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open up churches for homeless people?

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  • 04-10-2016 5:13pm
    #1
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭


    wasnt sure whether to post this in religion or what but even though its not lighthearted subject I thought i would post it in AH so here goes.

    I am presuming churches in towns and cities close/lock their doors 'out of hours' correct?

    Why dont they leave their church doors open for the homeless this winter? - surely better for a church to be dryer and more sheltered than a shop doorway or park bench? - and maybe the church/church goers can supply sleeping bags and the homeless people sleep on the benches in the church - the church is (or should be) a compassionate organisation should it not , so wondering if they dont already, why dont they offer accommodation to homeless people to get their head down for the night?

    Silly idea?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    stanley1989
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭stanley1989


    I was homeless for months in sligo and letterkenny Took any help i could get and was very thankful but unfortunately theres always a small number of homeless who abuse anyone who trys to help them by stealing etc


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    #3
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I'd say the problems would come from insurance companies, they like their cut of the action and if there's no action they won't let you do squat.

    The first problem may be that the churches public liability (if it has such a thing) may not cover letting people sleep in the church. The church would be accepting a duty of care over anyone it let in.

    Once they start drinking, doing drugs and stinking up the place the regular church goers would want them out.

    Over all a church isn't a suitable place to be letting people sleep. It will protect people from wind and rain but that would be about it.


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    #4
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    You should probably go and suggest it to your parish priest. I'm sure he'd be able to advise you as to whether it's feasible, or explain to you why not.


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    #5
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Yeah, silly idea.

    Why don't we open up schools too? And shopping centres. And offices. There are loads of buildings that aren't used at night. What harm could they do? Are all of the rooms in your house being fully utilised? Ask the homeless to drop in!


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    #6
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Why not lead by example and open up your own house?


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    #7
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Why not lead by example and open up your own house?

    well i - rent so i dont think my LL would agree, i would end up with being chucked out onto the streets - but nice thought/way of thinking :)

    ... oh and I dont live in the town/city either where you will find most of the people sleeping rough ...


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    #8
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,529 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    The Capuchin Friars help out the homeless, there was a programme about it a while back.


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    #9
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    What about Andy's house for them?


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    #10
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,529 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    There's also a lot of valuable stuff in churches, wouldn't be a hard job to throw the priest to the floor and make off with it.


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    #11
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭stimpson


    I think the homeless suffer enough TBH.


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    #12
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Ted111 wrote:
    What about Andy's house for them?


    Look at post #7


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    #13
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Galwayguy35 wrote:
    There's also a lot of valuable stuff in churches, wouldn't be a hard job to throw the priest to the floor and make off with it.


    Lock it away at night?


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    #14
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    stimpson wrote:
    I think the homeless suffer enough TBH.


    There could be a few converts and born again Christians to be had?


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    #15
    pgj2015
    Registered Users Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    why dont they offer accommodation to homeless people to get their head down for the night?


    Because the churches would end up like this


    https://www.google.ie/search?q=crack+house&rlz=1C1DSGQ_enIE519IE519&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=662&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOkcnn0cHPAhVDKcAKHax-DbEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=yCi5zlJBCLkqHM%3A


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    #16
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    why dont they offer accommodation to homeless people to get their head down for the night?


    Because the churches would end up like this


    https://www.google.ie/search?q=crack+house&rlz=1C1DSGQ_enIE519IE519&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=662&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOkcnn0cHPAhVDKcAKHax-DbEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=yCi5zlJBCLkqHM%3A

    I thought you were going to show that opening scene from Fear The Walking Dead.


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    #17
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    I've thought about it. I've considered the couple or three old ladies rattling around in the local convent built for many more, and thought how maybe the church should arrange decent apartments for them right next to the town square, appropriate for the needs of the elderly, and use the convent building itself for humanitarian purposes. I've wondered why the church hasn't bought many of the vacant properties around here to use for refugees (there is an apartment building in Ballisodare that I pass often and the sight of the mistreated building makes me sick).

    But then I realise that the Church can't be trusted to provide clean, modern, decent, and appropriate housing and services. Church officials would claim to be exempt from sensible laws passed to protect the vulnerable and to ensure that everyone has equal access to services free from discrimination and exploitation. They'd make attendance at religious services a condition of receiving help. Even Mother Theresa thought it was holy and desirable for people to be in pain and suffering. Compassionate organisations? Not so much.

    The only way you could make this work would be to condemn the Church buildings and turn them into accommodation. This has been done already with at least one large convent that I know of as a shelter for asylum seekers. Even then it's far from optimal... can you imagine what would happen if you left it up to the tender mercies of the Church?


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    #18
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    Look at post #7

    And will the church have to get public liability insurance?


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    #19
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    why dont they offer accommodation to homeless people to get their head down for the night?


    Because the churches would end up like this


    https://www.google.ie/search?q=crack+house&rlz=1C1DSGQ_enIE519IE519&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=662&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOkcnn0cHPAhVDKcAKHax-DbEQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=yCi5zlJBCLkqHM%3A

    Mass would be interesting anyway.

    I think, rather than opening up churches, it would be nice if more of the clergy were actual Christians like Fr. Peter McVerry or Br. Kevin Crowley.


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    #20
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Most Churches actually are being closed earlier and earlier instead nowadays, usually as soon as it gets dark. It's just not worth having them open because of troublemakers and kids going in, not too mention it can be dangerous for older people or women in the dark


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    #21
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Speedwell wrote: »
    I've thought about it. I've considered the couple or three old ladies rattling around in the local convent built for many more, and thought how maybe the church should arrange decent apartments for them right next to the town square, appropriate for the needs of the elderly, and use the convent building itself for humanitarian purposes. I've wondered why the church hasn't bought many of the vacant properties around here to use for refugees (there is an apartment building in Ballisodare that I pass often and the sight of the mistreated building makes me sick).

    But then I realise that the Church can't be trusted to provide clean, modern, decent, and appropriate housing and services. Church officials would claim to be exempt from sensible laws passed to protect the vulnerable and to ensure that everyone has equal access to services free from discrimination and exploitation. They'd make attendance at religious services a condition of receiving help. Even Mother Theresa thought it was holy and desirable for people to be in pain and suffering. Compassionate organisations? Not so much.

    The only way you could make this work would be to condemn the Church buildings and turn them into accommodation. This has been done already with at least one large convent that I know of as a shelter for asylum seekers. Even then it's far from optimal... can you imagine what would happen if you left it up to the tender mercies of the Church?

    Must resist urge to post picture of raving Mrs Lovejoy....


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    #22
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Must resist urge to post picture of raving Mrs Lovejoy....

    Why's that?


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    #23
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    There could be a few converts and born again Christians to be had?

    That's how they drum up business in the Third World.


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    #24
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    well i - rent so i dont think my LL would agree, i would end up with being chucked out onto the streets - but nice thought/way of thinking :)

    ... oh and I dont live in the town/city either where you will find most of the people sleeping rough ...
    I'm sure they wouldn't mind travelling out for some country air if they had a nice warm bed and a good dinner. You should set an example for us all.


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    #25
    Estrellita
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Estrellita


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    wasnt sure whether to post this in religion or what but even though its not lighthearted subject I thought i would post it in AH so here goes.

    I am presuming churches in towns and cities close/lock their doors 'out of hours' correct?

    Why dont they leave their church doors open for the homeless this winter? - surely better for a church to be dryer and more sheltered than a shop doorway or park bench? - and maybe the church/church goers can supply sleeping bags and the homeless people sleep on the benches in the church - the church is (or should be) a compassionate organisation should it not , so wondering if they dont already, why dont they offer accommodation to homeless people to get their head down for the night?

    Silly idea?

    It's not a silly idea, because at least you are trying to consider ways of tackling homelessness.

    I think the idea wouldn't come to much, unfortunately. I don't mean to generalise, but sadly with homelessness comes with anti-social behaviour and other problems. The whole place would need to be cleared out at night to avoid damage to the pews, the paintings and statues etc.. that isn't feasible.

    These weren't homeless people, but our church nearby had to stop doing a late mass because people were coming in drunk apparently. But you can see what I'm getting at.

    If any trouble kicks off the church have no way of dealing with it. So, if anything it's more designated centres that is needed.


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    #26
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    Ted111 wrote: »
    And will the church have to get public liability insurance?

    more than likely - you would wonder how insurance works in shop doorways, ...but then again i suppose the shop's PLI covers it


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    #27
    Andy From Sligo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭Andy From Sligo


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I'm sure they wouldn't mind travelling out for some country air if they had a nice warm bed and a good dinner. You should set an example for us all.

    it dont seem to be sinking in that i'm renting property, and that my LL would not take to 'strangers' residing in the house ...


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    #28
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    A lot of homeless people are living in hotels or temporary accommodation (which is completely wrong) so they don't need literally a roof(steeple) over their head.

    For those living rough in the main have addiction issues, personality disorders or psychiatric problems. They need more than just physical housing. They need society to help them and treat them. And physical buildings is (small) part of that. That should all be provided by the state. Which is to say all of us.

    If a church was used to house vagrants and homeless it wouldn't be fit to hold its ceremonies in. And as much as people despise them they are hardly going to shut down what they perceive to be their raison d'etre.


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    #29
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    more than likely - you would wonder how insurance works in shop doorways, ...but then again i suppose the shop's PLI covers it

    A shop owner has no control over who sleeps in his doorway or on the pavement outside his premises and is not liable to any injury to them. If someone opens a public building to allow people to sleep in then if they a court deems they have not taken all reasonable efforts to prevent injury or harm then they will be liable to compensating someone injured therein.


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    #30
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Ted111 wrote: »
    If a church was used to house vagrants and homeless it wouldn't be fit to hold its ceremonies in. And as much as people despise them they are hardly going to shut down what they perceive to be their raison d'etre.

    It occurs to me that the Church's reason for being is to serve others, and that a church that failed in this respect would, as you say, be unfit to hold ceremonies in.


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    #31
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    it dont seem to be sinking in that i'm renting property, and that my LL would not take to 'strangers' residing in the house ...

    A bit off topic but is this true? I would have thought if you're renting you can let anyone at all stay with you as long as the rent is being paid. Does the right to quiet enjoyment cover the guests in the house?


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