Journalism and cycling

terrydel

Am I the only one who sees this stoking of the fire by our pathetic, trolling media, ultimately resulting in the death of someone, more than likely a cyclist given the natural disadvantage they have in the cyclist/motorist 'war'?

And I am not for one minute defending either side, there are a huge number of dicks on both sides of the argument, but to see the media actively encouraging and pushing this conflict is a disgrace imho, and will lead to blood on their hands sooner or later. Am I being overly dramatic?

Fian

The comment are a sight to be seen. Not particularly surprising given the content I suppose.

However I don't see how taxing, licencing, registering and insuring cyclists would operate to reduce the chances of a scumbag who happened to be on a bike kicking a driver in the face.

Moflojo

I'm pretty sure "Eugene" who calls in to Liveline (at around 12 minutes on the podcast) is one of the Rubberbandits.

Chips Lovell

Seriously folks, what are ye doing listening to Liveline?

ThisRegard

With just me and the dogs working during the day, I need something to give me a superiority boost in the absence of a pat on the back from management.

Lemming

ThisRegard wrote: »

There was another caller from Kilkenny, she claimed that nobody else pays taxes to use the roads but motorists, and suggested licence plates.

She also tried to hold up the bad behaviour of children aged (10-13) with all cyclists.

Edit: I encountered three kids - estimate age between 11 - 13 on bikes on my way home from the supermarket on Saturday evening, on a busy road (40mph limit) with absolutely no lights and it was dark, not fading light. I spotted something small wearing a white full-face helmet comiung around the roundabout I was about to enter and take 1st left on, and realised it was a kid on a bike so stayed behind rather than overtake because a) lights were about 50m ahead with road not great for overtaking on, b) spotted his two mates about 15m ahead of him, and c) so that no other car would do something dumb and/or not see them. What I got for my efforts at the next lights was that all three of them spread out across two lanes (straight-ahead/left, and a filter lane right) and slowed riiiiiiiight down to troll the traffic for having stayed behind them. I don't blame that on cyclists; just kids with bad behaviour and sh1t parenting.

tomasrojo

I haven't seen any escalation in tension. Back during the boom, that was when I noticed all sorts of weird hostility.

NiallBoo

tomasrojo wrote: »

I haven't seen any escalation in tension. Back during the boom, that was when I noticed all sorts of weird hostility.

I wonder if the Dutch and the Danes will be willing to take in some of our cyclist refugees when tensions spike and a proper civil war kicks off.

NiallBoo

Deedsie wrote: »

Cyclists were here first... We nearly went extinct but we have been reintroduced and numbers are soaring :-) Let the motorists move out of our town and city centres. Car dependency has done more than enough damage at this stage.

Ah well I'm afraid the "I was here first" argument trends to not work so well in wars.

ThisRegard

Incoming on Livelive now, continuing the great cyclist/motorist war of 2016.

Roadhawk

Deedsie wrote: »

Cyclists were here first...

NiallBoo wrote: »

Ah well I'm afraid the "I was here first" argument trends to not work so well in wars.

The bike might have been around first but as the modes of transport evolved and moved forward so did every thing else.

NiallBoo

Roadhawk wrote: »

The bike might have been around first but as the modes of transport evolved and moved forward so did every thing else.

I really wish you were right.

2RockMountain

average_runner wrote: »

Of course its possible to do, anyone can kick out straight into a car.

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness it quiet easy to do, try your self with no one in your car. Hang on the roof and reach across. And it never said he was still on the bike and the car was at a stand still.

Anyhow I always get the feeling that people here won't believe a bad thing against cyclists but if its anyone else its totally different.

Any chance you could do a little video showing how easy you can get your kick over the level of the car seat, but below the level of the roof? So you can't bring your kick up diagonally from the ground, as you'd hit off the chassis or the passenger car seat. I'd be very interested to see you making this kick.

dub_skav

2RockMountain wrote: »

Any chance you could do a little video showing how easy you can get your kick over the level of the car seat, but below the level of the roof? So you can't bring your kick up diagonally from the ground, as you'd hit off the chassis or the passenger car seat. I'd be very interested to see you making this kick.

It just takes practice

tomasrojo

ThisRegard wrote: »

Incoming on Livelive now, continuing the great cyclist/motorist war of 2016.

Radio is a truly excellent medium, but the tight link in Ireland between radio and "drive time" really makes for a dispiriting listen. RTÉ's love of cheap but on-average rubbish formats such as phone-ins doesn't help.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Radio is a truly excellent medium, but the tight link in Ireland between radio and "drive time" really makes for a dispiriting listen. RTÉ's love of cheap but on-average rubbish formats such as phone-ins doesn't help.

And even Lyric is sinking rapidly into a marsh of populism.

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

And even Lyric is sinking rapidly into a marsh of populism.

I don't listen enough to be knowledgeable. They definitely can get a bit "Classic FM" at times, but they still broadcast some quite uncompromisingly unpopular stuff from the Second Viennese School, and Reich wannabes. (Nothing wrong with the 2nd VS or Reich, I hasten to add.)

Chuchote

Good letter in The Irish Times today about cycle lanes from John Thompson of Phibsboro

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/the-trouble-with-cycle-lanes-1.2834400

Sir, – Where I know that the cycle lane has a very bad surface compared to the road, I use the road. Bikes feel the bumps much more than cars, and large bumps can both damage the bike and cause accidents, so it is strange that cycle lanes are typically where the gutters and drains are, and where roads are typically dug up to access services and are badly resurfaced after. Cycle lanes also tend to be closer to the trees and may be badly rippled by root growth. Some dedicated cycle path surfaces seemed to disintegrate badly in the cold weather of 2010 and have never been repaired…
Choosing to travel on cycle lanes like these is a mistake a rider makes only once. It really makes you wonder what goes on in planners’ heads.

He also covers new cycle lanes' awful design in detail: cars parking on them, pedestrians walking on them, bus stops badly placed, lanes that land cyclists out in front of cars preparing to turn, lack of planning for right turns, badly-set traffic lights. A good letter.

Chuchote

Also, a good piece by New York's former transport commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, who introduced parking-protected cycle lanes that changed the city:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html

Never underestimate the anger directed at bicyclists. They ride too fast, terrorizing pedestrians. They ride too slow, dangerously obstructing drivers. They don’t wear helmets or reflective bike gear, jeopardizing themselves. They shouldn’t ride in streets, which are hostile, car-only zones. They shouldn’t have their own lanes because there aren’t enough of them to take away space from cars. Yet there are so many of them that they’re running down pedestrians and therefore shouldn’t ride on sidewalks.

…we moved quickly to implement many bike lanes protected by a lane of parked cars. Part of what was so appealing about bike lanes as a transportation solution is that they are a lot easier and cheaper to install than new subways. The main construction material is paint, which simplifies the amount of technical and bureaucratic work necessary to design a good one.
And using paint is only part of what makes them incredibly cheap, since federal clean-air funds could be used to pay for 80 percent of the bike lane expenditures.
We got buy-in from the city’s fire commissioner, who had no problem figuring out that the designs left ample room for their companies. (It helped that his chief deputy was a bike enthusiast.)
Police Commissioner Ray Kelly was instrumental in getting his department to sign off on changes to signs, traffic flow, and enforcement.

buffalo

Chuchote wrote: »

Also, a good piece by New York's former transport commissioner, Janette Sadik-Khan, who introduced parking-protected cycle lanes that changed the city:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/bike-wars-are-over-and-the-bikes-won.html

I like her attitude in general but...

The main construction material is paint, which simplifies the amount of technical and bureaucratic work necessary to design a good one.

I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.

Chuchote

buffalo wrote: »

I like her attitude in general but...



I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.

Well, at the same time, her main bike lanes were made by changing the borders on the roads, so that the car parking was moved out to allow a bike lane in the former car parking area. The objections seem to have been howls of protest by people who formerly double-parked!

knockoutned

I’m currently living in New York and one of these parking-protected lanes was recently introduced in the Avenue near my apartment. I was surprised how quickly it took them to set it up. The road itself had recently been resurfaced, so the lane had a good surface to begin with. One day walking home, the cars were parked beside the curb. The next day, they had removed the paint indicating the parking lane and one traffic lane and had painted in the new cycle lane, “no man’s land” between the cycle lane and parking lane and the new parking lanes. Straight away cars, started moving out and parking in the new area. Following that, they painted the cycle lane in green paint. Last thing was to place new concrete curbs between the cycle lane and car lane at the beginning and end of each block for pedestrians to cross. The whole thing probably took 6 months to complete everything, but now you have a safe* cycling lane on a very busy avenue.

*It being new York, people will still walk out in front of you, (though this decreases as everyone becomes more aware of the new setup) taxi’s will cut across you turning left as you go straight and delivery trucks will pull in at the top of turning lanes, but at least the chance of being doored or someone pulling out in front of you has been reduced.

My only problem with these types of lanes is not the actual cycle lane itself, but more the block setup of New York. You’re probably stopping every two blocks as cars turn across you or the lights change. Where I believe these lanes would be very effective are long stretches of road with little or no intersections, such as Fitzwilliam Street, Lesson Street etc.

07Lapierre

"A good Bike lane is made up of mostly paint" I agree with this. At least it is when the same lane is accompanied by good signage and does not take away a cyclists "right of Way" at junctions.

Chuchote

Sadik-Khan (who has an Irish mother!) says that they did it like that because it was reassuring for people - the attitude was "Oh, ok, it can be reversed at any time? We'll give it a try!" Then they found they liked it, and retail sales doubled and doubled again in the cycle-ised and pedestrianised areas.
https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more?language=en#t-606566

NiallBoo

buffalo wrote: »

I think she's underestimating or overselling the amount of work involved in making a *good* bike lane.

By far the most important thing about a bike lane is coherent planning.

Paint really is the only important material if you put it in the right places.

My personal bugbear about Irish cycle lanes is how they coat them with a thin layer of coloured tar. Great if you do it full depth and with the right machinery like they would in Holland, but we just paint a thin bumpy layer on side-ways. It starts de-laminating within months and turns the lane into a lumpy, gritty, dangerous mess (which holds onto dirt and glass even more vigorously). Good times.

Chuchote

Sadik-Khan said that it was important in New York to make the cycle lanes a temporary thing - at first, anyway - so that people knew they could be reversed if they didn't prove advantageous.

By the way, this is in The Irish Times just now:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/unnecessary-deaths-caused-by-low-spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-1.2837200

‘Unnecessary deaths’ caused by low spend on cycling infrastructure
UN report says 20% of transport budget should be spent in area but just 1% will be in 2016

Chuchote

Today's letter is from Hugh James Martin of Dublin 2, pointing out that he sees equal amount of lawbreaking among all users of the roads:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2838440

magicbastarder

There was a drivers v cyclists feature in yesterday's herald, which I heard being advertised on the radio. Needless to say, I didn't seek it out.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

There was a drivers v cyclists feature in yesterday's herald, which I heard being advertised on the radio. Needless to say, I didn't seek it out.

Considering that the paper is freely advertising the location of a man under threat of being murdered…

RandomAccess

Chuchote wrote: »

Today's letter is from Hugh James Martin of Dublin 2, pointing out that he sees equal amount of lawbreaking among all users of the roads:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2838440

I'd be inclined to agree with him.