ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

political analyst

The Govt will be blamed along with the ASTI if the schools are closed for weeks on end. It would have been a disaster for the Government if serious crimes had taken place during a Garda strike. So how could it not be a disaster for the Govt if thousands of students perform poorly in the Junior and Leaving Cert exams because it let the closures take place?

political analyst

judeboy101 wrote: »

Union following 1916 approach, blood sacrifice etc. We need to suffer and it needs to be shown to membership how management, parents and trustees care nothing for us. That way the failure will be less harmful to the union in the future. Kinda like hardening a stick by burning away the softness.

The ASTI was down that road before. The reputation of secondary teachers was damaged by the industrial action that took place in 2000 and 2001.

judeboy101

political analyst wrote: »

The ASTI was down that road before. The reputation of secondary teachers was damaged by the industrial action that took place in 2000 and 2001.

And yet we are regularly most trusted profession along with docs and guards!! Screw reputation, manys the man starved on a good reputation.

deiseindublin

No progress today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-set-to-stay-shut-on-monday-as-asti-talks-conclude-for-the-evening-35191074.html

km79

deiseindublin wrote: »

No progress today.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-set-to-stay-shut-on-monday-as-asti-talks-conclude-for-the-evening-35191074.html

What are they "talking " about for hours on end
Gimme
No
Gimme
No
Gimme
No

Ok see ye tomorrow

Icsics

There will be no progress, the Dept are holding out & will concede nothing. Schools will close, buts lets face it, it's the Gods in the JMB who are 'advising' weak BOMs to close them.

Villain

Gebgbegb wrote: »

How long is their school day?
If they are on full time when do they do corrections. Fair play if they can get it all done during the day but I find it hard to believe... Did they tell you they never do 39hrs?
I'm intrigued.. What's their subjects?

Art and PE, as I said lets not tar all Teachers will ANY brush

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

I hope that's hyperbole. If not members need to leave like the wild geese (to borrow from another historic moment.)

Ah come on feardeas!! You'd swear the asti leaders forced this on an unwilling membership the way you're going on.Have you forgotten that 80 percent voted for this!! I know that you're in the other 20 percent and of course you should leave if your beliefs are closer to TUI and if they can represent you
But dont forget you're in the minority. Yes the minority willl gradually grow and could even become the majority.But end of the day a big majority wanted to go down this road because they were sick of being compliant and getting screwed.This is scary territory but Im glad we're here at last. Oh and by the way what did you mean by strategy? Apart from the fact that we could have played the S&S one better what other strategy is there? Tell me what you think could have been done better here as Im curious.

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

No constitutional right to secondary education only primary didn't that yank in cork try that with her autistic son and supreme count ruled only primary?

tone down the personal colloquialisms a bit JB
Mod

MrJones1973

It's very frustrating that nothing is emerging from talks ie we have no idea if the government have offered anything or the asti given ground but yet we are going unpaid from tomorrow?

deiseindublin

I don't understand how CP hours are such a big issue for ASTI/Bruton when they didn't even figure in the GRA talks.

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

maybe it's us that will concede ......

Could go either way really.. Last one into LR could be ASTI.. Or first to lead the charge out of LR!

km79

I think the Landscape has now changed significantly
The nurses are now balloting for strike
LRA is a dead duck
We do not need to be sacrificial lambs now
Union needs to realize this ........

Villain

km79 wrote: »

I think the Landscape has now changed significantly
The nurses are now balloting for strike
LRA is a dead duck
We do not need to be sacrificial lambs now
Union needs to realize this ........

Timing is the issue though, it's going to take time for that Landscape to change and in the mean time the Dept is going to hold firm and there won't be anything for ASTI to suspend action on and ballot unless they fold, timing is everything!

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

I think the Landscape has now changed significantly
The nurses are now balloting for strike
LRA is a dead duck
We do not need to be sacrificial lambs now
Union needs to realize this ........

Ha! They'll get the steel on the ASTI, same as the Gardai... Meanwhile ASTI still on strike while Gardai nurses are back in LR 1.1...

man_no_plan

If this drags on it will have to go to the labour court. Will they be likely to better the agreement they hammered out with the other unions?

Until this payroll/lockout craic started the ASTI were half okay. If you gain a bit well and good if you don't there's still the bit to be got from the other agreement. The problem now is the personal cost to teachers might be a bit high.

Would the ASTI lift the directive on principals for a week to let them sort external supervisors? Might let the schools open and take the pressure off, there will hardly be enough people interested in doing the supervision which might close the schools anyway. At least it would leave teachers in the clear. Or would that be seen as a sign of weakness?

If the DES back down on the 33hours its game over for LRA.

km79

man_no_plan wrote: »

If this drags on it will have to go to the labour court. Will they be likely to better the agreement they hammered out with the other unions?

Until this payroll/lockout craic started the ASTI were half okay. If you gain a bit well and good if you don't there's still the bit to be got from the other agreement. The problem now is the personal cost to teachers might be a bit high.

Would the ASTI lift the directive on principals for a week to let them sort external supervisors? Might let the schools open and take the pressure off, there will hardly be enough people interested in doing the supervision which might close the schools anyway. At least it would leave teachers in the clear. Or would that be seen as a sign of weakness?

If the DES back down on the 33hours its game over for LRA.

Something has to give on some side
And that's a reasonable suggestion but it may be too late for it

man_no_plan

deiseindublin wrote: »

I don't understand how CP hours are such a big issue for ASTI/Bruton when they didn't even figure in the GRA talks.

If the gardai accept the agreement it brings them Into the LRA which includes the extra hours. Same as the TUI agreement.

paddybarry

heres a reasonable suggestion - pay teachers the money owed under haddington road. S and S issue solved and schools open.

political analyst

What is the exact reason for the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S (apart from the ASTI's rejection of LRA)?

political analyst

Villain wrote: »

Timing is the issue though, it's going to take time for that Landscape to change and in the mean time the Dept is going to hold firm and there won't be anything for ASTI to suspend action on and ballot unless they fold, timing is everything!

But it would be political suicide for the Govt to cost Junior and Leaving Cert students their academic prospects.

paddybarry

political analyst wrote: »

What is the exact reason for the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S (apart from the ASTI's rejection of LRA)?

There is none. They are trying to bully us into LRA by not paying it.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

What is the exact reason for the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S (apart from the ASTI's rejection of LRA)?

None

paddybarry

ASTI have the upperhand now. This is no time to panic. This is a battle we cannot afford to lose. Longer next week drags on without schools open, the greater will be the pressure on the government.

Iused2likebusts

paddybarry wrote: »

ASTI have the upperhand now. This is no time to panic. This is a battle we cannot afford to lose. Longer next week drags on without schools open, the greater will be the pressure on the government.

Exactly I'm prepared to tough it out. That supervision money ends up being worth 350 euro but them not paying us for it was a step too far and I'm not for backing down.

man_no_plan

political analyst wrote: »

What is the exact reason for the Govt's refusal to pay ASTI members for S&S (apart from the ASTI's rejection of LRA)?

Well I think that , from a legal point of view, the restoration of cuts imposed by FEMPI can only be ameliorated while in a collective agreement.

Peppa Pig

paddybarry wrote: »

heres a reasonable suggestion - pay teachers the money owed under haddington road. S and S issue solved and schools open.

Is this strike not about newer teachers pay. How will S&S payments open the schools on Tuesday?

km79

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Is this strike not about newer teachers pay. How will S&S payments open the schools on Tuesday?

They won't
But they will open the schools Monday weds Thursday Friday

paddybarry

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Is this strike not about newer teachers pay. How will S&S payments open the schools on Tuesday?

There are four issues at play
1. Equal pay for LPTs
2. S and S payments
3. Croke Park Hours
4. JC reform

Strike on Tuesday and five remaining days before Christmas will go ahead unless point 1 is addressed.

BOMs are choosing to close schools on point number 2 due to concerns about health and safety. This will happen on Monday and some schools will remain closed until this matter is resolved. As mentioned above, if Dept simply honoured the Haddington Road agreement, then schools would open.

Peppa Pig

paddybarry wrote: »

There are four issues at play
1. Equal pay for LPTs
2. S and S payments
3. Croke Park Hours
4. JC reform

From reading the thread I get this, but am I misinformed that the strike was called over the new teachers and nothing else, or all four issues?