ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

political analyst

Millem wrote: »

Will asti be picketing? If so I hope our BOM decide to close the school on thurs under h and s. They are deciding during the week. Some Tui members have said they will cross picket to get paid.....will be terrible for staff relations What positions will SNAs be in if school opens and asti picketing? Ours seem to think they will get paid regardless like last strike?

Why should TUI members in community and comprehensive schools be expected not to cross ASTI pickets? It's not their fight.

judeboy101

JD3112 wrote: »

In an all ASTI school, what should we try and convince our BOM do for November 7th onwards?

i.e. keep the school open (but tell the students to stay at home) so that we can turn up for work??

More than likely they'll close the school. With Bruton's threats we could lose our pay but if that's the case, then the BOM are essentially organising/facilitating a lockout.

If the school is kept open (albeit with no students) then we have turned up for work and should be paid??

If we are locked out on the Monday we should grab the first bus to Dublin and march on the dail.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

I don't think that ASTI members would be setting a good example to their pupils if they started being abusive towards TUI members who cross the picket.

Just seen this bit
Never mind you are clearly trolling at this stage
Another for the ignore list

**Member warned
Please read the charter etc.
Mod**

political analyst

ASTI members may be interested to hear that their Scottish counterparts are also taking action.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-37746713

seavill

political analyst wrote: »

If it's about the ASTI then it's relevant alright!

Ordinary teachers are not entitled to claim expenses. So why should the presidents of their unions be entitled? I think it makes a mockery of solidarity.

No its really not this is about the strike and the elements to do with the strike, trying to bring in expenses when no one has mentioned it before is not relevant you are trolling except you are being more about it this time than normal with your question after question.

Stick to the topic of the thread. If you want to try troll people about that start a new thread, i'm sure I will get a warning for "back seat modding" but seen as no one else is doing it so be it

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

It's the SBP, not the Sindo.

The strike is yet to begin. Therefore, according to the SBP, there is no bar on ASTI members leaving to join the TUI until the strike starts. Why would the SBP say it if it's not true? Presumably, the SBP was referring to ASTI members in community and comprehensive schools, not voluntary schools. TUI members in community and comprehensive schools can declare their membership to avoid a further pay-cut if they wish.

Are asti members currently not taking industrial action with regard to the new junior cert? Refusal to implement assessment and attend cpd coupled with withdrawl from planning falls under industrial action, I think?

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

Are asti members currently not taking industrial action with regard to the new junior cert? Refusal to implement assessment and attend cpd coupled with withdrawl from planning falls under industrial action, I think?

The new junior cert wasn't mentioned in the article.

km79

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1024/826368-asti-teachers/

joebloggs32

This dispute started in July when the HRA expired. Teachers could have moved by resigning before then from their union.

Eintrachtrob

km79 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1024/826368-asti-teachers/

We shouldn't be surprised by this.

Nothing is being offered as the LRA is the "only show in town".

deiseindublin

I'm so allergic to that overused mantra at this stage.

Matthew712

Brendan harbour of impact referred to it as "The Lambsdown Road agreement" on rte news. A much better name I Think.

evolving_doors

seavill wrote: »

No its really not this is about the strike and the elements to do with the strike, trying to bring in expenses when no one has mentioned it before is not relevant you are trolling except you are being more about it this time than normal with your question after question.

Stick to the topic of the thread. If you want to try troll people about that start a new thread, i'm sure I will get a warning for "back seat modding" but seen as no one else is doing it so be it

Ah here, I'm only just sittin down for the night (to start school work!)
just use the ignore button please.
Yes it is muddying the waters and off topic.
Yes I'll be issuing infraction.
Then deleting off topic stuff.
Reminder to folks to read Post one for 'the usual'. Yissr here long enough now to know what way things go around strike times.
Ta
MOD
(do not reply on-thread etc. )

coillsaille

Did anyone hear what individual BOMs in ASTI schools are planning for Nov 7th? As in if the school will be open for staff to turn up for work or not. Still waiting to hear from our board but we're expecting them to let teachers turn up in school as usual.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

coillsaille wrote: »

Did anyone hear what individual BOMs in ASTI schools are planning for Nov 7th? As in if the school will be open for staff to turn up for work or not. Still waiting to hear from our board but we're expecting them to let teachers turn up in school as usual.

This is a much more import at point to address in this thread instead of pointless bickering , it could actually be helpful.
As I have said already , our BOM intend to close the school on health and safety grounds, ASTI meeting being held tomorrow to discuss this decision. Principal says we will definitely not be paid.

dory

We're closing on the 7th. Presume we won't be paid. We're all ASTI.

coillsaille

Roselyn Harsh Backup wrote: »

This is a much more import at point to address in this thread instead of pointless bickering , it could actually be helpful.
As I have said already , our BOM intend to close the school on health and safety grounds, ASTI meeting being held tomorrow to discuss this decision. Principal says we will definitely not be paid.

I would hazard a guess Roselyn Harsh Backup that your principal is quoting the latest JMB bulletin circulated to schools. I have read it, and yes it does advise closing the school to students on health and safety grounds due to an inability to guarantee adequate supervision. It goes into lots of detail on that front, even discussing impacts on insurance.
But it does not mention anything about allowing staff access to the workplace or not.

evolving_doors

coillsaille wrote: »

Did anyone hear what individual BOMs in ASTI schools are planning for Nov 7th? As in if the school will be open for staff to turn up for work or not. Still waiting to hear from our board but we're expecting them to let teachers turn up in school as usual.

BOM is being non-committal at the mo. and maybe rightly so until the ASTI have clarified a view. BOM's probably have to have an extra meeting to get a consensus.

A school can't really tell students to come in if there's no S&S though can they. They'd be done for neglect!
I know a fair few parents who'd push Johnny through the school letterbox if they could.

mirrorwall14

I know of at least one school which is locking staff out. Closing the school for health and safety. The term lock out was actually used in the meeting

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

BOM is being non-committal at the mo. and maybe rightly so until the ASTI have clarified a view. BOM's probably have to have an extra meeting to get a consensus.

A school can't really tell students to come in if there's no S&S though can they. They'd be done for neglect!
I know a fair few parents who'd push Johnny through the school letterbox if they could.

Jmb told principals and chairman's that we wont get paid even if school is open to teachers but not to students.

The_Valeyard

judeboy101 wrote: »

Jmb told principals and chairman's that we wont get paid even if school is open to teachers but not to students.

They cant do that if you are available for work. Depends on the Union. Whole thing is very confusing.

judeboy101

The_Valeyard wrote: »

They cant do that if you are available for work. Depends on the Union. Whole thing is very confusing.

S&s are part of contract so by not doing it you are in breach if contract therefore no pay. Those who opt out and tui/non union is the only grey area, but if you signed up for s&s and don't do it on 7th you are not getting paid even I gov broke deal first, they hold purse strings and by time a test case would make it to court, we'd all be paupers.

paddybarry

The_Valeyard wrote: »

They cant do that if you are available for work. Depends on the Union. Whole thing is very confusing.

Haddington Road made S and S part of core duties. Fact that we are withdrawing S and S from Monday 7th, means that they can deduct us pay as we are not fulfilling our contract of employment. Showing up for work makes no difference.

judeboy101

coillsaille wrote: »

Did anyone hear what individual BOMs in ASTI schools are planning for Nov 7th? As in if the school will be open for staff to turn up for work or not. Still waiting to hear from our board but we're expecting them to let teachers turn up in school as usual.

I think jmb are putting massive pressure on principals and chairmans to ensure a lockout, they really don't want teachers in school as that would highlight the govs unwillingness to pay for s&s. They will use "insurance" and health&safety based on the fact that a few students always turn up for school even on days it is closed as a reason they can't 'risk' opening even to teachers only.

judeboy101

paddybarry wrote: »

Haddington Road made S and S part of core duties. Fact that we are withdrawing S and S from Monday 7th, means that they can deduct us pay as we are not fulfilling our contract of employment. Showing up for work makes no difference.

Whether the school is closed or open on the 7th is is very important that ALL ASTI members turn up, spread it on social media etc that they are willing to work. Imho.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

judeboy101 wrote: »

Whether the school is closed or open on the 7th is is very important that ALL ASTI members turn up, spread it on social media etc that they are willing to work. Imho.

How will this make a difference? Should there be an ASTI sign in sheet for teachers to sign at school opening time?

coillsaille

judeboy101 wrote: »

S&s are part of contract so by not doing it you are in breach if contract therefore no pay. Those who opt out and tui/non union is the only grey area, but if you signed up for s&s and don't do it on 7th you are not getting paid even I gov broke deal first, they hold purse strings and by time a test case would make it to court, we'd all be paupers.

Apparently when standing committee decided on the action after the ballot they informed the dept to cease deducting the opt out money from Nov 7th. The reasoning being that the opt out is part of the SnS Scheme, which we are withdrawing from.
In the DES's view the opt out people are just as vulnerable to wage docking as they are deemed party to the collective action.

judeboy101

Roselyn Harsh Backup wrote: »

How will this make a difference? Should there be an ASTI sign in sheet for teachers to sign at school opening time?

If teachers don't attempt to go to work as per usual they legitimize the lockout. By turning up even to be turned away, allows us to argue we presented ourselves for work. The last thing we need is another liveline with a blow by blow description of the "teachers heading to newry" fiasco.

man_no_plan

judeboy101 wrote: »

If teachers don't attempt to go to work as per usual they legitimize the lockout. By turning up even to be turned away, allows us to argue we presented ourselves for work. The last thing we need is another liveline with a blow by blow description of the "teachers heading to newry" fiasco.

There is some argument as to whether or not it would be a lockout.

The_Valeyard

Will pensions be affected, because of breach of contract. Can they move you to another scale?