ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

km79

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

Any deal sorted out would probably involve us coming in for the Feb midterm or Easter in exchange for payment for tomorrow or Wednesday (if it goes that far). .

But we will be at work tomorrow so that won't be acceptable

stanley1980

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Hi Stanley. Funnily enough, I agree with several of your points. There is no doubt that the system is archaic but many industries/companies /sectors are too. But I think that's a discussion for another day.

I see that you are a non union member. Perfectly entitled to be. Just wondering, say that the ASTI secure a deal with increments returning for pre 2011 teachers like you and I. Will you forego it as somebody who let others battle on? Also, did you forego the pay last Thursday too? Just curious.

Fair enough. Want my honest opinion? I feel I get paid a decent and fair wage especially considering the holidays I get which are pretty incredible.Of course I'd like to be a millionaire-who wouldn't?! Added to the fact that I genuinely like my job i feel extremely lucky. I would be more than prepared to forego increments etc to ensure younger colleagues get a leg up and we are paid fairly across the board. That's what should've happened to begin with. It can't always be someone else who takes a hit. There's a finite amount of money for governments to play with.
I informed my principal I was available for work last Thursday but the school was closed so not much I could do. I fundamentally don't agree with closing down schools and having students miss out. Worse still for me is that because of union directives there are children who will now lose 10% of their grade in JC English. That's not what I got into teaching for.

judeboy101

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

Any deal sorted out would probably involve us coming in for the Feb midterm or Easter in exchange for payment for tomorrow or Wednesday (if it goes that far). .

Because there is such a varied response by bom's that won't happen. Plus its not like a snow day (which has a circular to back up recouping the lost days)

MrJones1973

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Have you raised it at a union meeting?
Maybe it's a school issue more so than a union matter. Our school has changed so that ALL student teachers are shadowed for the first few days.
Maybe put it forward for consideration at your next staff meeting, why wait for other to do it.

It's a bit besides the point anyway.

Anyhow I must go and do up my household budget, seeing as how I've just blown the Christmas fund by going on strike for LPT's of all unions and none. Many of whom btw will be getting paid while I'm on strike. Many of whom openly laughed at us for having to go on the picket while they stayed in the scratcher.
Many of whom never joined a union but expected representation.
Many of whom have the union reps ear bent about their contract, but never paid or never will pay a sub.
The most active and vociferous defenders of the profession are/were the older members (this is the reason why the govt. retired them off early too!).
It was ALWAYS the way that you had to do the #### low hours before you got a whiff of permanency. CID for 2Years or 4 it matters not, if they want to keep you they will and if they don't then they won't.
The Hours culture and CID's are the curse of the profession.

You just got to do the right thing because its the right thing. Im sick of hearing young entrants whinge about CID. 2-4 years and guaranteed permanency. I know most teachers over 40 waited at least 5-7 years and went a few summers without being paid.
But to be fair a lot of new teachers actively engage in the ASTI and are are leading a fightback.

MrJones1973

Im a bit sick of hearing about students missing out when TULSA are a joke in terms of getting school shy students into the building and schools dont have the MGT to pursue chronic absenteeism. Of course the way Dept view it-its entirely your fault as a teacher-dont you know!

km79

Is anyone else just WORN out reading and listening and talking about this .
Been on my mind the entire break.
Hope it's sorted early this week cos the parents won't be long turning on us .........

MrJones1973

stanley1980 wrote: »

Fair enough. Want my honest opinion? I feel I get paid a decent and fair wage especially considering the holidays I get which are pretty incredible.Of course I'd like to be a millionaire-who wouldn't?! Added to the fact that I genuinely like my job i feel extremely lucky. I would be more than prepared to forego increments etc to ensure younger colleagues get a leg up and we are paid fairly across the board. That's what should've happened to begin with. It can't always be someone else who takes a hit. There's a finite amount of money for governments to play with.
I informed my principal I was available for work last Thursday but the school was closed so not much I could do. I fundamentally don't agree with closing down schools and having students miss out. Worse still for me is that because of union directives there are children who will now lose 10% of their grade in JC English. That's not what I got into teaching for.

Ah come on? Miss 10% of what? A final school report? Not the SEC part. Dont believe the propaganda from Bruton. Next he will be surrounding himself with weeping students as he walks around the place. As for Foregoing increments -you might be in such a position but dont assume everybody else can.
As for finite amount of money-these guys cant predict anything. in 2015-growth was predicted at 2.5% . It was actually almost twice that. We can throw money into water meters with a bogus argument they improve conservation. Didnt you smell the privatization coming down the tracks? Did you buy eircom shares?
We can tell Apple-keep your 13 billion? We can keep corporation tax at the lowest in EU-because Paddy wont mind?
Think for yourself a bit (seriously)

Eintrachtrob

stanley1980 wrote: »

Fair enough. Want my honest opinion? I feel I get paid a decent and fair wage especially considering the holidays I get which are pretty incredible.Of course I'd like to be a millionaire-who wouldn't?! Added to the fact that I genuinely like my job i feel extremely lucky. I would be more than prepared to forego increments etc to ensure younger colleagues get a leg up and we are paid fairly across the board. That's what should've happened to begin with. It can't always be someone else who takes a hit. There's a finite amount of money for governments to play with.
I informed my principal I was available for work last Thursday but the school was closed so not much I could do. I fundamentally don't agree with closing down schools and having students miss out. Worse still for me is that because of union directives there are children who will now lose 10% of their grade in JC English. That's not what I got into teaching for.

They're not losing 10% of their grade, they're getting marked out of 100 on the rest.

Holidays are incredible? It's number of class contact hours that matter and teachers in Ireland work the highest class contact time with students among OECD countries. Teaching is recognised as a stressful and difficult job, so there's a logical reason for the holidays. Otherwise you'd have burnout by 30 for most teachers.

Furthermore the ASTI are not closing down any school tomorrow morning. The person primarily resposnsible for this is the Minister, so take it up with him. He agreed to pay teachers for S&S from 01 Sept without precondition in the Haddington Road Agreement, backed up by department circular 0006/2014.

You want to forego increments?
Well we're all doing that at present to fight for a better deal for new teachers as increments are frozen for all ASTI.

Seriously your complete ignorance of the profession makes me suspect you're not a teacher.

stanley1980

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ah come on? Miss 10% of what? A final school report? Not the SEC part. Dont believe the propaganda from Bruton. Next he will be surrounding himself with weeping students as he walks around the place. As for Foregoing increments -you might be in such a position but dont assume everybody else can.
As for finite amount of money-these guys cant predict anything. in 2015-growth was predicted at 2.5% . It was actually almost twice that. We can throw money into water meters with a bogus argument they improve conservation. Didnt you smell the privatization coming down the tracks? Did you buy eircom shares?
We can tell Apple-keep your 13 billion? We can keep corporation tax at the lowest in EU-because Paddy wont mind?
Think for yourself a bit (seriously)

I do think for myself. You're the one repeating populist rhetoric.

YMCA

I read on media releases this evening that approximately 10 voluntary schools (JMB led) are opening in the morning. Does anyone have any idea what schools these are and how they are managing to pull this off?

Eintrachtrob

Stanley wants to forego increments.

Bear this in mind - the state pays approx 1500 million in interest alone per year to pay for the portion of the money it had to borrow to bail out the banks.

AIB are now state owned.

Are their employees doing useless CP hours?
Are their new employees on separate wage scales?

Don't think so but hey, Stanley loves ya!!!!!

MrJones1973

stanley1980 wrote: »

I do think for myself. You're the one repeating populist rhetoric.

Where exactly ? I can back everything I said with facts. They are facts .

political analyst

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Im a bit sick of hearing about students missing out when TULSA are a joke in terms of getting school shy students into the building and schools dont have the MGT to pursue chronic absenteeism. Of course the way Dept view it-its entirely your fault as a teacher-dont you know!

The authorities are not blaming teachers for pupils' truancy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parents-of-girl-who-missed-381-days-of-school-facing-jail-30885232.html

THE parents of a young girl who missed 381 days of school since 2012 have been given a chance to avoid jail.

The 14-year-old has gone to school on just 26 dates since September 2012 and should be preparing to sit the Junior Certificate exams this year. However, she missed so many days she is now "anti-school", Dublin District Court heard.

The court also heard the girl's mother once claimed to a school attendance official that her truant daughter had moved to the UK and was living with a relative there.
Education and welfare officer Jennifer Redmond told Judge John O'Neill that the woman said her daughter, "is a Traveller girl and she would not be attending any school in England or at home".

stanley1980

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Where exactly ? I can back everything I said with facts. They are facts .

You mean facts like this?
We can throw money into water meters with a bogus argument they improve conservation. Didnt you smell the privatization coming down the tracks? Did you buy eircom shares?

Compelling stuff.

TheDriver

YMCA wrote: »

I read on media releases this evening that approximately 10 voluntary schools (JMB led) are opening in the morning. Does anyone have any idea what schools these are and how they are managing to pull this off?

Many reasons how they can open: They could have a tiny number of students who all leave at break and lunch to a local shop. Or parents have said they'll happy pick up their kids for break and lunch. Or a newly opened school which has nearly all non union members. lots of scenarios where this could occur

MrJones1973

political analyst wrote: »

The authorities are not blaming teachers for pupils' truancy.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/parents-of-girl-who-missed-381-days-of-school-facing-jail-30885232.html

Sorry I should be more specific. The thrust in education policy has been to have more accountability and ignore underlying inequalities in society. Managerlism basically.
We needed accountability but without a real stick to prod school shy and a more equal society its pissing in the wind

MrJones1973

stanley1980 wrote: »

You mean facts like this?
We can throw money into water meters with a bogus argument they improve conservation. Didnt you smell the privatization coming down the tracks? Did you buy eircom shares?

Compelling stuff.

So just one point ? Can you show me one EU nation where the introduction of Meters lead to conservation?-They didn't in the UK. I will return with specifics but I take you accept all the other facts ? Go back to reading the corporate media

stanley1980

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

They're not losing 10% of their grade, they're getting marked out of 100 on the rest.

Holidays are incredible? It's number of class contact hours that matter and teachers in Ireland work the highest class contact time with students among OECD countries. Teaching is recognised as a stressful and difficult job, so there's a logical reason for the holidays. Otherwise you'd have burnout by 30 for most teachers.

Furthermore the ASTI are not closing down any school tomorrow morning. The person primarily resposnsible for this is the Minister, so take it up with him. He agreed to pay teachers for S&S from 01 Sept without precondition in the Haddington Road Agreement, backed up by department circular 0006/2014.

You want to forego increments?
Well we're all doing that at present to fight for a better deal for new teachers as increments are frozen for all ASTI.

Seriously your complete ignorance of the profession makes me suspect you're not a teacher.

I've some news for you- all jobs are stressful and difficult. If teaching in Ireland was really so hard how come your average teacher is someone with an arts degree and a one year diploma (an extremely poor qualification at that in my view). Plenty of them can manage to throw in a few grinds (tax-free) on top of that too! How do other professions get by I wonder? I would genuinely love to see how teachers like you would fare in the UK etc- I suspect you'd have a very different view on things.

spurious

Let's try stay on topic folks.

Stanley80, please read the charter and abide by it.

Villain

spurious wrote: »

Let's try stay on topic folks.

Stanley80, please read the charter and abide by it.

Stanley gets a yellow but none of the posts I reported?

Are pro ASTI and pro teacher posts the only opinions allowed in this thread?

Please contact a mod via PM if you wish to discuss any aspect of a moderating decision, as stated in forum charter

spurious

Please read the charter.
If you have an issue with moderating, take it up with the moderator.
Be advised mods have other things going on in their lives and do not sit waiting to respond to reported posts within minutes.

Eintrachtrob

stanley1980 wrote: »

I've some news for you- all jobs are stressful and difficult. If teaching in Ireland was really so hard how come your average teacher is someone with an arts degree and a one year diploma (an extremely poor qualification at that in my view). Plenty of them can manage to throw in a few grinds (tax-free) on top of that too! How do other professions get by I wonder? I would genuinely love to see how teachers like you would fare in the UK etc- I suspect you'd have a very different view on things.

So you ignored the points I raised, the points you were completely discredited on, to focus on the holidays and then going on to insult or make insinuations about the qualifications of teachers.

All teachers qualifying now are educated to Masters level, and it is they the strikes on Tuesday are for.

I work in a school of about 70 teachers. I know of 2 who do grinds.....Sad reality is that the vast majority of teachers don't do grinds because the demands of the job carry on and they simply cannot give the time to do them.

Fare in the UK?
I'm not in the UK, I'm in Ireland.

I'd like to see how you'd fare in, let me pick a random country - Turkmenistan, in whatever job you do because it ain't teaching.

Nice try though. . . The "I'll go on & claim I'm a teacher in order to discredit them" line.

Pity you're not very good at it though.

stanley1980

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

So you ignored the points I raised, the points you were completely discredited on, to focus on the holidays and then going on to insult or make insinuations about the qualifications of teachers.

All teachers qualifying now are educated to Masters level, and it is they the strikes on Tuesday are for.

I work in a school of about 70 teachers. I know of 2 who do grinds.....Sad reality is that the vast majority of teachers don't do grinds because the demands of the job carry on and they simply cannot give the time to do them.

Fare in the UK?
I'm not in the UK, I'm in Ireland.

I'd like to see how you'd fare in, let me pick a random country - Turkmenistan, in whatever job you do because it ain't teaching.

Nice try though. . . The "I'll go on & claim I'm a teacher in order to discredit them" line.

Pity you're not very good at it though.

You don't think I'm a teacher? That's fine! I suppose anyone with a differing view than you isn't a teacher either? Comments like this exemplify how out of touch ASTI are. Probably why teachers are joining TUI in large numbers.
Then again, it shouldn't be surprising that ASTI/teaching unions try to shout down any dissenting voices....who can forget the image of those clowns at your national conference heckling ministers of education (who they invited!) with megaphones. Cringe-worthy stuff.

Eintrachtrob

stanley1980 wrote: »

You don't think I'm a teacher? That's fine! I suppose anyone with a differing view than you isn't a teacher either? Comments like this exemplify how out of touch ASTI are. Probably why teachers are joining TUI in large numbers.
Then again, it shouldn't be surprising that ASTI/teaching unions try to shout down any dissenting voices....who can forget the image of those clowns at your national conference heckling ministers of education (who they invited!) with megaphones. Cringe-worthy stuff.

I know you're not a teacher. 100% I'm right.

Again - zero evidence to back up your claim. You know why - because the TUI are not allowed to accept ASTI members in times of industrial action (& vice versa).

I'm suspecting this is yet another thing you don't know in your vast experience as a teacher?

I'll give you some anecdotal evidence from my own staff room - 6 teachers joined the ASTI just before last Thursday week. None left.

Again it's not called a "national conference" - It's called a convention.

Any more bile you'd like to spout?

TheDriver

Right guys and gals, time to retreat please before this gets personal. Anymore of this off topic stuff and thread will be closed for the night

Jamfa

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ah come on? Miss 10% of what? A final school report? Not the SEC part. Dont believe the propaganda from Bruton. Next he will be surrounding himself with weeping students as he walks around the place. As for Foregoing increments -you might be in such a position but dont assume everybody else can.
As for finite amount of money-these guys cant predict anything. in 2015-growth was predicted at 2.5% . It was actually almost twice that. We can throw money into water meters with a bogus argument they improve conservation. Didnt you smell the privatization coming down the tracks? Did you buy eircom shares?
We can tell Apple-keep your 13 billion? We can keep corporation tax at the lowest in EU-because Paddy wont mind?
Think for yourself a bit (seriously)

They are set to lose 10% of the SEC assessed junior cycle English by not completing the Assessment Task.

stanley1980

Eintrachtrob wrote: »

I know you're not a teacher. 100% I'm right.

Again - zero evidence to back up your claim. You know why - because the TUI are not allowed to accept ASTI members in times of industrial action (& vice versa).

I'm suspecting this is yet another thing you don't know in your vast experience as a teacher?

I'll give you some anecdotal evidence from my own staff room - 6 teachers joined the ASTI just before last Thursday week. None left.

Again it's not called a "national conference" - It's called a convention.

Any more bile you'd like to spout?

PM me and I'll give you my teaching council number, my school's role number, school website with my name/picture on it, my timetable, photos of me in school (year books, with sports teams, pay slip delivered through my door every second Thursday- whatever you like, absolutely no problem). Go on I dare you- we can sort this out very quickly.

National conference/national convention!

I was referring to non-union teachers who've been joining and re-joining in large numbers. I stated this clearly in an earlier post- keep up Sherlock.

worseforwear

stanley1980 wrote: »

You don't think I'm a teacher? That's fine! I suppose anyone with a differing view than you isn't a teacher either? Comments like this exemplify how out of touch ASTI are. Probably why teachers are joining TUI in large numbers.
Then again, it shouldn't be surprising that ASTI/teaching unions try to shout down any dissenting voices....who can forget the image of those clowns at your national conference heckling ministers of education (who they invited!) with megaphones. Cringe-worthy stuff.

I agree that the Asti are completely out of touch with reality and in my opinion they have zero credibility in regards to progressing education standards. I have seen them defend the most indefensible situations in schools regarding teacher underperformance.
Take for example that only recently have posts been allocated on merit rather than based on seniority.
They are currently blocking the new junior cycle.
They resist proper school inspection, and collaborative teaching.
Their main objective seems to be to prevent exposure of or addressing poor teaching practices.

Eintrachtrob

stanley1980 wrote: »

PM me and I'll give you my teaching council number, my school's role number, school website with my name/picture on it, my timetable, photos of me in school (year books, with sports teams, pay slip delivered through my door every second Thursday- whatever you like, absolutely no problem). Go on I dare you- we can sort this out very quickly.

No - publish your information on here. Go on, I dare you.

This is where you're making your posts.

You want me to protect your anonymity as you slag off your colleagues - like a coward.

Go & take a run & jump. . .

YOU WILL DO NOTHING OF THE SORT; PUBLISHING IDENTIFYING INFORMATION IS AGAINST THE CHARTER AND ALSO AGAINST COMMON SENSE ON THE INTERNET FORUMS. Calm down please, we're not interested in a "behind the sheds at break fight". Any more of this and I'm closing the padlock
Mod

happywithlife

stanley1980 wrote: »

I've some news for you- all jobs are stressful and difficult. If teaching in Ireland was really so hard how come your average teacher is someone with an arts degree and a one year diploma (an extremely poor qualification at that in my view). Plenty of them can manage to throw in a few grinds (tax-free) on top of that too! How do other professions get by I wonder? I would genuinely love to see how teachers like you would fare in the UK etc- I suspect you'd have a very different view on things.

Have been reading a lot but not commenting but this post got my hackles up! The obesity year diploma is now a 2 year masters for starters. As a concurrent qualified teacher I object to disparaging remarks that suggest all teacher training is substandard.
I told know of very few teachers who give grinds- those that do fall into one of two categories in my experience- either they're young and supplementing their low wage with grinds or they're older and have done grinds so have resources down to a T and their input is minimal atcthe stage. And to pick up on your tax free comment- that really makes me query your legitimacy as a teacher. Extra tuition is certainty not tax free and the dog on the street knows revenue came down hard and heavy on the grinds business a number of years ago. Your posts appear ill informed and inflammatory to say the least