Journalism and cycling

Chuchote

Today's letters in The Irish Times; sweet Jesus.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/making-cycling-safer-1.2825754

Letter 1, from Kildare: basically "why build cycle lanes when the cyclists won't use them?"

Perhaps the enfolding lycra is too tight to allow blood to flow to the brain.

Letter 2:

Top marks to the Cycling Safety School scheme being run in schools around the country. We need more positive programmes like this.

Perhaps it needs a few more letters from people who cycle, citing their own experience of Irish cycle lanes?

Incidentally, a friend was wandering through a popular drinking street in Dublin city centre in the early hours recently - his work involves such wanderings - and said he saw street sweepers smashing bottles and leaving them for the street cleaning machine; he alleged that they found this easier than sweeping them up.

Chuchote

And today's letter, from Ivan Birthistle of Dublin 4

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-motorists-and-road-safety-1.2827348

Starts out well

The impression held by some motorists that they own the road may go some way to explaining the aggression of some drivers towards cyclists.

but unfortunately then goes on

Many, if not most, cyclists are also drivers, and so pay motor taxes and are perfectly entitled to use the road, especially when cycle paths are in a state of disrepair, or are non-existent. In fact, the payment of such taxes is a red herring since road building and maintenance are subsidised from the central exchequer.

and so on. I'm getting sick of this road tax argument being countenanced at all. Put the tax on the petrol and it will make it clearer that it's payment for pollution! But maybe I'm just sensitive because I can't make that argument, having scrapped my car.

It's a good letter overall. It's good to see any defence of cycling.

Pinch Flat

Chuchote wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this road tax argument being countenanced at all. Put the tax on the petrol and it will make it clearer that it's payment for pollution! But maybe I'm just sensitive because I can't make that argument, having scrapped my car.

The "road tax" argument seems to be a common thread in Ireland and other car-centric societies (I include our nearest neighbour the UK and the US in this bracket).

There seems to be a genuine belief among some road users, a sizable minority from my own conversations and anecdotes, that motorists pay for the roads and that other road users are there at the behest of the motorist. This seems to be particularly prevalent among younger drivers, who've grown up been ferried to an from school and graduated to a car at an early age - a lot in third level or in their first job when leaving school.

It's hard to see how this belief can be broken, but perhaps taxing fuel and lowering or eliminating "road tax" might be one way of breaking this link - the "polluter pays" principle.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

And today's letter, from Ivan Birthistle of Dublin 4

'ivan birthistle' is an anagram of 'inhibits travel'. hmm...

Pinch Flat

Just as an aside, the "road tax" terminology seems to be preferred by car manufacturers as well, reinforcing the link between the motorists and paying for the roads. Have a look at car adverts in the media and they almost universally refer to the running costs, CO2 emissions etc, then the "road tax" cost of the particular vehicle. Couple of random samples below. Why don't they refer to is as the correct term - motor tax?

https://www.toyota.ie/models/rav4/index.json

http://www.hyundai.ie/car/ix20 (Click "pricing")

http://www.bmw.ie/en/all-models/1-series/3-door/2015/at-a-glance.html


***takes off tin foil hat ***

Chuchote

I suppose the best argument against the 'road tax' trope is that it's really 'hospital tax', since anyone who spends his or her life migrating from breakfast-table to car to desk to car to couch is cooking up a nice dose of fat-fuelled heart disease and diabetes.

If we could get the majority of the population out of cars and onto bikes, our hospital crisis would wither away.

tomasrojo

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Why don't they refer to is as the correct term - motor tax?

I know a few people in the UK have complained to the ASA about the use of the term in advertising, but their complaints have been rejected on the grounds of, pretty much, ah sure, you know what they mean.

buffalo

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Just as an aside, the "road tax" terminology seems to be preferred by car manufacturers as well, reinforcing the link between the motorists and paying for the roads. Have a look at car adverts in the media and they almost universally refer to the running costs, CO2 emissions etc, then the "road tax" cost of the particular vehicle. Couple of random sample below. Why don't they refer to is as the correct term - motor tax?

I assume because 'road tax' furthers the responsibility myth, that car owners are paying for the roads, while 'motor tax' might remind people that motor transport pollutes (and sales may be affected accordingly).

What should happen is that the ASAI should hold them to account, but this is a road* we've travelled before and it leads to a dead end.


*BOOM BOOM

Pinch Flat

buffalo wrote: »

I assume because 'road tax' furthers the responsibility myth, that car owners are paying for the roads, while 'motor tax' might remind people that motor transport pollutes (and sales may be affected accordingly).

What should happen is that the ASAI should hold them to account, but this is a road* we've travelled before and it leads to a dead end.


*BOOM BOOM

I agree, it's a hard cycle to break.





* gets coat

RandomAccess

If you read this in an open minded fashion you can see it as a cry for help, pleading for sanity from someone who doesn't relish a serious 'accident' unfolding in front of them.

The comments beneath it are just bizzare.
The culture of them vs us needs to be dissolved.

http://m.independent.ie/life/motoring/cyclists-like-all-road-users-must-be-mindful-of-others-35121641.html

Pinch Flat

RandomAccess wrote: »

If you read this in an open minded fashion you can see it as a cry for help, pleading for sanity from someone who doesn't relish a serious 'accident' unfolding in front of them.

The comments beneath it are just bizzare.
The culture of them vs us needs to be dissolved.

http://m.independent.ie/life/motoring/cyclists-like-all-road-users-must-be-mindful-of-others-35121641.html

I'm trying to visualise how the cyclist managed to turn his handlebars but still move forward. Maybe he was on one of these (there's a fella I used to see regularly around dublin in one).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideways_bike

NiallBoo

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I'm trying to visualise how the cyclist managed to turn his handlebars but still move forward.

Sounds like they were just shifting their weight.

Won't somebody think of the children!

Chuchote

Today's letter, from Eugene Doran in Dun Laoghaire, is sensible. Extract:

I’d love to see us fast-track a city where parents felt it was safe to let their children cycle. There would be such benefits in terms of obesity prevention, fitness, health and freedom. And, ironically it would reduce congestion for those who have to drive.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/promoting-cycling-in-urban-areas-1.2828577

Piece in the Examiner on the Deise Greenway - starting "Cyclists are becoming spoiled for choice" of course… however it's a nice piece, and ends with a guide to several greenways around the country.

Carawaystick

Chuchote wrote: »

Today's letters in The Irish Times; sweet Jesus.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/making-cycling-safer-1.2825754

Letter 1, from Kildare: basically "why build cycle lanes when the cyclists won't use them?"

I was going to write in and use his words to question why he drove on the road from Naas to Kilcullen when "there has been provided, at great expense" a Motorway from Naas to Kilcullen. and finish with the friendly reminder that sometimes the ordinary road is more convenient for people cycling and people driving.

magicbastarder

i will often drive the older N roads even when there is a motorway provided.

robyntmorton

magicbastarder wrote: »

i will often drive the older N roads even when there is a motorway provided.

I'd be the same. The M7/8 is a quick but boring, depressing road. The N25/N11 is much more fun.

2RockMountain

Driver 'attacked' by cyclist in Dublin city centre on Liveline today - 'growing hostility between drivers and cyclists' - from about 19:00

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/podcasts/#2310016

Did anyone see if the lady got any further callers on this topic?

Tombo2001

2RockMountain wrote: »

Driver 'attacked' by cyclist in Dublin city centre on Liveline today - 'growing hostility between drivers and cyclists' - from about 19:00

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/podcasts/#2310016

Did anyone see if the lady got any further callers on this topic?

Instead of going to the police they go to liveline?

Jury by media.

average_runner

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Instead of going to the police they go to liveline?

Jury by media.

If you read the article on unison.ie, they went to the police. No witnesses so nothing can be done.

I am sure we don't have the full story here but still no excuse for kicking some one like that.

Chuchote

Apparently, this is what happened:

Louise got in a tangle with a cyclist recently. He came around to the driver side of the car, reached in the window, and started poking her. She told Philip about this traumatic experience

Poking her! No podcast yet, afaik, so can't learn more of this horror.

RandomAccess

At least she only got poked.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/i-had-a-footprint-on-my-face-driver-kicked-in-the-face-by-cyclist-after-slowing-down-35136937.html

Crazy times

Grassey

I'm confused as to how the cyclist managed to open the passenger door, hold onto the roof of the car and extend leg far enough through car to kick him in the face, while still on the bike and then cycle off. His legs must make up 5ft of his 6'2 height!

Id say the only piece of truth in the story is that the cyclist banged the car (after he stopped suddenly to let other cars filter in) then cycled off. Story doesn't sound as good that way though.

Donal55

Grassey wrote: »

I'm confused as to how the cyclist managed to open the passenger door, hold onto the roof of the car and extend leg far enough through car to kick him in the face, while still on the bike and then cycle off. His legs must make up 5ft of his 6'2 height!

Id say the only piece of truth in the story is that the cyclist banged the car (after he stopped suddenly to let other cars filter in) then cycled off. Story doesn't sound as good that way though.

You wouldn't need to be 6'2 to kick someone in the face from the passenger side of a car.

RandomAccess

With door as bracing or a roof rack it wouldn't be that hard to kick into the car. It didn't say he stayed on his bike while doing it.
I'd say it's not beyond belief at all.

ThisRegard

There was another caller from Kilkenny, she claimed that nobody else pays taxes to use the roads but motorists, and suggested licence plates.

It's like if you took the DNA from every poster who said something dumb or had a rant on the subject of cyclists on boards.ie, mixed it together to create an individual, that individual rang Liveline today.

There was another guy who tried to link cyclists with the scumbag that snatched his phone but the host gave that short shrift.

2RockMountain

RandomAccess wrote: »

With door as bracing or a roof rack it wouldn't be that hard to kick into the car. It didn't say he stayed on his bike while doing it.
I'd say it's not beyond belief at all.

He didn't just 'kick into the car'. From the passenger door, he apparently managed to kick to a position around 1.5m high and about 2m across the width of the car, in order to kick where the driver's head would be.

Something smelly here.

average_runner

2RockMountain wrote: »

He didn't just 'kick into the car'. From the passenger door, he apparently managed to kick to a position around 1.5m high and about 2m across the width of the car, in order to kick where the driver's head would be.

Something smelly here.

In fairness it quiet easy to do, try your self with no one in your car. Hang on the roof and reach across. And it never said he was still on the bike and the car was at a stand still.

Anyhow I always get the feeling that people here won't believe a bad thing against cyclists but if its anyone else its totally different.

Chuchote

I'd believe it; there are plenty of angry, self-entitled cyclists, just as there are plenty of angry, self-entitled drivers. It would take someone pretty lunatic to kick someone deliberately in the face, though. But considering the kind of attacks on strangers there have been (by pedestrians) in places like Temple Bar and the north inner city and Limerick, we shouldn't be surprised if some aggro merchant takes to two wheels.

magicbastarder

average_runner wrote: »

Anyhow I always get the feeling that people here won't believe a bad thing against cyclists but if its anyone else its totally different.

i don't get any 'he couldn't have done it because he's a cyclist' attitude, it's mainly around whether what is reported is actually possible.

and you do get plenty of complaints on here from people giving out about other cyclists' behaviour.

average_runner

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't get any 'he couldn't have done it because he's a cyclist' attitude, it's mainly around whether what is reported is actually possible.

and you do get plenty of complaints on here from people giving out about other cyclists' behaviour.

Of course its possible to do, anyone can kick out straight into a car.