ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

What do we expect to happen now

Decide when to withdraw from S&S. I don't see the withdrawal as strike action, it's just following suit from the depts decision to renege on Haddington road. They said they'd pay us for the work and they didn't so we won't do it!

Decide when to go on strike over NQT pay.

I guess the best way forward is to allow dept time to get subs. Best scenario is for schools to stay open and sub teachers being paid until dept see sense.

Remember S&S is an extra duty and not part of core teaching responsibilities (hence why buyouts were allowed!). So teachers coming in to sub and get paid is not crossing a picket. Let em have the money I say.itll just highlight the dept spitefulness against ASTI.

But ya sure, for NQT pay.... THIS is worth striking over. It'll finally address the situation where ASTI supposedly pulled up the ladder.
Don't see how it'll be done outside LR though, unless the dept comes up with something for all teachers.

Inspector Coptoor

Just in home from the protest on Molesworth St.

Kieran Christie is not a great public speaker but I have faith in him in his role as Gen Sec.

The two LPTs that spoke at the rally were very good.

Ed Byrne was quite good.

km79

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'd imagine they'll give notice tomorrow for Monday, 7 November to look more reasonable. Gives them 3.5 more weeks to get the finger out. 7 days notice wouldn't do much for PR, 14 days notice brings you to midterm so may as well give the 3.5w.

100% agree

MrJones1973

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'd imagine they'll give notice tomorrow for Monday, 7 November to look more reasonable. Gives them 3.5 more weeks to get the finger out. 7 days notice wouldn't do much for PR, 14 days notice brings you to midterm so may as well give the 3.5w.

Disputes are not about PR. Teachers worry too much about media. Bus worker's hit hard quickly . You delay you allow department to get its act together. Typical teachers afraid of their shadow! Maximum pain brings results. We ain't going on a picnic . The media hate us. Accept that. You will lose the little public support we have quickly. Its about maximum pissing your employer off asap

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Disputes are not about PR. Teachers worry too much about media. Bus worker's hit hard quickly . You delay you allow department to get its act together. Typical teachers afraid of their shadow! Maximum pain brings results. We ain't going on a picnic . The media hate us. Accept that.

We also have to think about the students .
Starting the action first week back after midterm is the way to go

tayto lover

Public opinion does not pay the bills lads.
Get ready for the fight.
If you lose this you may never win another.

MrJones1973

km79 wrote: »

We also have to think about the students .
Starting the action first week back after midterm is the way to go

Are you for real ? What sort of job are we doing now burdened by cut backs and bull **** initiatives? A properly paid and supported work force is way to support pupils. Would you want a burnt out third class honours graduate teaching your kid ? Thats the future . Most teachers never vetted. Do you want to win dispute ?

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Are you for real ? What sort of job are we doing now burdened by cut backs and bull **** initiatives? A properly paid and supported work force is way to support pupils. Would you want a burnt out third class honours graduate teaching your kid ? Thats the future . Most teachers never vetted. Do you want to win dispute ?

One week extra of S and S is not the winning and losing of this dispute

deiseindublin

I'm not saying that I think they should wait until after midterm, I was answering what I see happening now.

PR is important though, at the end of the day lots of teachers would be brow beaten into voting Yes to LRA3 if they got enough bad press.

joebloggs32

Villain wrote: »

The reporter on RTÉ earlier stated that TUI members etc would behind to get paid tomorrow for S&S does anyone know if that is the case? I know my wife's pay slip today didn't have S&S pay on it

S&S won't appear as an item on the payslip. It is now a part of the salary.
My pay was up today. Maybe her form declaring her TUI membership hadn't been processed in time for her to get paid today.

coillsaille

km79 wrote: »

We also have to think about the students .
Starting the action first week back after midterm is the way to go

PR and fair media coverage are things that teachers lost many years ago and will probably never regain. The DES were notified that this ballot would be held during this term months ago. They already knew at that stage that they wouldn't be giving us the payments promised for SnS so therefore they pretty much knew what the ballot result would be.
As has been said above, we've already done it for free for 6 weeks. The ASTI are a trade union and they need to use the power of industrial action such as this withdrawal to its' maximum effect to fight for what we were promised under an agreement we honoured in full.
A week's notice is appropriate given the time the DES have had to prepare already. As for concern for students if schools close, there are mitigation steps that could be taken.I could see things happening like for example - leavings certs only in for 3 days a weeks, junior certs only for 2 days a week and supervised by management and sub-teachers already in the school.

MrJones1973

km79 wrote: »

One week extra of S and S is not the winning and losing of this dispute

It would be indicative of a of a softly softly approach. Could u see bus workers doing the same ?

tayto lover

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

It would be indicative of a of a softly softly approach. Could u see bus workers doing the same ?

Softly softly is no good. It's just pussy-footing.
Full tilt from the start is the only way.
You have to show them you mean business from the start.

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

It would be indicative of a of a softly softly approach. Could u see bus workers doing the same ?

I think it's in all teachers best interests to allow schools to stay open AND Dept to pay for subs for S&S first. Then the strike Would/should be primarily over NQT pay. I know public opinion isn't worth much but I'd rather the two issues were separated.

If the dept want to pay other PT / unemployed teachers to do s&s I'm delighted not to have to do it (for nothing!).

acequion

Really thrilled with the result and proud of my union. An excellent mandate if ever there was one. Let's use it wisely now!

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Disputes are not about PR. Teachers worry too much about media. Bus worker's hit hard quickly . You delay you allow department to get its act together. Typical teachers afraid of their shadow! Maximum pain brings results. We ain't going on a picnic . The media hate us. Accept that. You will lose the little public support we have quickly. Its about maximum pissing your employer off asap

Totally one hundred percent agree with this post. Teachers have always been afraid of their shadow but there definitely seems to be a hardening of the resolve. But we have to put our money where our mouth is now and go for the jugular. Steely resolve and determination go a long way towards winning disputes,as in the bus workers.There are crucial issues at stake here and an overwhelming mandate to fight for them.

political analyst

coillsaille wrote: »

PR and fair media coverage are things that teachers lost many years ago and will probably never regain. The DES were notified that this ballot would be held during this term months ago. They already knew at that stage that they wouldn't be giving us the payments promised for SnS so therefore they pretty much knew what the ballot result would be.
As has been said above, we've already done it for free for 6 weeks. The ASTI are a trade union and they need to use the power of industrial action such as this withdrawal to its' maximum effect to fight for what we were promised under an agreement we honoured in full.
A week's notice is appropriate given the time the DES have had to prepare already. As for concern for students if schools close, there are mitigation steps that could be taken.I could see things happening like for example - leavings certs only in for 3 days a weeks, junior certs only for 2 days a week and supervised by management and sub-teachers already in the school.

But many principals and deputy principals are ASTI members.

MrJones1973

political analyst wrote: »

But many principals and deputy principals are ASTI members.

Im not sure what your point is ? Not all management these days are Asti. But even if they are they carry out their jobs. They don't really do s and s. They organize it. Nothing will Change that. NAPD is a bastard child of the department. Same for JMB. Neither reconises the other as family but they are family

MrJones1973

tayto lover wrote: »

Public opinion does not pay the bills lads.
Get ready for the fight.
If you lose this you may never win another.

Its in the hands of SC. If they go softly its over and in my mind delaying s and s ban until nov is softly softly. We need 6 days out. Nov. If they fail on both counts its look for the tweak time and im out of the ASTI

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Its in the hands of SC. If they go softly its over and in my mind delaying s and s ban until nov is softly softly. We need 6 days out. Nov. If they fail on both counts its look for the tweak time and im out of the ASTI

Much and all as I agree with most of what you say,Mrwhite, I feel that you're being a tad OTT here and I have often seen you being conciliatory on other issues.

Up to now we have actually acted in a way that is beyond reproach. We've honoured all commitments and taken the proper channels.So waiting a few weeks to ensure that all angles are covered won't do us any harm here. Granted the media hate us and personally there's no love lost as far as i'm concerned but at the end of the day we're teachers, not bus drivers for all I agree with their stance. We're in a caring profession so we do need to show good faith. After that let the war break out!

tosh999

Management in voluntary and community schools are tired of being being used by the DES and resultingly being abused by a minority of staff who vent their anger on local management.

Many Principals will not be prepared to head into recruiting supervisors etc and shoring up the system yet again, knowing that a negotiated settlement will have to be arrived at.

Its my opinion that many Principals will advise their BOM to just shut the schools on Health and Safety grounds in order to speed up the resolution of this absolute mess.

km79

acequion wrote: »

Much and all as I agree with most of what you say,Mrwhite, I feel that you're being a tad OTT here and I have often seen you being conciliatory on other issues.

Up to now we have actually acted in a way that is beyond reproach. We've honoured all commitments and taken the proper channels.So waiting a few weeks to ensure that all angles are covered won't do us any harm here. Granted the media hate us and personally there's no love lost as far as i'm concerned but at the end of the day we're teachers, not bus drivers for all I agree with their stance. We're in a caring profession so we do need to show good faith. After that let the war break out!

I agree with this
It's not even a few weeks
It's one school week
It's the smart and correct move

acequion

tosh999 wrote: »

Management in voluntary and community schools are tired of being being used by the DES and resultingly being abused by a minority of staff who vent their anger on local management.

Many Principals will not be prepared to head into recruiting supervisors etc and shoring up the system yet again, knowing that a negotiated settlement will have to be arrived at.

Its my opinion that many Principals will advise their BOM to just shut the schools on Health and Safety grounds in order to speed up the resolution of this absolute mess.

You'd have to wonder though what will the resolution be. Will we end up in that goddamned Landsdowne Road? I hear Bruton on six one harping on about flexibility on the CP hours.Having done this first term without those awful hours there is just no way I ever want to see them back! I'm an older teacher, still full of enthusiasm and motivation but find the job is full enough as is.And then there's the new JC. Personally I'm ok with a new course but not with CBAs and SLARs. So there are many battles and the DES have already made it clear to the ASTI negotiators that they want everything resolved this time in one settlement.

So what will that settlement look like?

km79

acequion wrote: »

You'd have to wonder though what will the resolution be. Will we end up in that goddamned Landsdowne Road? I hear Bruton on six one harping on about flexibility on the CP hours.Having done this first term without those awful hours there is just no way I ever want to see them back! I'm an older teacher, still full of enthusiasm and motivation but find the job is full enough as is.And then there's the new JC. Personally I'm ok with a new course but not with CBAs and SLARs. So there are many battles and the DES have already made it clear to the ASTI negotiators that they want everything resolved this time in one settlement.

So what will that settlement look like?

That's the million dollar question !
Wholeheartedly agree about the CP hours. I will never vote for any agreement they form any part of . Pointless and demoralizing .
I'd have less of a problem with S and s to be honest And would be more likely to vote for an agreement with that and without croke park hours

feardeas

I have a few observations. The mandate is clear. Full disclosure I'm against this action. I fully accept the result and until such time as voluntary schools become dual union I'll play my part.

I see no point in waiting for s and s notice. Ye want to pull out then give the minimum notice and get on with it. The hell that will come will come regardless.

RE strike. Most lp teachers in my school are not in the union and apparently have no intention of joining.

Why is there no mechanism for strike pay from our union?

Do staff in the union get their salary during strike days or are they waived in solidarity with those of us that they represent.

Do members of standing commitee get expenses for travelling. If they do are these paid to them while they travel around to have their photo taken on strike days?

Given that there isn't strike pay would the union maybe spend money on sending the general secretary to elocution lessons. Fast.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

I have a few observations. The mandate is clear. Full disclosure I'm against this action. I fully accept the result and until such time as voluntary schools become dual union I'll play my part.

I see no point in waiting for s and s notice. Ye want to pull out then give the minimum notice and get on with it. The hell that will come will come regardless.

RE strike. Most lp teachers in my school are not in the union and apparently have no intention of joining.

Why is there no mechanism for strike pay from our union?

Do staff in the union get their salary during strike days or are they waived in solidarity with those of us that they represent.



Do members of standing commitee get expenses for travelling. If they do are these paid to them while they travel around to have their photo taken on strike days?

Given that there isn't strike pay would the union maybe spend money on sending the general secretary to elocution lessons. Fast.

feardeas you obviously voted in the minority and that's fair enough.

But how do you know that there is no strike pay? That's news to me.

Re the GS I completely agree that he's a hopeless public speaker and that's a pity as we get few enough chances to publically express our concerns.

Re union staff getting paid,well they're not teachers,they're not actually striking so is that not a moot point and are you not being a bit bitchy? I mean what difference does it make as long as the union does what it's paid to do and that is represent us? Which means working while we are on strike?

As for the majority in your school not being in a union and not wanting to join, well in the current climate I find that hard to understand. Being in a union means going to local meetings, being vocal and making your voice heard. It's that simple. Not being in a union means being voiceless. It's that simple too.

feardeas

acequion wrote: »

feardeas you obviously voted in the minority and that's fair enough.

But how do you know that there is no strike pay? That's news to me.

This will be the third time I have been on strike since I started teaching. Once as part of the full public sector day of action in the winter of 2009 [I think] and twice in the winter of 2014 as part of the junior cycle dispute. We did not receive strike pay on those occasions.

Re union staff getting paid,well they're not teachers,they're not actually striking so is that not a moot point and are you not being a bit bitchy? I mean what difference does it make as long as the union does what it's paid to do and that is represent us? Which means working while we are on strike?

I'm not being bitchy. I simply think that it would be a move in solidarity. I'm not necessarily referring to admin staff but perhaps the general secretary who is on a salary linked to PO in the civil service could, ditto for his deputies. Just an observation. Mind you it seems that IR in HQ may not be that healthy anyway.

Walter2016

Has there ever been a year where asti members did not threaten or hold a strike?

If they put as much effort into teaching as they do into their annual "we're going on strike" mission, the country would be awash with geniuses.

The_Valeyard

Walter2016 wrote: »

Has there ever been a year where asti members did not threaten or hold a strike?

If they put as much effort into teaching as they do into their annual "we're going on strike" mission, the country would be awash with geniuses.

Yawn.

Inspector Coptoor

Walter2016 wrote: »

Has there ever been a year where asti members did not threaten or hold a strike?

If they put as much effort into teaching as they do into their annual "we're going on strike" mission, the country would be awash with geniuses.

Jog on troll, jog on.