ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

Mardy Bum

worseforwear wrote: »

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The point is that BOM cannot have students on the premises without adequate supervision, there are insurance implications. That's not a lock out. If students aren't in school then the DES won't pay teachers. Thats not the board's or the JMB'S fault. That's the asti's fault for negotiating that Haddington Rd agreement where sns became a core duty.

And if the ASTI didn't sign up to it everyone including you would be saying the teachers are lazy and are not doing anything for a "bankrupt" country that cannot afford to keep "overpaid and underworked" employees.

You can't win it seems.

The_Valeyard

I know schools with a 50/50 split with TUI & ASTI will be open, the BOM have made that call.

We be interesting to see how this plays out.

Inspector Coptoor

Millem wrote: »

Is the rent allowance tax free?

No, I don't think so.

They are talking about making it part of core pay so don't see how it's tax free

acequion

I dont think that poster makes any valid points He/She comes across as another narrow minded teacher basher,the kind that will blame the teacher regardless.One fr d ignore list.

judeboy101

worseforwear wrote: »

The point is that BOM cannot have students on the premises without adequate supervision, there are insurance implications. That's not a lock out. If students aren't in school then the DES won't pay teachers. Thats not the board's or the JMB'S fault. That's the asti's fault for negotiating that Haddington Rd agreement where sns became a core duty.
Now the asti leadership have marched the membership to the top of the hill on sns without even realising that the DES could take refuse to pay teachers.
I'm sure you will be allowed into the staffroom on monday where the biggest issue facing will be who will provide milk and biscuits after your week off.

Less than ten jmb schools opening to teachers out of 300 odd schools. Most schools using h&s to keep teachers out as they afraid a student or parent might turn up and gain access

CWF

worseforwear wrote: »

What planet are you on judeboy?

Careful now!

ccazza

judeboy101 wrote: »

Less than ten jmb schools opening to teachers out of 300 odd schools. Most schools using h&s to keep teachers out as they afraid a student or parent might turn up and gain access

Where are you getting your figures from? I know 3 out of 4 "jmb" schools opening in my area.

Icsics

Is there any update on the 'talks'...?

km79

Icsics wrote: »

Is there any update on the 'talks'...?

It now seems that no talks took place today at all!
SC met/are meeting this afternoon so hopefully the union gives some kind of info this evening
Further talks are expected this weekend ..........
Sunday 6 or 9 o clock news expect a deferral of strike

Icsics

km79 wrote: »

It now seems that no talks took place today at all!
SC met/are meeting this afternoon so hopefully the union gives some kind of info this evening
Further talks are expected this weekend ..........
Sunday 6 or 9 o clock news expect a deferral of strike

Thnaks km79, hope it hasn't all been for nothing. The Govt seem so relieved the Garda strike was called off that they seem quite happy for the schools to close next week.
Hope for a strong response from SC this evening

judeboy101

ccazza wrote: »

Where are you getting your figures from? I know 3 out of 4 "jmb" schools opening in my area.

Same place you got 3/4, from looking around my local area

worseforwear

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Your points are valid.
The thinly veiled dig at the end was unnecessary.

You say it's the ASTI's fault for marching us to the top of the hill.
The HRA is over - that's our reading of it.

We don't view S&S as part of core duties.

I'm willing to not be paid for all of next week.

It's not our fault the goverment won't pay us €796 as they promised.
They've given new Gardai up to €6000 as of yesterday.

I really hope the union leadership dig in now and don't bottle it

You can debate whether sns is part of core duties or not. It doesn't really matter because the DES have contracts that say it is therefore they won't pay teachers. That was part of the HR agreement where teachers were signed up to doing sns as part of their teaching contract. Teachers were allowed to forego 1769 to allow another person to be employed to carry out their duties. That's how some teachers were allowed out of the scheme but it's still part of their contract.
The bigger issue is that the Asti leadership didn't seem to realise this when they directed the withdrawal from sns.
Just because HR expired or asti are not in LR doesn't mean they can make up their own working conditions. The DES fireproofed themselves against that under fempi hence are not paying for sns.
The DES is insisting on cp hours because other public sector workers are making savings for the government through their cp hours and asti members cannot be seen to get away without fulfilling them. How useful they are to productivity in schools is a separate issue.

The guards were always going to get their way. The government couldn't allow a strike because if one high profile crime happened it couldve brought down the government.
Schools are not open, public backlash will be towards the schools not the government. Plus the government are saving money. Hence no rush to resolve.


I really feel that the union leadership are very naive and inexperienced when it comes to looking for a resolution. They need to find a way out of this one, lick the wounds and rethink the approach.
For the members it would be better to have a clever enemy than a stupid friend.

worseforwear

acequion wrote: »

I dont think that poster makes any valid points He/She comes across as another narrow minded teacher basher,the kind that will blame the teacher regardless.One fr d ignore list.

Not blaming the teachers. Blame the union leadership. They've been outsmarted by the DES. And teachers will suffer

judeboy101

worseforwear wrote: »

You can debate whether sns is part of core duties or not. It doesn't really matter because the DES have contracts that say it is therefore they won't pay teachers. That was part of the HR agreement where teachers were signed up to doing sns as part of their teaching contract. Teachers were allowed to forego 1769 to allow another person to be employed to carry out their duties. That's how some teachers were allowed out of the scheme but it's still part of their contract.
The bigger issue is that the Asti leadership didn't seem to realise this when they directed the withdrawal from sns.
Just because HR expired or asti are not in LR doesn't mean they can make up their own working conditions. The DES fireproofed themselves against that under fempi hence are not paying for sns.
The DES is insisting on cp hours because other public sector workers are making savings for the government through their cp hours and asti members cannot be seen to get away without fulfilling them. How useful they are to productivity in schools is a separate issue.

The guards were always going to get their way. The government couldn't allow a strike because if one high profile crime happened it couldve brought down the government.
Schools are not open, public backlash will be towards the schools not the government. Plus the government are saving money. Hence no rush to resolve.


I really feel that the union leadership are very naive and inexperienced when it comes to looking for a resolution. They need to find a way out of this one, lick the wounds and rethink the approach.
For the members it would be better to have a clever enemy than a stupid friend.

Well I signed a contract saying s&s would never be part of my duties until the day I retire. How is that core duties?

worseforwear

judeboy101 wrote: »

Well I signed a contract saying s&s would never be part of my duties until the day I retire. How is that core duties?

Ring the DES and ask them and when you get the answer you might pass it on to Mr Christie and Mr Byrne.

joebloggs32

man_no_plan wrote: »

Granted. But the point is that there's an ASTI member who is grossly misinformed spreading their misinformation. Its not unique to ASTI but helps nobody when this is going on.

I heard her too. I couldn't believe how misinformed she was on what is happening at the moment.

km79

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/17500-asti-teachers-to-withdraw-from-supervision-substitution-from-monday/

no. change
Will continue to engage with DES over weekend

judeboy101

worseforwear wrote: »

Ring the DES and ask them and when you get the answer you might pass it on to Mr Christie and Mr Byrne.

Rang last week to confirm that I wouldn't not be paid from Monday. They said the deduction will disappear from my paycheck from 17th due to midterm. I asked them to return their copy of the 'contract for life' which I signed as it was now invalid, but they refused stating that it might be reactivated in the future. So maybe you should pass that answer into mr Bruton and mr o'donoghue.

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/17500-asti-teachers-to-withdraw-from-supervision-substitution-from-monday/

no. change
Will continue to engage with DES over weekend

No mention of a protest Monday to capitalise on the lockout. Disappointed about that but delighted we are staying strong.

martingriff

Contract for life???

judeboy101

martingriff wrote: »

Contract for life???

When you retire your working life is over, at least I hope it will be?

evolving_doors

Millem wrote: »

Is the rent allowance tax free?

Nope it's thrown on top of core pay now.
Even those who own their own houses get the 'rent' allowance! Maybe auld have renamed it to something else.

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Nope it's thrown on top of core pay now.
Even those who own their own houses get the 'rent' allowance! Maybe auld have renamed it to something else.

No different to the hons degree allowance being addaed to the teachers scale.

feardeas

km79 wrote:

It now seems that no talks took place today at all! SC met/are meeting this afternoon so hopefully the union gives some kind of info this evening Further talks are expected this weekend .......... Sunday 6 or 9 o clock news expect a deferral of strike

I wouldn't be sure. I think the government might hold tough. I feel worseforwear could be right.

TheDriver

So a Garda pay rise/allowance/strike stopping payment is not a pay rise and still within the LRA even tho there's no payrises permitted?

I hear some flood gates giving way.......

evolving_doors

worseforwear wrote: »

Not blaming the teachers. Blame the union leadership. They've been outsmarted by the DES. And teachers will suffer

No, I take responsibility as a union member for voting on a point of principal which I still believe in. The leadership acted in their members interests because of a ballot.
Why would I blame others.
It's when you Pat King speaking out both sides of his mouth that I'd apportion blame and misrepresentation.

The fat lady hasn't sang yet Wfw. Hold back that plague of locusts for a while.

TheDriver

No one has blinked yet and there's a lot of staring left to be done

evolving_doors

man_no_plan wrote: »

No different to the hons degree allowance being addaed to the teachers scale.

And the masters allowance?

TheDriver

Problem with masters allowance is that PME is now a masters so its effectively everyone except teacher training direct entry courses

vin33

It's not about right and wrong which is what most of the posts here talk about, it never is. The government had to give in to the guards. The teachers they can use to bring the other unions to heel. Big mistake giving them an excuse not to pay you. They can last longer on this.