ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

maude6868

We're not allowed in, locked out tomorrow and I've never done S&S. Hope the opt out money will be refunded now that the 'irrevocable' contract I signed which disallowed me from ever again opting in has been torn up by the Dept.

political analyst

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I love Logans Run! I got to be honest not looking forward to sitting around staff room talking **** . I must find a place I can do some work:eek:

A lot of the staff are Outer party material at best:p

Why are you mentioning a film in which people are killed when they reach the age of 30 years? By the way, I haven't seen it.

Eintrachtrob

maude6868 wrote: »

We're not allowed in, locked out tomorrow and I've never done S&S. Hope the opt out money will be refunded now that the 'irrevocable' contract I signed which disallowed me from ever again opting in has been torn up by the Dept.

Do you know a good solicitor or employment barrister?

I'd be onto them in a flash if I were in your circumstances (which I could have been, instead I opted IN to S&S)

solerina

Are many schools doing the whole 'bring in sixth years so we have students in' cop out ?? There are two near me who are doing just that, one of them is only bringing in sixth years until Lunchtime so they can get paid.....we are still definately locked out.

political analyst

It is increasingly likely that LRA will be reviewed. What is the point in putting off the review?

km79

do we know if the talks are still ongoing ??????
if they are then there is a last minute deal brewing

Eintrachtrob

solerina wrote: »

Are many schools doing the whole 'bring in sixth years so we have students in' cop out ?? There are two near me who are doing just that, one of them is only bringing in sixth years until Lunchtime so they can get paid.....we are still definately locked out.

Zero evidence so far that they will be paid for bringing in 6th years only.

Bruton wants all - S&S done & a full timetable covered by every teacher tomorrow in exchange for payment.

Eintrachtrob

km79 wrote: »

do we know if the talks are still ongoing ??????
if they are then there is a last minute deal brewing

RTE have stated that the talks have concluded for today with no breakthrough.

Consequently whatever plans your BoM have in place APPEAR to be what is going to happen tomorrow.

pandoraj09

Well there's nothing in the news saying they've stopped the talks...God i wish they'd report back..

maude6868

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

Do you know a good solicitor or employment barrister?

I'd be onto them in a flash if I were in your circumstances (which I could have been, instead I opted IN to S&S)

I'm seriously thinking of it I'm so incensed to be locked out of my place of employment. That contract I signed was worded in a threatening way and I had to confirm that I was aware the opt out was irrevocable from when I signed to when I retire. All the articles I've seen today have led with thousands of students to be locked out of school due to teachers dispute, nothing about the number of teachers who will be locked out.

km79

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

RTE have stated that the talks have concluded for today with no breakthrough.

Consequently whatever plans your BoM have in place APPEAR to be what is going to happen tomorrow.

I watched the news and they intimated that no breakthrough had been made but did not say talks were finished up
That's why I'm wondering
They would usually have a bit of video or an interview of one or both sides leaving talks

Eintrachtrob

pandoraj09 wrote: »

Well there's nothing in the news saying they've stopped the talks...God i wish they'd report back..

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1106/829498-asti-pay-dispute/

stanley1980

judeboy101 wrote: »

There are DROVES of young teachers in your school!! You do realise that alot of teachers post '11 would not consider themselves 'young' either then or now. That's a little bit ageist tbh and next you'll be suggesting some sort of Logans run style removal of 'older teachers'.

Yep there were a lot or retirements in my school (including people who got early retirement packages on far superior terms than younger people will get!) I'm in my mid 30's and refer to people a few years younger than me as 'young teachers'. The silence from people my age and older on all this has been positively deafening. Why didn't unions pull out of deals back then which affected new entrants so negatively? The truth of the matter is/was that the majority of people in both unions are older, settled teachers with secure futures and they didn't give s**t about their younger members. Or maybe I've somehow forgotten the strikes at the time in protest...wait a minute no I haven't 'cause there were none! Why didn't older teachers take a small pay cut to ensure younger colleagues were looked after and wouldn't take the brunt? Same as above.
You might not like what I'm saying but that doesn't make it wrong. As stated, have a look around your next ASTI meeting- younger people will be noticeable by their absence. ASTI AND to a slightly lesser extent TUI have serious lack of credibility. The fact that there remains to be 2 secondary unions really highlights where their priorities are i.e. self-preservation/ maintaining the status quo for the fortunate ones.

pandoraj09

Yeah, just checked on RTE website...Talks over. No break through..

km79

Now what ............the union better have a strategy

evolving_doors

What if you don't teach 6th yrs?
Then it's just going in doing prep work... Fair enough...
But how can one ASTI school allow all staff in for a few students... Then another ASTI school lock the gates even though teachers are presenting themselves...
What if it's an ASTI school.. Then a 6th yr teacher is out sick, who supervises?

stanley1980

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think you are dealing in bull. Apologies but you are. There is no evidence of this bar your word. Kieran Christie stated on national TV. We are going on 7 days of strike. What exactly has TUI done? Did a TUI member lose a day of pay yet???
Btw-if you are in a voluntary Secondary school then it doesnt matter what union you are in or none-your CID is still after 4 years.
You might have teachers in dual schools opting for TUI but its nearly impossible to say whether they might have done that anyway. This will be resolved one way or another by DEC-if spineless young teachers decide to join the TUI-it aint going to make a shred of difference to their status and the TUI are welcome to them.

So I'm dealing in bull? How so? Care to qualify that? Are you suggesting I'm lying and that non-affiliated union teachers haven't been signing to TUI in large numbers recently? I don't care for TUI either incidently however there's no doubt they've negotiated far better than ASTI to date.
You refer to young teachers who join TUI as 'spineless'?! How dare you. How can you blame any young person trying to secure their future, buy a home, get a loan etc etc. (see CID) Particularly when their more senior colleagues have sold them down the river so blatantly in recent years. Such a comment says a lot for the militant ASTI/union mainstays i.e. people with little to lose and even more to gain.

Moody_mona

TheDriver wrote: »

Can I add a thought on the whole BOM part and the JMB. Wearing my Principal's hat, its an awful minefield and I find the management bodies are (trying to) advising on the best way to manage a school. BOMs can have members who aren't well informed or just not interested and days like tomorrow are a difficult situation to deal with. On one hand, we are union members who want our union to win. On the other hand, we are responsible if we can't look after our kids and the directive means we can't ask people to make sure everyone stays safe at lunch tomorrow. Now thats not to say the JMB may not be doing the wisest thing but the amount of emails and correspondence from ACSS, ETBi and JMB over the last 3 weeks and surveys from the DESk is also frustrating and sickening.
Its not an ideal situation and of course a BOM should be looking after their staff and students but with such uncertainty, there are many modes of responsibility to be looked at when or if it came to opening the gates tomorrow.
I don't know if the course of action by many BOMs is the best, or if some were thinking they are helping by closing (pseudo supporting the cause etc) but its not as simple as what some posters here are stating.

Appreciate the different perspective, the honesty and the difficulty in this post. I don't know what to think of my BOM though. We are open to staff tomorrow, but closed Tuesday. Half and half staff union wise, senior management are TUI. We've been put in a position Where asti have to spend the day in school tomorrow not being paid, but TUI are to stay at home Tuesday and they don't have to address the picket. I feel disappointed and let down, and that I'm being punished for being in the union that I am.

Inspector Coptoor

stanley1980 wrote: »

Yep there were a lot or retirements in my school (including people who got early retirement packages on far superior terms than younger people will get!) I'm in my mid 30's and refer to people a few years younger than me as 'young teachers'. The silence from people my age and older on all this has been positively deafening. Why didn't unions pull out of deals back then which affected new entrants so negatively? The truth of the matter is/was that the majority of people in both unions are older, settled teachers with secure futures and they didn't give s**t about their younger members. Or maybe I've somehow forgotten the strikes at the time in protest...wait a minute no I haven't 'cause there were none! Why didn't older teachers take a small pay cut to ensure younger colleagues were looked after and wouldn't take the brunt? Same as above.
You might not like what I'm saying but that doesn't make it wrong. As stated, have a look around your next ASTI meeting- younger people will be noticeable by their absence. ASTI AND to a slightly lesser extent TUI have serious lack of credibility. The fact that there remains to be 2 secondary unions really highlights where their priorities are i.e. self-preservation/ maintaining the status quo for the fortunate ones.

I'm the same Age as you give or take.
I'm the Steward in my school and regularly attend branch meetings.

Your "points" are very unfair on "older", "settled" teachers who all took pay cuts, USC and pension levy since 2010.

No teacher voted for any of this.

Are you aware that striking wasn't an option when a union is inside a the collective agreements of the CPA, HRA and LRA?

THATS why there was no strike until now.

You really need to get that chip off your shoulder.

Any young teacher joining the TUI is taking the soup so to speak.
They are being extremely myopic and opting to take some more money now instead of fighting the corner for better money for the duration of their careers.
I can see why they would do it but I don't agree with it.

This is my 11th year teaching.
I got my CID after year 9.
I know what it's like to have no security of tenure.

I can't understand how you can slag off the credibility of the ASTI, the ONLY union doing any fighting and forgoing and pay by striking.

As soon as the Gardai got a bit of cash, the other unions like vultures come circling.
They want all the benefits without doing any of the grunt work.

km79

Moody_mona wrote: »

Appreciate the different perspective, the honesty and the difficulty in this post. I don't know what to think of my BOM though. We are open to staff tomorrow, but closed Tuesday. Half and half staff union wise, senior management are TUI. We've been put in a position Where asti have to spend the day in school tomorrow not being paid, but TUI are to stay at home Tuesday and they don't have to address the picket. I feel disappointed and let down, and that I'm being punished for being in the union that I am.

If your school is open tomorrow you are paid ?

Moody_mona

km79 wrote: »

If your school is open tomorrow you are paid ?

No, only paid if students are in. We're closed yo students, open to staff.

Inspector Coptoor

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What if you don't teach 6th yrs?
Then it's just going in doing prep work... Fair enough...
But how can one ASTI school allow all staff in for a few students... Then another ASTI school lock the gates even though teachers are presenting themselves...
What if it's an ASTI school.. Then a 6th yr teacher is out sick, who supervises?

"Windfall" hours when a teacher is freed up by a class not being in can be used in this case.

Teacher A has a 2nd year class and they aren't in as they aren't exam year.
Teacher B has 6th years but isn't in due to illness.
Teacher A can be asked to take the class.
This doesn't fall under the S&S scheme and the HM or DHM can ask Teacher A to take the class.

evolving_doors

Moody_mona wrote: »

Appreciate the different perspective, the honesty and the difficulty in this post. I don't know what to think of my BOM though. We are open to staff tomorrow, but closed Tuesday. Half and half staff union wise, senior management are TUI. We've been put in a position Where asti have to spend the day in school tomorrow not being paid, but TUI are to stay at home Tuesday and they don't have to address the picket. I feel disappointed and let down, and that I'm being punished for being in the union that I am.

No matter what union you are in you have to take the rough with the smooth. Hence why they have bargaining rights, if the opposing negotiator thought that a unions members would jump ship at the first sign of hardship then it's not good.

Can anyone give some hard facts as to the number of teachers ' leaving the ASTI in droves to join the TUI '.
How do people know this? Are they sitting in the TUI offices with a list of ASTI members and crossing names off. Went would the TUI leak this to the media?
Sounds like spin.

What I do think is happening is that more teachers are joining a union (either one!).

Moody_mona

Gebgbegb wrote: »

No matter what union you are in you have to take the rough with the smooth. Hence why they have bargaining rights, if the opposing negotiator thought that a unions members would jump ship at the first sign of hardship then it's not good.

Can anyone give some heard facts as to the number of teachers ' leaving the ASTI in droves to join the TUI '.
How do people know this? Are they sitting in the TUI offices with a list of ASTI members and crossing names off.

What I do think is happening is that more teachers are joining a union (either one!).

I don't want to jump ship! I just my BOM to declare the school closed both days and now favour one union over the other.

km79

Moody_mona wrote: »

No, only paid if students are in. We're closed yo students, open to staff.

Who confirmedthis ?

maude6868

Moody_mona wrote: »

Appreciate the different perspective, the honesty and the difficulty in this post. I don't know what to think of my BOM though. We are open to staff tomorrow, but closed Tuesday. Half and half staff union wise, senior management are TUI. We've been put in a position Where asti have to spend the day in school tomorrow not being paid, but TUI are to stay at home Tuesday and they don't have to address the picket. I feel disappointed and let down, and that I'm being punished for being in the union that I am.

I too feel I'm punished for being in a union and now locked out for being in a union, not since 1913 has that happened here.

Moody_mona

km79 wrote: »

Who confirmedthis ?

The department circular said if no students were present, we wouldn't be paid. Give me a minute to get the reference.

maude6868

km79 wrote: »

Who confirmedthis ?

In circumstances where a school is not in a position to open for students as a result
of the withdrawal of teachers from their duties relating to S&S, teachers who have
not confirmed their availability for the full range of duties including S&S duties (i.e.
who have not submitted a completed and signed form to the Principal of their
school) will not be paid for the duration of the closure.

It's in a circular regarding the dispute on ASTI site

Moody_mona

^ thanks Maud. Circular 0071/2016

amacca

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I'm the same Age as you give or take.
I'm the Steward in my school and regularly attend branch meetings.

Your "points" are very unfair on "older", "settled" teachers who all took pay cuts, USC and pension levy since 2010.

No teacher voted for any of this.

Are you aware that striking wasn't an option when a union is inside a the collective agreements of the CPA, HRA and LRA?

THATS why there was no strike until now.

You really need to get that chip off your shoulder.

Any young teacher joining the TUI is taking the soup so to speak.
They are being extremely myopic and opting to take some more money now instead of fighting the corner for better money for the duration of their careers.
I can see why they would do it but I don't agree with it.

This is my 11th year teaching.
I got my CID after year 9.
I know what it's like to have no security of tenure.

I can't understand how you can slag off the credibility of the ASTI, the ONLY union doing any fighting and forgoing and pay by striking.

As soon as the Gardai got a bit of cash, the other unions like vultures come circling.
They want all the benefits without doing any of the grunt work.

well said imo.....though it seems no matter how many times its said the older teachers sold younger ones out malarkey keeps being regurgitated