ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

Inspector Coptoor

deiseindublin wrote: »

I think you'd need that to do their job to be fair. More power to them.

Oh absolutely.
My father was a Garda for over 30 years.
I know what it's like for them.
I very nearly joined the Gardai over 12 years ago but chose teaching.

They are worth their pay.

People like Ed Walsh who has been on a pension of €100k a year scratching his hole for 13 years after getting €285k lump sum coming out with bile can jog on

Sarah3

vin33 wrote: »

Whether it's true or not, those/we who work in the private sector look with envy on the hours that teachers work. For sure it's true that our pensions don't come anywhere near and most people don't have a clue about this. If they did you would have no sympathy.
That actually is the point, because you could win this purely on your lpt point because the public are quite ignorant. So play that card.

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

evolving_doors

Sarah3 wrote: »

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

Maybe if we only did our prep and corrections during the daytime.

Have you got our tests corrected from yesterday's tests miss?
Yissl get em the end of next month johnny.
Why so late miss?
Because I've decided to have a life when I go home johnny. A life.

Villain

Sarah3 wrote: »

Vin33, I am a current serving teacher but previous to my teaching career I worked in the private sector in a managerial role. I frequently worked more than my required 39 hours pw in that role and since becoming a teacher I can honestly say I now work more hours pw than previously when I take into account time in the evenings and at the weekend spent lesson planning, correcting tests etc. My husband frequently looks on wondering why I don't return to my previous job where I was paid more and my evenings could be spent with my family not working for my students. This is an all too frequent misconception with the general public that when the students finish the teachers also finish but never so.

My wife is a teacher and also my Brother, they have never worked 39 hours in a week so lets not tar all teachers with either brush

Notorious

Villain wrote: »

My wife is a teacher and also my Brother, they have never worked 39 hours in a week so lets not tar all teachers with either brush

Well all know a teacher who clocks out once they've done their last class of the day. From my experience, they're in the minority.

TheDriver

It now seems that Gardaí on ground aren't too happy about their new proposals and probably feel they can get things they want. It's turning into a right mess for the Govt, even Varadkar is keeping quiet at moment

judeboy101

TheDriver wrote: »

It now seems that Gardaí on ground aren't too happy about their new proposals and probably feel they can get things they want. It's turning into a right mess for the Govt, even Varadkar is keeping quiet at moment

Useless to us. The gov will have us broken to pieces by time they ballot. We all know what happens when someone stands up to a bully, he goes harder on the next victim. The guards gave FG a bloody nose, they will take it out on us.��

acequion

judeboy101 wrote: »

Useless to us. The gov will have us broken to pieces by time they ballot. We all know what happens when someone stands up to a bully, he goes harder on the next victim. The guards gave FG a bloody nose, they will take it out on us.��

You're probably right but what else can we do but hold our ground.Posters are right when they say we are naieve and that we shouldnt have given them an opportunity to lock us out.But backing down is unthinkable.However I still cannot fathom the legality of withholding our pay and hope that can be challenged.Id also feel betrayed by BOMs.But with many,perhaps most, still in the hands of religious orders am not surprised.

man_no_plan

acequion wrote: »

You're probably right but what else can we do but hold our ground.Posters are right when they say we are naieve and that we shouldnt have given them an opportunity to lock us out.But backing down is unthinkable.However I still cannot fathom the legality of withholding our pay and hope that can be challenged.Id also feel betrayed by BOMs.But with many,perhaps most, still in the hands of religious orders am not surprised.

I think the BOMs closing schools is the biggest problem here.

Does anyone know if their BOM has interviewed supervisors and applied for Garda getting yet? Dispute or not they could have being doing plenty over the past three weeks.

Do you think the TUI package, accelerated a bit plus the option to opt out extended to all would be palatable? Option for teachers in the scheme to be paid for extra supervision up to say, 60 hours per year?

A mass opt out would close schools though.

feardeas

man_no_plan wrote:

Do you think the TUI package, accelerated a bit plus the option to opt out extended to all would be palatable? Option for teachers in the scheme to be paid for extra supervision up to say, 60 hours per year?

I'm not sure there's a consensus on what is wanted TBH. That's where a lack of strategy as I see it is the downfall of all this. Perhaps I'm wrong and there is a plan. I've rarely hopes cup be wrong as much.

Inspector Coptoor

We are in on Monday with school open to Exam years.

Interesting times ahead.

km79

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

We are in on Monday with school open to Exam years.

Interesting times ahead.

asti only school?

evolving_doors

Villain wrote: »

My wife is a teacher and also my Brother, they have never worked 39 hours in a week so lets not tar all teachers with either brush

How long is their school day?
If they are on full time when do they do corrections. Fair play if they can get it all done during the day but I find it hard to believe... Did they tell you they never do 39hrs?
I'm intrigued.. What's their subjects?

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

It now seems that Gardaí on ground aren't too happy about their new proposals and probably feel they can get things they want. It's turning into a right mess for the Govt, even Varadkar is keeping quiet at moment

Wow, that's unusual !
He'll probably jump in once Coveney grabs the mic.

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

Useless to us. The gov will have us broken to pieces by time they ballot. We all know what happens when someone stands up to a bully, he goes harder on the next victim. The guards gave FG a bloody nose, they will take it out on us.��

The Govt has set a precedent by giving a good deal to the guards. That makes a review of LRA more likely.

Inspector Coptoor

km79 wrote: »

asti only school?

Yes.
Quite a few non-union teachers on faculty.

deiseindublin

Don't turn on Radio1 CB show unless you have blood pressure tablets beside you.

political analyst

Why doesn't the ASTI challenge the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S in the courts?

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

Why doesn't the ASTI challenge the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S in the courts?

How long will that take? Gov have no problem dragging couples whose kids have suffered damage in birth through the courts for years.

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

How long will that take? Gov have no problem dragging couples whose kids have suffered damage in birth through the courts for years.

Here's an even better idea - how about parents seek an injunction in the High Court to force the Govt to pay ASTI members for S&S on the grounds that refusal to pay for S&S violates the Govt's constitutional obligation to provide for education?

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

Here's an even better idea - how about parents seek an injunction in the High Court to force the Govt to pay ASTI members for S&S on the grounds that refusal to pay for S&S violates the Govt's constitutional obligation to provide for education?

No constitutional right to secondary education only primary didn't that yank in cork try that with her autistic son and supreme count ruled only primary?

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

No constitutional right to secondary education only primary didn't that yank in cork try that with her autistic son and supreme count ruled only primary?

The Jamie Sinnott case was about primary education for people who have special needs and are under the age of 18 years. The Supreme Court didn't say anything about secondary education.

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

The Jamie Sinnott case was about primary education for people who have special needs and are under the age of 18 years. The Supreme Court didn't say anything about secondary education.

From what I remember the court said the states only duty to any citizen was a primary education. They made no reference to special needs , that was her spin on it.

deiseindublin

Wonder when/if we'll hear how talks today went? From news it sounded like they weren't meeting til 2pm or 3pm.

km79

deiseindublin wrote: »

Wonder when/if we'll hear how talks today went? From news it sounded like they weren't meeting til 2pm or 3pm.

within next hour I predict
",no progress blah blah blah"
more talks tomorrow
Announced for news
"industrial action deferred "

trilobite80

A colleague was confronted by some parents in local shop regarding lack of info about closure Monday.
It's getting gradually nasty.

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

within next hour I predict
",no progress blah blah blah"
more talks tomorrow
Announced for news
"industrial action deferred "

No deferral, FG want us as whipping boys for rest of ICTU

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

No deferral, FG want us as whipping boys for rest of ICTU

maybe it's us that will concede ......

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

maybe it's us that will concede ......

Union following 1916 approach, blood sacrifice etc. We need to suffer and it needs to be shown to membership how management, parents and trustees care nothing for us. That way the failure will be less harmful to the union in the future. Kinda like hardening a stick by burning away the softness.

feardeas

judeboy101 wrote:

Union following 1916 approach, blood sacrifice etc. We need to suffer and it needs to be shown to membership how management, parents and trustees care nothing for us. That way the failure will be less harmful to the union in the future. Kinda like hardening a stick by burning away the softness.

I hope that's hyperbole. If not members need to leave like the wild geese (to borrow from another historic moment.)