scary, and hazardous”.

Well, I'd really like to know what their model was based on, but "cycling in heavy traffic in Dublin can be scary and hazardous" is quite an open statement. "Can be" doesn't mean "is generally", "Scary" is subjective.

Anyway, don't mean to be carping. Could well be a good bit of work, but it's all very opaque, even after looking at the abstract.

Doctor Bob

mr spuckler wrote: »

2nd edit: it costs $31.50 to see the science bit

The Journal has a PDF of the full article at the end: http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-to-work-study-3430971-Jun2017/?utm_source=shortlink

tomasrojo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The Journal has a PDF of the full article at the end: http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-to-work-study-3430971-Jun2017/?utm_source=shortlink

It seems to be assumption piled on assumption to make a model.

When you have proper empirical studies like the one done in Glasgow, this is rubbish in comparison the claims being made for what is just a model are really inflated. The Glasgow study also, as far as I can tell without reading it in detail, does separate the health of the entire population from the population of the cyclists themselves, by following many thousands of cyclists for years. Think it was an older bunch of cyclists though. The claim that the net benefit is negative for men 20-29 can be empirically tested anyway. Might be good to have the model to generate scenarios to test in the real world, but making out that it is the same as the real world is very misleading.

tomasrojo

The journal headline "Cycling to work is only healthy if the government makes it safe, new study says" is also completely misleading. The only population group that arguably that claim applies to, based on the model, is men between 20 and 29.

Doctor Bob

tomasrojo wrote: »

The only population group that arguably that claim applies to, based on the model, is men between 20 and 29.

The group least likely to be attracted to segregated infrastructure. [/hunch]

Chuchote

Interview in TheJournal with Colm Ryder of Dublin Cycling Campaign

http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-dangerous-dublin-3433128-Jun2017/

“A lot of people will not get on bikes,” he said, “because they perceive it’s dangerous to cycle in the city”.
Ryder greatly supports having separate, dedicated cycle lanes on the quays and around the city centre, as this would encourage more people to get on the bike instead of driving, he said:
"We definitely want more and better quality routes so it can be ensured that cyclists stay safe around the city."

Tenzor07

Chuchote wrote: »

Interview in TheJournal with Colm Ryder of Dublin Cycling Campaign
http://www.thejournal.ie/cycling-dangerous-dublin-3433128-Jun2017/

Uhh but they don't pay Road tax....

Chuchote

Email campaign in support of Option 7:

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/09/act-now-demand-cycling-for-all-ages-and-abilities-in-dublin/

CAMPAIGN: Dublin and Ireland needs fully segregated cycle routes to make cycling an everyday transport choice for people of all ages and abilities.

After the decision was again recently delayed, later in June, Dublin City Council is expected to choose between two options for the Liffey Cycle Route and it is also to decide between carrying on with a sub-standard Clontarf to City Centre Cycle Route or reviewing the project to make it fully segregated.

Your voice can make a difference — people like you have already started to change the opinion of those in power — we just need to keep pushing harder for higher-quality cycle route which will benefit the city, its people, its economy, and the environment.

We are asking you to:

Email your local councillors and ask them to: support the Liffey Cycle Route Option 7 (and reject Option 8) and support a two-way cycle path on the Clontarf to City Centre Cycle Route (and reject a plan to mix cycling with buses).
Email traffic@dublincity.ie and chiefexecutive@dublincity.ie on the Clontarf to City Centre Cycle Route only and tell them that it is unacceptable to mix cycling and buses in a unproven design which puts cycling safety and priority last.
Ask people you know to help make cycling safer and more attractive — even just to email one or two councillors or just chiefexecutive@dublincity.ie.

(snip)

I've emailed about the quays route, emailing my local councillors and the Traffic Committee members as well as the Dublin City Traffic and chief executive emails. Here's the Traffic Committee:

Ciarán Cuffe <ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie>, Paul Hand <phand@dublincity.ie>, Teresa Keegan <teresa.keegan@dublincity.ie>, Frank Kennedy <frank.kennedy@dublincity.ie>, Dr Paddy Smyth <paddy.smyth@dublincity.ie>, Paddy McCartan <cllrpatmccartan@gmail.com>, Deputy Lord Mayor Larry O’Toole <larry.otoole@dublincity.ie>, Ray McHugh <ray.mchugh@dublincity.ie, Jane Horgan-Jones <horganjones.jane@gmail.com>, Kieran Binchy <Kieran.Binchy@dublincity.ie>, Ciarán O’Moore <ciaran.omoore@dublincity.ie>, Mannix Flynn <mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie>

RobertFoster

So Colm Ryder is for dedicated cycling infrastructure on the quays, and Brendan Carr wants private vehicles to remain on the quays. Is there a Bill Busman or Tommy Taximan we can hear from to complete the nominative determinism on the subject?

check_six

RobertFoster wrote: »

So Colm Ryder is for dedicated cycling infrastructure on the quays, and Brendan Carr wants private vehicles to remain on the quays. Is there a Bill Busman or Tommy Taximan we can hear from to complete the nominative determinism on the subject?

Steven Seagal could joint-twist his way to more rights for his feathered ice-cream snatching friends?

plodder

RobertFoster wrote: »

So Colm Ryder is for dedicated cycling infrastructure on the quays, and Brendan Carr wants private vehicles to remain on the quays. Is there a Bill Busman or Tommy Taximan we can hear from to complete the nominative determinism on the subject?

Don't forget Johnny Walker now..

Annie get your Run

Chuchote wrote: »

Email campaign in support of Option 7:

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/09/act-now-demand-cycling-for-all-ages-and-abilities-in-dublin/



I've emailed about the quays route, emailing my local councillors and the Traffic Committee members as well as the Dublin City Traffic and chief executive emails. Here's the Traffic Committee:

Ciarán Cuffe <ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie>, Paul Hand <phand@dublincity.ie>, Teresa Keegan <teresa.keegan@dublincity.ie>, Frank Kennedy <frank.kennedy@dublincity.ie>, Dr Paddy Smyth <paddy.smyth@dublincity.ie>, Paddy McCartan <cllrpatmccartan@gmail.com>, Deputy Lord Mayor Larry O’Toole <larry.otoole@dublincity.ie>, Ray McHugh <ray.mchugh@dublincity.ie, Jane Horgan-Jones <horganjones.jane@gmail.com>, Kieran Binchy <Kieran.Binchy@dublincity.ie>, Ciarán O’Moore <ciaran.omoore@dublincity.ie>, Mannix Flynn <mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie>

oh god, the last round with some of the replies I got have ground me down - I need to gather some resolve to do it again!!! I think I'll set up a new email account just for this type of stuff so I don't have to read the replies

Chuchote

Further - thanks to Ciaran Cuffe's website, email addresses and phone numbers of north inner city councillors - especially apposite for those living in their constituencies:

North Inner City Councillors on Dublin City Council

Boylan, Janice, Sinn Féin, janice.boylan@dublincity.ie, 085 224 1322

Burke, Christy, Independent christy.burke@dublincity.ie

Cuffe, Ciarán, Green Party, ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie, 087 265 2075

Fagan, Gaye, Sinn Féin gaye.fagan@dublincity.ie, 089 208 6125

Gannon, Gary, gary.gannon@socialdemocrats.ie, 086 178 0149

McAdam, Ray, Fine Gael, raymcadam@gmail.com, 086 847 1720

Ring, Nial, Independendent, nialring@eircom.net, 087 248 9372

Ryan, Eilis, Workers Party, eilis.ryan@dublincity.ie, 086 310 8553

or as an email round with name, party and email address for sending:

Janice Boylan Sinn Féin <janice.boylan@dublincity.ie>, Christy Burke Independent  <christy.burke@dublincity.ie>, Ciarán Cuffe Green Party <ciaran.cuffe@dublincity.ie>, Gaye Fagan Sinn Féin <gaye.fagan@dublincity.ie>, Gary Gannon Social Democrat <gary.gannon@socialdemocrats.ie>, Ray McAdam Fine Gael <raymcadam@gmail.com>,  Nial Ring Independent <nialring@eircom.net>, Eilis Ryan Workers Party <eilis.ryan@dublincity.ie>

Chuchote

Not strictly cycling-related - except that the idea that school playing fields are the only way for Irish kids to be fit and healthy…

(Not personally disagreeing that these greedy lousers shouldn't be able to sell the fields.)

Letter from Leslie Lawless of Dublin 4 in today's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/religious-orders-and-selling-land-1.3114102

If all the religious schools in the towns and cities of Ireland were to simultaneously sell their playing fields and other sporting facilities for housing development, as they are apparently entitled to do, chaos would ensue as the schoolchildren of Ireland would be immediately deprived of the resources to keep healthy and fit. Perhaps we need a national study of the vulnerabilities in Irish society in the areas of health, education and social services resulting from many decades of allowing religious orders to control key aspects of society.

Chuchote

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/world-s-first-bicycle-ride-took-place-200-years-ago-1.3112354?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

World’s first bicycle ride took place 200 years ago
On June 12th 1817, a German inventor had a spin around Mannheim on his ‘dandyhorse’

Derek Scally

Little is known about the world’s first bicycle ride, 200 years ago on June 12th, 1817. Mannheim in southwestern Germany, and local aristocrat Baron Karl von Drais – then 32 – appeared in public, sitting on a wooden frame, with two wheels and an upholstered arm rest.
Using his home-made “laufmaschine” (running machine), later dubbed a “dandyhorse” or “draisine” after its inventor, the baron managed a 14km trip in less than hour. Faster than the post coach, this was a one-man mobility revolution.
“It’s a horse! A horse that eats nothing and isn’t a horse,” exclaims an alarmed housemaid onstage Mannheim’s Capitol Theater in a new musical reimagining that maiden trip in 1817.

magicbastarder

the baron managed a 14km trip in less than hour.

he should have tucked into a more aero position.

AndrewJRenko

Chuchote wrote: »

Not strictly cycling-related - except that the idea that school playing fields are the only way for Irish kids to be fit and healthy…

(Not personally disagreeing that these greedy lousers shouldn't be able to sell the fields.)

Letter from Leslie Lawless of Dublin 4 in today's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/religious-orders-and-selling-land-1.3114102

I think this issue is being overplayed. At Clonkeen, there are another fine set of pitches at Meadowvale about 3 minutes walk from the school, used by Cuala GAA after hours. The school is a shadow of its former self in terms of student numbers, so afaik, the current playing fields are not heavily used.

We need more houses, lots of houses.

Chuchote

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I think this issue is being overplayed. At Clonkeen, there are another fine set of pitches at Meadowvale about 3 minutes walk from the school, used by Cuala GAA after hours. The school is a shadow of its former self in terms of student numbers, so afaik, the current playing fields are not heavily used.

We need more houses, lots of houses.

May I disagree? There are houses, lots of houses, lying empty; some of them derelict and others in perfectly good condition. What there isn't is any means of prising them free of their owners' gripping fingers to allow others to live in them.

Chuchote

Got a nice reply back from Cllr Gaye Fagan to my email on Option 8 and the Clontarf cycle track:

Thanks for your email [Chuchote], it's not often we received a light hearted and effective email I enjoyed reading it and I will take your concerns onboard

Muahahaha

Anyone hear George Hooks latest on cycling during the week? He had some Danish professor on who revealed that Copenhagen now has more cyclists entering the city every day than motorists. By Hooks standards it was reasonably balanced. He still had to ask if the Danish tax and licence bikes though :rolleyes: