Journalism and cycling

I love Sean nos

rubadub wrote: »

I certainly don't think it is, but the way he said it he seemed absolutely certain and so should be questioned more and made an example of.

It would be good if there was some official & public site you could question stuff like this, having say a judge or some government official forced to reply and publicly say the Garda was incorrect. He should be repreimanded.

Maybe if lots of people asked various authorities like the RSA on twitter it would get attention.

In a normal organisation, certainly. But the Garda Síochána are not a normal organisation:

• The Morris Tribunal - investigating shenanigans in Donegal.
• The Smithwick Tribunal - investigating collusion with the IRA in murdering RUC officers.
• Kieran Boylan - protecting an informant as he deals drugs.
• Maurice McCabe - whistleblowing on penalty points scandal and the mishandling of serious crimes.
• GSOC - bugging of the very people who are supposed to investigate them.
• Smearing of Maurice McCabe.
• Money going missing from Garda stations.
• 1,000,000 non-existent breath tests.
• 1,500,000 incorrectly issued summons.
• Fraud at Templemore.

That's what I can recall. There may be others that I've missed. Remember, this is the police force of our country. The above is not the first draft of a script from a TV show.

A senior office not knowing the law and displaying such on the airwaves is small potatoes.

magicbastarder

also, many gardai would not distinguish much between words like 'should', 'must', 'are required to', etc.

tomasrojo

https://twitter.com/DaleCalkins/status/879768319045193728

"Collides with".

As discussed upthread IIRC.

Annie get your Run

Not sure if this is the right place for this but probably doesn't warrant a thread of its own. I emailed the RSA recently asking if they'd consider putting cycle specific safety messages on the back of their back pack covers, things like 'Give 1.5M when passing' 'Slow Down' 'Please pass safely' etc, you get the picture. In the email I made reference to a recent incident where I'd had to escape to a ditch to avoid a close pass all while wearing hi vis, helmet and having lights on my bike. This is the reply I received.

Thank you for your email and you suggestion in relation to messaging for the RSA Hi Vis material and your suggestions in relation to Cycle safety. We will keep you suggestion on file.

The aim of the Road Safety Authority (RSA) is to ensure that all road users develop safe behaviours and appropriate attitudes to the use of our roads. To do this we look to impart knowledge and the appropriate skills to road users as they move through life. The RSA’s current policy is to deliver road user education and awareness in a cumulative approach up to third level. Educational resources have been developed from preschool level up to third level and community level and these resources are delivered in schools and communities throughout the country.

In relation to the general area of cycle safety, we have undertaken a number of initiatives in this area - One of our more recent cycling campaigns is entitled ‘Cycle Safe – Cycle Smart’. This is the link to the website; http://rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Cycle-Smart-Cycle-Safe/. It visits the important issues such as; not of having working lights, and the merits of wearing high visibility garments.

We have also produced a Cycling Booklet which is a valuable resource to cyclists entitled ‘Cycle Safety’. This is the website link to this site; http://rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Cycle%20Safety%20A5%20v4.pdf; It also addresses the subject of the correct lighting requirements for bicycles and high visibility garments.

The Government’s Road Safety Strategy 2013 – 2020 at action 92 called for the introduction of Penalty points for cyclists and this is now in force. The following cycling offences each carry an ‘on the spot fine’ of €40:
1Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration.
2No front lamp or rear lamp lit during lighting-up hours on a pedal cycle.
3Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area.
4Cyclist proceeding past traffic lights when the red lamp is illuminated
5Cyclist proceeding past cycle traffic lights when red lamp is lit.
6Cyclist failing to stop for a School Warden sign.
7Cyclist proceeding beyond a stop line, barrier or half barrier at a railway level crossing, swing bridge or lifting bridge, when the red lamps are flashing.

It is then the function of An Garda Síochána to enforce these laws. In this regard, we have recently conducted an in-depth analysis of deaths on our roads between 2008 and 2012 and have communicated our findings to An Garda Síochána so that they can engaged in policing our roads a more intelligence-led way, i.e. engage in roads policing during the highest risk times of day and the highest risk days of the week etc. based upon credible Irish research.
I hope that this is of some assistance to you. If you feel that I can assist you further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,


I despair. I will respond to her when I've calmed down a bit. Any suggestions welcome!

P_1

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Drivel from an auto generated script

Frustrating I agree but this has all the hallmarks of an email arriving into a CRM queue that an agent who has targets hit just used a hot key on with a minor edit. Sadly you're not going to get much by emailing a general info@ address.

Might be an idea to edit out the name in the reply, it's not the person answering's fault their hands are tied etc

Annie get your Run

P_1 wrote: »

Frustrating I agree but this has all the hallmarks of an email arriving into a CRM queue that an agent who has targets hit just used a hot key on with a minor edit. Sadly you're not going to get much by emailing a general info@ address.

Might be an idea to edit out the name in the reply, it's not the person answering's fault their hands are tied etc

Their hands are tied? Did she even read my email? I got a reply initially to say thanks for my email and they were forwarding it on to the relevant department. That was the reply from the relevant department. I agree it's a copy and paste job as the first sentence where they say they'll keep my suggestion on file is in different font to the rest of the email.

As far as I can see their answer to a query regarding cyclist safety from a cyclist is that I need to do some training and wear hi viz. NOTHING about driver behavior in the reply, or driver training, or educating drivers on how to drive around cyclists. This is an agency run from public funding, it's not good enough.

AndrewJRenko

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Thank you for your email and you suggestion in relation to messaging for the RSA Hi Vis material and your suggestions in relation to Cycle safety. We will keep you suggestion on file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=303VMR0sRRw

P_1

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Their hands are tied? Did she even read my email? I got a reply initially to say thanks for my email and they were forwarding it on to the relevant department. That was the reply from the relevant department. I agree it's a copy and paste job as the first sentence where they say they'll keep my suggestion on file is in different font to the rest of the email.

As far as I can see their answer to a query regarding cyclist safety from a cyclist is that I need to do some training and wear hi viz. NOTHING about driver behavior in the reply, or driver training, or educating drivers on how to drive around cyclists. This is an agency run from public funding, it's not good enough.

I agree completely, however from being the poor sap stuck at the bottom of the food chain who had to write such replies in full knowledge that nothing would be done and you have no power to influence things, I just don't think it is fair to publicly name and shame someone.

Shocking reply from a customer service perspective.

Annie get your Run

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=303VMR0sRRw

yep, this was the first thing I thought of - I'd say there's no cabinet for mine though, straight into the bin with the cyclist suggestions !!!

Chiparus

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place for this but probably doesn't warrant a thread of its own. I emailed the RSA recently asking if they'd consider putting cycle specific safety messages on the back of their back pack covers, things like 'Give 1.5M when passing' 'Slow Down' 'Please pass safely' etc, you get the picture. In the email I made reference to a recent incident where I'd had to escape to a ditch to avoid a close pass all while wearing hi vis, helmet and having lights on my bike. This is the reply I received.

Thank you for your email and you suggestion in relation to messaging for the RSA Hi Vis material and your suggestions in relation to Cycle safety. We will keep you suggestion on file.

The aim of the Road Safety Authority (RSA) is to ensure that all road users develop safe behaviours and appropriate attitudes to the use of our roads. To do this we look to impart knowledge and the appropriate skills to road users as they move through life. The RSA’s current policy is to deliver road user education and awareness in a cumulative approach up to third level. Educational resources have been developed from preschool level up to third level and community level and these resources are delivered in schools and communities throughout the country.

In relation to the general area of cycle safety, we have undertaken a number of initiatives in this area - One of our more recent cycling campaigns is entitled ‘Cycle Safe – Cycle Smart’. This is the link to the website; http://rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Cycle-Smart-Cycle-Safe/. It visits the important issues such as; not of having working lights, and the merits of wearing high visibility garments.

We have also produced a Cycling Booklet which is a valuable resource to cyclists entitled ‘Cycle Safety’. This is the website link to this site; http://rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Cycle%20Safety%20A5%20v4.pdf; It also addresses the subject of the correct lighting requirements for bicycles and high visibility garments.

The Government’s Road Safety Strategy 2013 – 2020 at action 92 called for the introduction of Penalty points for cyclists and this is now in force. The following cycling offences each carry an ‘on the spot fine’ of €40:
1Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration.
2No front lamp or rear lamp lit during lighting-up hours on a pedal cycle.
3Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area.
4Cyclist proceeding past traffic lights when the red lamp is illuminated
5Cyclist proceeding past cycle traffic lights when red lamp is lit.
6Cyclist failing to stop for a School Warden sign.
7Cyclist proceeding beyond a stop line, barrier or half barrier at a railway level crossing, swing bridge or lifting bridge, when the red lamps are flashing.

It is then the function of An Garda Síochána to enforce these laws. In this regard, we have recently conducted an in-depth analysis of deaths on our roads between 2008 and 2012 and have communicated our findings to An Garda Síochána so that they can engaged in policing our roads a more intelligence-led way, i.e. engage in roads policing during the highest risk times of day and the highest risk days of the week etc. based upon credible Irish research.
I hope that this is of some assistance to you. If you feel that I can assist you further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,


I despair. I will respond to her when I've calmed down a bit. Any suggestions welcome!

Forward the email to the Director of communications

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

Chuchote

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place for this but probably doesn't warrant a thread of its own. I emailed the RSA recently asking if they'd consider putting cycle specific safety messages on the back of their back pack covers, things like 'Give 1.5M when passing' 'Slow Down' 'Please pass safely' etc, you get the picture. In the email I made reference to a recent incident where I'd had to escape to a ditch to avoid a close pass all while wearing hi vis, helmet and having lights on my bike. This is the reply I received.

Thank you for your email and you suggestion in relation to messaging for the RSA Hi Vis material and your suggestions in relation to Cycle safety. We will keep you suggestion on file.

(snip)

If you feel that I can assist you further, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards,


I despair. I will respond to her when I've calmed down a bit. Any suggestions welcome!

Dear Ms RSA

Thank you for your kind email and the news about penalty points for cyclists - I had heard about these, but it's awfully good of you to remind me, and I intend to put your letter up on my fridge.

In your final paragraph you offer to assist me further. Yes, please! It would be awfully decent of you to escalate my request for advertising material that would give people who might kill me with their two-ton metal vehicles pause for thought. I look forward to seeing this as part of your next advertising campaign.

With great gratitude, I remain,

Annie Getyour-Gunne

Annie get your Run

Chuchote wrote: »

Dear Ms RSA

Thank you for your kind email and the news about penalty points for cyclists - I had heard about these, but it's awfully good of you to remind me, and I intend to put your letter up on my fridge.

In your final paragraph you offer to assist me further. Yes, please! It would be awfully decent of you to escalate my request for advertising material that would give people who might kill me with their two-ton metal vehicles pause for thought. I look forward to seeing this as part of your next advertising campaign.

With great gratitude, I remain,

Annie Getyour-Gunne

Very restrained but dripping in sarcasm :)I like it!

tomasrojo

The RSA and the Gardaí are not part of the solution for now. I don't know what can be done about them, but I just mentally switch off every time they speak. My only interest in their attitude and pronouncements is limiting the damage they might cause.

Chuchote

How could we forget the real highlight of policing in Ireland - the Kerry Babies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Babies_case
http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/heart-of-darkness--the-kerry-babies-saga-30-years-later-265099.html

(One image I particularly remember from this is a senior garda making the woman they accused of infanticide sit on his knee during the questioning.)

CramCycle

Ireland, for such a small country, we really do have a knack for just the most disturbing of crimes, and even more disturbing handling of them.

Chuchote

Letter in The Irish Times from Kieran Ryan of Drumcondra, in response to the editorial:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/road-safety-looking-out-for-cyclists-1.3135774

In your editorial (June 26th), you have made a commendable appeal to all road users to improve their behaviour towards each other.
However, in your pursuit of balance you have perpetuated a false equivalence by apportioning equal responsibility to all road users.
The overwhelming burden of responsibility lies with drivers to not strike vulnerable road users with their mechanically propelled vehicles, not vice versa.
All of the hi-vis vests in the world will not make someone on a bicycle more visible to a driver who is looking at their phone. The best plastic cycling helmets on the market cannot protect a person from a driver who routinely breaks the speed limit. No amount of pedestrian or cyclist vigilance can account for the outrageous fact that we permit heavy goods vehicles with large, inherent blind spots to access our urban areas on a daily basis.
It is time for us to get serious in this debate. It is the duty of those who create the danger to look out for, and protect, the vulnerable.
Where drivers fail to adhere to that duty of care, we must hope that the Garda Síochána will intervene to remove them, and the danger that they bring, from our roads.

greenspurs

tomasrojo wrote: »

The RSA and the Gardaí are not part of the solution for now. I don't know what can be done about them, but I just mentally switch off every time they speak. My only interest in their attitude and pronouncements is limiting the damage they might cause.

I was only thinking that this morning as i drove to work... Another one of those RSA ads on the Radio...
"Switch on your fog lights in foggy conditions" ... "turn off your fog lights in clear conditions" ... "dont drink and drive".... " etc etc etc ....
Are road users that stupid ? (yes, i know some are..)
Or is it just a publicly funded organisation just going throught the motions and pretending they are actually doing something for/about road safety??
Spoofers..... :mad:

groovyg

greenspurs wrote: »

I was only thinking that this morning as i drove to work... Another one of those RSA ads on the Radio...
"Switch on your fog lights in foggy conditions" ... "turn off your fog lights in clear conditions" ... "dont drink and drive".... " etc etc etc ....
Are road users that stupid ? (yes, i know some are..)
Or is it just a publicly funded organisation just going throught the motions and pretending they are actually doing something for/about road safety??
Spoofers..... :mad:

I think your last night sums up - publicly funded organisation just going through the motions. People still drink and drive but the worst I am seeing these days is people glued to their phones.

groovyg

Ageing population will make roads more dangerous - judge

A judge in the case of an 84-year-old driver who hit a cyclist without realising has warned more elderly motorists will be involved in crashes as Ireland ages.
Judge SeDonnabh questioned whether Denis O’Driscoll should have been driving at all, even though he had been certified to do so, when he hit Olivia Walsh (40) on the main Bandon-to-Clonakilty Road in Co Cork .
O’Driscoll, a farmer from Cashelmore, Bandon, Co Cork, pleaded guilty at Cork Circuit Criminal Court to careless driving causing serious bodily harm to Ms Walsh at Ballinascarthy on the morning of June 2nd, 2016.
Insp Fergal Foley told the court that O’Driscoll had said he believed a fly had got into his eye, causing a momentary lapse in his concentration as he drove along the road.
O’Driscoll only realised he had hit Ms Walsh when he got home and his son saw the damage to his car. The court heard his son drove back along his route and came across the scene of the crash. He then notified gardao interview his father, who co-operated fully with their investigation.

Ms Walsh suffered serious injuries and was in an induced coma for two weeks following the collision. She spent a month in hospital and is still recovering. However, she has expressed a wish that O’Driscoll not be jailed for his offence, the court heard.
Defence counsel Dermot Sheehan SC said his client had not driven since the crash and will not drive again. “He has had 65 years of driving without any previous complaint.”
Judge Donnabh said it was a cause of concern to him that O’Driscoll could hit someone without realising. “Given his age, it’s questionable whether he should have been driving,” he said. “I don’t care whether he was certified to drive.”

greenspurs

groovyg wrote: »

I think your last night sums up - publicly funded organisation just going through the motions. People still drink and drive but the worst I am seeing these days is people glued to their phones.

And there are still a massive amount of people being caught drink driving every week...
Do they even release figures for those caught text driving ??

Pinch Flat

greenspurs wrote: »

I was only thinking that this morning as i drove to work... Another one of those RSA ads on the Radio...
"Switch on your fog lights in foggy conditions" ... "turn off your fog lights in clear conditions" ... "dont drink and drive".... " etc etc etc ....
Are road users that stupid ? (yes, i know some are..)
Or is it just a publicly funded organisation just going throught the motions and pretending they are actually doing something for/about road safety??
Spoofers..... :mad:

Unfortunately they are. I remember a piece in the media about 12 or 14 years or more ago - there was a big pile up on the N7 near Naas in heavy fog one morning. From memory there was a fatality in the tragedy.

Apparently the fog was not forecast. Cue one guy interviewed at the side of the road, it went along the lines of "it's a disgrace, no warning on the radio about this fog". So most people just kept driving at 120 km/hr, not being able to see beyond the end of their bonnets, until they hit something in front of them.

Don't ever underestimate the stupidity of Joe Public.

groovyg

I have to commend the guards for their work in this case.

Man refused to call hit-and-run suspect son over fears gardaí would listen in

Father's credit card used for travel ticket after fatal hit and run.

Johnny Jukebox

groovyg wrote: »

I have to commend the guards for their work in this case.

Man refused to call hit-and-run suspect son over fears gardaí would listen in

Father's credit card used for travel ticket after fatal hit and run.

Seconded.

And I hope he gets a long sentence where he can contemplate his misplaced loyalty at leisure.

Annie get your Run

groovyg wrote: »

I have to commend the guards for their work in this case.

Man refused to call hit-and-run suspect son over fears gardaí would listen in

Father's credit card used for travel ticket after fatal hit and run.

It is heartening to see the amount of work they put into both prosecuting the son and now the father. I guess it goes some way to answering our questions of what happens after someone is killed on the road.

mr spuckler

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Unfortunately they are. I remember a piece in the media about 12 or 14 years or more ago - there was a big pile up on the N7 near Naas in heavy fog one morning. From memory there was a fatality in the tragedy.

Apparently the fog was not forecast. Cue one guy interviewed at the side of the road, it went along the lines of "it's a disgrace, no warning on the radio about this fog". So most people just kept driving at 120 km/hr, not being able to see beyond the end of their bonnets, until they hit something in front of them.

Don't ever underestimate the stupidity of Joe Public.

i remember this from the time too.

some of the quotes are almost beyond belief...

The driver of the fire engine told the inquest he was unable to move into the overtaking lane on the motorway, even though the blue lights and sirens were in use, because traffic was moving too fast.

Gardaí said they found no skid marks at the scene, backing up a claim that the car which Ms Moyles was driving did not brake before impact.

The jury recommended that permanent overhead warning signs should be installed to warn of dangers ahead on all major roads.

mr spuckler

greenspurs wrote: »

And there are still a massive amount of people being caught drink driving every week...
Do they even release figures for those caught text driving ??

incredibly low numbers, given what we all see every day

Pinch Flat

mr spuckler wrote: »

i remember this from the time too.

some of the quotes are almost beyond belief...

Looked back over the google machine as well, pretty shocking stuff. Anyone that drives at 120km/hr in thick fog is probably as dense as the fog.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/speeding-in-fog-was-to-blame-for-motorway-mayhem-gardai-28970.html

plodder

Annie get your Run wrote: »

It is heartening to see the amount of work they put into both prosecuting the son and now the father. I guess it goes some way to answering our questions of what happens after someone is killed on the road.

True, and it's interesting to contrast the behaviour of the father in that case, with the son in this case below:

Irish Times: Ageing population will make roads more dangerous - judge

O’Driscoll only realised he had hit Ms Walsh when he got home and his son saw the damage to his car. The court heard his son drove back along his route and came across the scene of the crash. He then notified gardaí to interview his father, who co-operated fully with their investigation.

Chuchote

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Looked back over the google machine as well, pretty shocking stuff. Anyone that drives at 120km/hr in thick fog is probably as dense as the fog.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/speeding-in-fog-was-to-blame-for-motorway-mayhem-gardai-28970.html

To be fair, you sometimes run suddenly into fog on the Curragh, having been driving through clear air before. Crazy, though, and it's true, there should be (/have been?) fog warning signs hung over the motorway.

cjt156

Chuchote wrote: »

To be fair, you sometimes run suddenly into fog on the Curragh, having been driving through clear air before. Crazy, though, and it's true, there should be (/have been?) fog warning signs hung over the motorway.

I remember that morning; the fog can be like a wall in Kildare alright. But surely the hint to slow down is when you literally cannot see, regardless of any warning signs.

I also remember the press coverage.
"Killed by speeding drivers" was one headline, accompanied by a picture of the woman in question. The implication being that it was someone else's fault. The facts turned out to be inconsistent with that.