Journalism and cycling

Pinch Flat

average_runner wrote: »

Your logic doesn't quite work here, people need their car for various reasons:

1) No showers in work, so can't cycle then.
2) People need a car at weekends for hobbies etc, going to play golf, cant really do that on a bike.
3) Alot of people have to do shopping in one go, need a car for that also.
4) Kids need to go to sport activities, when more than one kid your going from A to B in a certain time frame, need car for that, cant bring 3 kids on a bike from Dundrum to Portmarnock for a hockey match.
3) Alot of city people aren't from Dublin, so they like to go home at the weekend, your not going to cycle 200k on a friday night

We've been conditioned to think that life without a car in unimaginable. Granted, cycling doesn't suit everyone in every scenario, but there's plenty of situations that it does.

Case in point - our GAA club is beside a soccer club, Saturday mornings are mayhem - people drive the kids to sports, park the car wherever they like, which frequently means on the road, double yellow, path, bike lane. I know these people - 99% of them could walk or cycle - it's a maximum one kilometer for them. But they insist on driving and them complaining about the lack of parking. In fact, one of the soccer pitches has been removed and converted into a car park - effective facilitation of car dependency.

Agreed that a car is the most suitable option for ferrying kids to matches - I do this myself - but car pooling and rotating the runs can lower the amount of times a car has to be used.

Cycling to work is achievable for a lot of people - given that over 50% of journeys by car are less than 2km and another huge chunk in the 5km range. Showers wouldn't be needed for these distances - they are a few minutes on a bike. I've has a shower in a previous job, none in the current one - it does make life easier, but showering before I cycle and having access to a bathroom goes a long way.

Lots of everyday activities can be undertaken by bike - small errands to the shops, a cargo bike will take a full shop easily.

Chuchote

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Lots of everyday activities can be undertaken by bike - small errands to the shops, a cargo bike will take a full shop easily.

I can do a full shop on an old Dawes, don't need a cargo bike. Not for a family of four, but if a family of four means at least two are likely to be able to do a good-sized shop each.

Deedsie wrote: »

It's relatively easy in Dublin but down the country a car is required unfortunately.

Is it, though? Most of my country friends live within 5km of shops and schools and could cycle to them and to the pub or cafe. They have cars, but they could cycle if necessary.

Rural ambulances are too often hopeless, and it's the norm for neighbours to fill in for each other if kids have to go to hospital. That kind of give-and-take is the norm in most rural areas; when living outside Dublin I've often picked up groceries on my bike for people stuck at home, and in return had lifts to the pub. There are school buses for rural kids (thanks, Donogh O'Malley).

On the other hand, there is often worse driving in country places; I was emailing back and forth with a friend in west Cork and expressed surprise that he - a very very green person - drove for short journeys with no hefting to do, rather than cycling. Next day he pulled out the bike and was knocked arse over tip by a young lad driving recklessly around a corner.

average_runner

Chuchote wrote: »

I got rid of my car at a point when money was particularly tight; I worked out that it cost me €2,000 a year including tax, insurance, petrol, service, new tyres, NCT, etc; I hadn't factored in parking. The car was a gift, so there were no repayments, nor any replacement cost, to consider.

According to the AA, the average cost of running a family car is currently €11,000.

Now that I don't have a car, I don't think in terms of what I'd do if… But if the kid split his head I'd probably call an ambulance or a taxi, which could go faster through bus lanes than a private car could.

An ambulance, you be waiting mate and its a disgrace that you would call an ambulance for something like that.

If you damage the taxi it will cost you

average_runner

cdaly_ wrote: »

You forgot the 4000 per year depreciation on the cost of the car.

Ambulance if urgent, taxi if less so.


Nope. But you would be less likely to do a full week's shop in one go as it becomes more convenient to go to the shops on the bike than the car. You can get trailers which will let you get the kids around, will double up as shopping trailers and, as the kids grow, they have their own bikes.

Its important to do the shop in one go, it gives me more time with my kids when I get home, means I can spend time with them doing things that are important for them, like sports, education, park walks, to the allotment, etc. Bringing them to a supermarket is not high on my list.

Road is no place for a 3 year old or even a 6 year old. Seeing how cyclists and drivers behave on them
Trailers are exactly safe so kids. Als

Chips Lovell

I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.

mcgratheoin

Deedsie wrote: »

We have many citizens who need a car to get around, the elderly, the young, the disabled and vulnerable etc.

I don't think anyone's disputing this, but what seems to happen is that everybody who drives is completely convinced that they absolutely need a car and couldn't survive without one. The person who drives their kids 1km down the road to a football match might tell you they need the car to bring their kids to Portmarnock (which is true and fair enough) but having the car for necessary trips turns into frequently using the car for unnecessary trips.

As for my own anecdotal experience, we have one car which my wife uses for commuting (50km against traffic, mostly motorway) and I usually cycle. When my sister-in-law goes on holidays she leaves her car with us, making us a two car family. If I'm at home when my wife is working I then find myself driving the 1.5km to the shop rather than walking or cycling down the road.

average_runner wrote:

When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?

What would you do if your kid needed to go to the hospital and your partner was gone in the car? Is it your suggestion that every household needs 2 cars?

average_runner

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I don't think anyone's disputing this, but what seems to happen is that everybody who drives is completely convinced that they absolutely need a car and couldn't survive without one. The person who drives their kids 1km down the road to a football match might tell you they need the car to bring their kids to Portmarnock (which is true and fair enough) but having the car for necessary trips turns into frequently using the car for unnecessary trips.

As for my own anecdotal experience, we have one car which my wife uses for commuting (50km against traffic, mostly motorway) and I usually cycle. When my sister-in-law goes on holidays she leaves her car with us, making us a two car family. If I'm at home when my wife is working I then find myself driving the 1.5km to the shop rather than walking or cycling down the road.



What would you do if your kid needed to go to the hospital and your partner was gone in the car? Is it your suggestion that every household needs 2 cars?

The car is always where the kids are. If my wife needs a car, she takes the inlaws car.

WindomEarle

average_runner wrote: »

The car is always where the kids are.

Will your kids melt in the rain or get blown away by the wind or something?

average_runner

WindomEarle wrote: »

Will your kids melt in the rain or get blown away by the wind or something?

Nope, but I am not a parent that like to keep the kids stuck inside a house, so I would usually head off somewhere with them, usually outside Dublin at the weekend.

tomasrojo

average_runner wrote: »

Car hire for a weekend is over 40 euro not counting petrol. You also have to get the car back at a certain hour and then make your way back home from there.

I would spend a 1000 a year on fuel roughly and 250 on tax, 400 on insurance and 400 max on car service. That's 2050, car hire for me would come in at 2080 a year before fuel.

When you a family a car is essential, what do you do when the kid has a split head and needs to go to Crumlin hospital? Rent a car, tell him to cycle a bike, wait for a bus/luas.?

I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.

tomasrojo

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.

You know this already, I'm sure. But if you live near a GoCar base it would be way cheaper just to join that.

EDIT: Probably! I don't know your driving patterns, obviously!

tomasrojo

I have a folding bike, so car hire is a good bit easier with that.

average_runner

tomasrojo wrote: »

I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.

Where you hiring it from? We would need it from Friday to Monday morning every weekend. Long drives every second weekend, around 300k

tomasrojo

Why do you need the car for three days solid though? The idea of GoCar and the like is you just rent for the time you're using it.

Most car journeys we do are inside Dublin, and only if we're all travelling and public transport involves too many changes. If I have to do shopping, I use the cargo bike or one of the trailers. You can carry a lot that way. I got one of the kids's beds home from Ikea that way, and various rugs and mattresses and the like.

We don't go for long drives overall. If we're going to another part of the country that isn't another city, I hire a car (Avis or the like, not GoCar; their model doesn't suit those journeys), but mostly I get public transport.

Not saying that it's idea for everyone, but I like it. I especially like the extra money it frees up. Fair enough, if you like doing long journeys outside Dublin every weekend, it's cheaper to own a car, I'm sure.

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

I spend about €500 a year on car rental, in total. I have two children.

how much is the rental on the kids?

PeadarCo

Jep Gambardella wrote:

I've lived in Dublin without a car. It's doable, since 95 percent of the time you don't need it, but it does make the remaining 5 percent a pain in the nuts. I may only drive it around once a week but I'd never go without one again.

+1 to this. Also the 11k figure for running a car sounds quiet high. It would be interesting to see the breakdown but based on my own expenses I'd have to assume fuel costs are a big part of the estimate. If your not using a car daily you'd cut down on the biggest cumulative cost.

Even though in my own case a large part of my yearly car milage is due to me driving to different races and sportives around the country.

Chuchote

AA on car costs:

http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/cost-of-motoring/cost-of-motoring-2015.aspx

PeadarCo

Thanks interesting. I found the figure for garage/parking costs quiet high but its the only thing unusual that stuck out. Still l think for anyone who cycles to work and uses public transport for other journeys the cost of having a car would be lower than what's there. But that's the bike giving you savings even if you don't ditch the car.

magicbastarder

they're quoting over €11 per day on "Garage/Parking/Misc. expenses".
what do they define as miscellaneous expenses? maintenance is an obvious one, but my near ten year old car costs me a few hundred a year in maintenance. less than €500 anyway. if people are paying to park at work, that €4000 is over €18 a day in parking expenses, based on a 220 day year.

RandomAccess

So Uber would fix Dublin?

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

they're quoting over €11 per day on "Garage/Parking/Misc. expenses".
what do they define as miscellaneous expenses? maintenance is an obvious one, but my near ten year old car costs me a few hundred a year in maintenance. less than €500 anyway. if people are paying to park at work, that €4000 is over €18 a day in parking expenses, based on a 220 day year.

Someone told me that some or all civil servants have free or highly subsidised parking in Dublin city centre…?

magicbastarder

i certainly mentioned at one point that there was a theory going round years ago that the plan to levy BIK on city centre parking spaces was shot down by civil servants who would have lost out on that.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i certainly mentioned at one point that there was a theory going round years ago that the plan to levy BIK on city centre parking spaces was shot down by civil servants who would have lost out on that.

BIK?

Chips Lovell

Chuchote wrote: »

Someone told me that some or all civil servants have free or highly subsidised parking in Dublin city centre…?

Some. Definitely not all.

Chuchote wrote: »

BIK?

Benefit in Kind

RandomAccess

magicbastarder wrote: »

i certainly mentioned at one point that there was a theory going round years ago that the plan to levy BIK on city centre parking spaces was shot down by civil servants who would have lost out on that.

The spaces remain available to them after they retire, for weekend use at least.
I was initially surprised to hear it, but when it comes to government such surprise doesn't linger.

buffalo

TDs and Senators have parking for life at Leinster House, that was news to me:

the perk of free parking for life for all TDs and Senators, regardless of how long they ever served – is met by surface and underground cat parks to the front and rear of the building.

http://www.dublininquirer.com/2016/10/25/thomas-lets-consider-moving-oireachtas-kildare-street/

tomasrojo

That AA thing is interesting. Band A is a small car, I guess? I would have assumed myself that running a small car, not used for much more than a commute, would be about €5k, which isn't far off what is in their table.

(You get free parking in Dublin City Council parking zones when you use GoCar too, which takes care of a lot of the biggest cost in the table for Band A, and you don't have to deal with repairs or NCTs or anything like that. It's pretty handy. But it isn't outside your house, it's not suitable for a daily commute, and journeys are, by their nature, way less spontaneous.)

tomasrojo

Deedsie wrote: »

This week we had complaints about the amount of traffic on the M50 and Irish Rail being in financial turmoil. I didnt hear one person advocating for rail as and option for transporting goods rather than trucks? Small bits of cop on here and there and proper investment in large capital projects (Metro North&South and DART Expansion) would sort out these issues.

Yeah, I think we're really going to regret not going with the DART expansion.

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

Someone told me that some or all civil servants have free or highly subsidised parking in Dublin city centre…?

Some do but it depends on the location. I know one area in Dublin 2 which has a small car park. Space is assigned based on seniority in service. The waiting list is currently 18 years for new entrants (assuming they do not resign/relocate/are moved).

NiallBoo

tomasrojo wrote: »

That AA thing is interesting. Band A is a small car, I guess?

It's a very small car. Something like a Smart car.

For reference, a yaris is a typical B-segment car, the Golf is a typical C-segment.

That said, these sometimes get fudged. The newer minis are sometimes listed as A-segment, even though they're more like a C. Obviously B-segment cars also creep in there too. In reality, new a-segment cars are very rare.

Chuchote

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Some do but it depends on the location. I know one area in Dublin 2 which has a small car park. Space is assigned based on seniority in service. The waiting list is currently 18 years for new entrants (assuming they do not resign/relocate/are moved).

Wrong, wronger, wrongest. This is the kind of thing that buggers up the civil service when they look for a raise, the fact that there are these secret perks turns ordinary working people against them.

The GPO used to have a gigantic bicycle park in its centre, which could hold something like 300 bikes, and had security men posted at the entrance; you went in by cycling down a ramp in Prince's Street. I wonder what's there now; car parking, or maybe they've built over it?

Today's story is the Corpo highlighting the fact that they have taken away a rake of bikes abandoned on parking racks:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/council-removes-126-abandoned-bikes-from-dublin-city-centre-1.2845374

Dublin City Council removed more than 120 abandoned bicycles from parking stands, sign poles, fences and other structures around the city centre over a six month period this year.
The council said 126 bicycles (or part bikes) have been removed between March and September, including eight bikes that were removed from Drury Street car park.
A report from the the council earlier this year said the demand for on-street cycle parking within the city is growing as the number of cyclists increase.

brocbrocach

Chuchote wrote: »

Wrong, wronger, wrongest. This is the kind of thing that buggers up the civil service when they look for a raise, the fact that there are these secret perks turns ordinary working people against them.

He's just after saying that very very few civil servants get this 'secret perk'. Perhaps the same proportion as get parking in private sector? Maybe you're paying too much attention to the O'Brien media.
The government insists on having their offices in the most affluent streets in this country. Many civil servants, by economic necessity, live far away from these offices. Many are paid well below Average Industrial Wage and can't afford parking if it's not provided. Many bus it, some cycle, very few drive in and have a space.

Fian

Chuchote wrote: »

Wrong, wronger, wrongest. This is the kind of thing that buggers up the civil service when they look for a raise, the fact that there are these secret perks turns ordinary working people against them.

I would have thought many employers provide parking for their staff? Is this really a "secret perq"? Particularly bearing in mind it is only extended to staff with 18 years loyalty to the employer? I can think of more pressing things to get annoyed about tbh. I don't get hot and bothered that Intel provide staff parking either.

Chuchote

Fian wrote: »

I would have thought many employers provide parking for their staff? Is this really a "secret perq"? Particularly bearing in mind it is only extended to staff with 18 years loyalty to the employer? I can think of more pressing things to get annoyed about tbh. I don't get hot and bothered that Intel provide staff parking either.

Benefit-in-kind?

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

The GPO used to have a gigantic bicycle park in its centre, which could hold something like 300 bikes, and had security men posted at the entrance; you went in by cycling down a ramp in Prince's Street. I wonder what's there now; car parking, or maybe they've built over it?

when was this? i used to be in and out of the GPO in 99/2000 and it was mainly car parking by then.

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

Wrong, wronger, wrongest. This is the kind of thing that buggers up the civil service when they look for a raise, the fact that there are these secret perks turns ordinary working people against them...

Well in fairness I'd estimate that less than 5% of staff at the location have access to a space.

I'd be more concerned about the provision of fully expensed company cars in other sectors.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

when was this? i used to be in and out of the GPO in 99/2000 and it was mainly car parking by then.

1980s; at that time the Secretary of P7T used to cycle in, as did most of the staff.

Chuchote

http://www.thejournal.ie/parking-court-galway-disqualified-3050507-Oct2016/

A Galway judge is handing out driving bans to motorists who don't turn up to court for parking offences
Just under 70 total bans were handed out by Judge Marie Keane.

A DISTRICT COURT judge has started to hand out driving bans to motorists who fail to attend court for parking offences.
At Judge Marie Keane’s latest quarterly ‘Parking Court’, which was held at the end of September at Galway Courthouse, almost 70 drivers who failed to appear before her in person, were put off the road for between three and six months and faced fines of up to €350.

I hope these were parking in cycle lanes.

Meanwhile, from an interview with Bogota's cycle-lane-building mayor:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/oct/17/enrique-penalosa-mayor-bogota-colombia-bus-traffic-un-habitat#img-4

Cities that move by bicycle and public transport are more democratic, more egalitarian. In a “developing country”, a protected bikeway is not just a way of keeping the cyclist safe; it is a symbol that shows that a citizen riding a $50 bicycle is equally important to one driving a $50,000 car.

Fian

Chuchote wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/parking-court-galway-disqualified-3050507-Oct2016/



A Galway judge is handing out driving bans to motorists who don't turn up to court for parking offences
Just under 70 total bans were handed out by Judge Marie Keane.

A DISTRICT COURT judge has started to hand out driving bans to motorists who fail to attend court for parking offences.
At Judge Marie Keane’s latest quarterly ‘Parking Court’, which was held at the end of September at Galway Courthouse, almost 70 drivers who failed to appear before her in person, were put off the road for between three and six months and faced fines of up to €350.

I hope these were parking in cycle lanes.

Meanwhile, from an interview with Bogota's cycle-lane-building mayor:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/oct/17/enrique-penalosa-mayor-bogota-colombia-bus-traffic-un-habitat#img-4

Will all be overturned on appeal though. Maybe even a JR instead since she proceeded in their absence and went on to apply a ban. That would cost the taxpayer significant legal costs to no proper purpose.

Disqualification is not an appropriate penalty for a parking violation imo, especially without hearing the drivers version of events.

Chuchote

Fian wrote: »

Will all be overturned on appeal though. Maybe even a JR instead since she proceeded in their absence and went on to apply a ban. That would cost the taxpayer significant legal costs to no proper purpose.

Disqualification is not an appropriate penalty for a parking violation imo, especially without hearing the drivers version of events.

Yeah, our judges seem to have gone all strange all of a sudden.

Skrynesaver

Fian wrote: »

Disqualification is not an appropriate penalty for a parking violation imo, especially without hearing the drivers version of events.

Parking the thing in a responsible manner is part of driving safely.

Fian

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Parking the thing in a responsible manner is part of driving safely.

I agree, Just don't think it is sufficient to warrant disqualification.

Disqualification is very rarely applied to a speeding offence, unless it is particularly dangerous. Similarly careless driving or driving without reasonable consideration will not normally attract disqualification. Dangerous driving you could usually (not always) expect to escape disqualification unless you had previous. Same with no insurance.

Parking offence is far less dangerous than any of the above. It causes inconvenience rather than danger generally. disqualification seems excessive.

Chuchote

The Examiner's piece on cycling (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paul-rouse/freedom-machines-how-ireland-embraced-cycling-427864.html) misspells Arjay's name (it's Mecredy). Does any newspaper employ subs now?

Carawaystick

Fian wrote: »

I agree, Just don't think it is sufficient to warrant disqualification.

Disqualification is very rarely applied to a speeding offence, unless it is particularly dangerous. Similarly careless driving or driving without reasonable consideration will not normally attract disqualification. Dangerous driving you could usually (not always) expect to escape disqualification unless you had previous. Same with no insurance.

Parking offence is far less dangerous than any of the above. It causes inconvenience rather than danger generally. disqualification seems excessive.

I doubt evidence as to who actually parked the vehicles was given, rather the registered owner was prosecuted. So Disqualification from driving absent evidence of any actual driving is a fairly perverse punishment.

Chuchote

Today's Irish Times letters:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/merrion-gates-solution-1.2853590

Merrion Gates solution
Sir, – As someone who has been stuck in long traffic jams on either side of the Merrion Gates in Dublin over the years it is with a fair degree of frustration (snip)
The solution now being proposed by the National Transport Authority [involving an underpass, a new road and bridge] (News, October 26th) makes no sense whatsoever, especially when there is an objectively justifiable solution in placing a new road alongside the strand running from Poolbeg to Booterstown.
And whereas the usual suspects will cry foul and claim that this is merely the eastern by-pass solution, perhaps they might consider the following: both the Croisette in Cannes and the Promenade des Anglais in Nice have four traffic lanes beside the coast.(snip)
A new strand road, adjacent to the current, if tastefully done would add value to the area, and put an end to the Merrion Gate impasse.
Additionally, it would allow for a cycle lane and pedestrian walkway, and more importantly better flood defences. A Dutch civil engineer would equally point out that it doesn’t present an insurmountable engineering challenge either.(snip)
NIALL NELIGAN
Sandymount

I'm not sure if this writer is envisaging a road raised above the sea level, since the tide would top any existing road - last week the seaside path was covered in sand and seaweed in some places.

I suspect that the residents of Strand Road mightn't be happy with this idea.

And would such a road affect the brackish marsh that is the Booterstown Slobs, the nature reserve?

Chuchote

http://irishcycle.com/2016/11/07/cyclists-safety-best-addressed-by-educational-campaigns-ross/

Minister Shane Ross has said he has no plans for legislation to cover what the Fianna Fail spokesman for Dublin calls an “urgent need to address cycle safety”.

Despite high-level meetings between the Department of Transport and the Stayin’ Alive at 1.5 campaign, there’s no plan for a safe overtaking distance law.

New or improved infrastructure is hardly mentioned a response from Ross, showing he is continuing having the department focused a RSA-style approach, rather than being focused on the vision outlined in the National Cycle Policy of making our roads and streets cycling friendly.

tomasrojo

Shane Ross says educational campaign needed for cyclist safety

I don't think he's even saying that. He says he's not going to do anything and the RSA are doing a great job, and their approach is the best approach. This handily ties in with his general approach of never making any decisions about anything.

endagibson

I'm not convinced that Shane Ross knows that he is a minister.

Chuchote

I'm really disappointed in him. I'd thought that Shane Ross was one of the good guys.

Meanwhile, a hilarious blog:

https://rebelbreeze.wordpress.com/2016/11/07/defending-dublin-from-japanese-invasion/

JAPANESE INVASION
November 7, 2016 by rebelbreeze
Manager of Dublin City Council Road Management Department

Dear Sir/ Madam,

Please allow me to extend my heartfelt thanks for your work on the city roads and more than that, the ingenuity displayed by your staff. Dublin and to an extent the whole of Ireland is being kept safe, thanks to the work of your Department, from Japanese Army invasion. Or any other cycle-born troops.

I must admit I was not expecting to find that people working for the local authority had studied the Imperial Japanese Army assault on Singapore in 1942 and who had learned from it. If only there were more like your staff in the rest of Ireland! But no, complacency rules. “Ah, sure it’ll do” is the order of the day…

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

This handily ties in with his general approach of never making any decisions about anything.

As a cyclist, I think his reluctance to actually do anything for fear of criticism is him making a highly effective minister for Transport. Long may it continue.