ASTI OctNov Action *Post 1 for usual plea for restraint Especially New Posters *

tayto lover

kerryguy78 wrote: »

You are right ye didn't but when yer employer is broke ye have to suffer, yer colleagues are getting 20% less because ye were getting over hyped salaries for less than 8 months work!!!!

How do you explain the TD's getting their wage restored by 5K then?
I'll wait for your answer.

km79

Checks posting history .........After Hours regular......adds to ignore list

kerryguy78

Benicetomonty wrote: »

THEY broke an agreement (Haddington Rd), not us. How can you expect any intelligent union to sign up to an agreement when the other party have shown themselves to be unwilling to honour a prior agreement?! Ridiculous.

Anyway shouldn't public service workers salaries be a reflection of performance because some public servants aren't worth minimum wage

kerryguy78

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you explain the TD's getting their wage restored by 5K then?
I'll wait for your answer.

Totally and utterly disgraceful I totally agree with you.

Benicetomonty

kerryguy78 wrote: »

Anyway shouldn't public service workers salaries be a reflection of performance because some public servants aren't worth minimum wage

Different argument for another day. If you dont accept that the vast vast majority of teachers (as in any profession) are competent, work hard and are deserving of a fair wage, esp with a job that I believe to be of significance, then I think youre being incredibly unfair.

acequion

Folks, don't waste your energies engaging with this individual. This is precisely the sort of misinformed ignorant bull shyte which will be hurled at us from anyone who just wants to have a go,the typical "I hate teachers,just because" brigade. We don't have to justify our actions to them.

So let's keep the heads down and get on with what we have the do. The ignore button is very handy here,it won't always be so easy.

oppenheimer1

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I must have missed the part when our teachers ran the country off the economic cliff....
Oh wait, we didn't.

We were asked to tighten our belts and take the pain "for the national good", and we did.

We cannot stand idly by as our colleagues are subjected to 20% les pay for doing the same work.

I'm afraid you did a couple of years ago. Instead of allowing cuts across the board, you threw the newly qualified teachers under the bus to protect yourselves.

Solidarity, me arse.

kerryguy78

The majority of all workers are good workers but there is always workers who are useless. I was watching a representative for the bus drivers saying our workers deserve a pay rise. Ludicrous statement you only deserve a pay rise if you earn it. The public sector will always have that tarnished image of being non productive and not cost effective because people know they are in there for life with no chance of being sacked unlike the private sector where we are watched and given pay adjustments accordingly. If your a hard worker you get rewarded and if your dragging your feet you can get the door!

kerryguy78

Look I'm not a public servant basher some teachers are brilliant and do a great job

kerryguy78

The ignore button is handy bye bye acequin!!!

Benicetomonty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm afraid you did a couple of years ago. Instead of allowing cuts across the board, you threw the newly qualified teachers under the bus to protect yourselves.

Solidarity, me arse.

http://www.todayfm.com/player/listen_back/7/32729/13th_October_2016_-_The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper_Part_1

No we didnt. Please, please listen to this interview from 1.30mins in. ASTI were bound by the Croke Park agreement not to strike so could not take action against govt decision to hammer NQTs.

oppenheimer1

Benicetomonty wrote: »

http://www.todayfm.com/player/listen_back/7/32729/13th_October_2016_-_The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper_Part_1

No we didnt. Please, please listen to this interview from 1.30mins in. ASTI were bound by the Croke Park agreement not to strike so could not take action against govt decision to hammer NQTs.

Didn't ASTI vote to accept the Croke Park Agreement?

The public sector unions (ASTI, to be fair are not alone in this) threw young graduates to the wolves to protect their own conditions as best they could. The guff from the unions now is total hypocrisy.

kerryguy78

Even if teachers are on a basic wage it works out at €937 p/w for the 8 months they work

History Queen

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Didn't ASTI vote to accept the Croke Park Agreement?

The public sector unions (ASTI, to be fair are not alone in this) threw young graduates to the wolves to protect their own conditions as best they could. The guff from the unions now is total hypocrisy.

To be fair to the teaching unions when they voted for Croke park there had been no indication that the government were going to go after NQT pay. (I'm open to correction on this, but that is my understanding )

Blaming them for a decision they didn't make (and were bound by Croke Park not to challenge) isn't fair. I am a lesser paid teacher (post 2012) and don't blame the unions for what happened. I am delighted to see one of the unions taking action for us. I'm just sorry it is not my own union.

amacca

Benicetomonty wrote: »

http://www.todayfm.com/player/listen_back/7/32729/13th_October_2016_-_The_Last_Word_with_Matt_Cooper_Part_1

No we didnt. Please, please listen to this interview from 1.30mins in. ASTI were bound by the Croke Park agreement not to strike so could not take action against govt decision to hammer NQTs.

Not to be too teachery but

Your post, N.B. v.important

and also another reason not to sign up blindly to another "agreement" where the Govt party do not keep their part of the "agreement" and make keeping their promises contingent on signing up to a new "agreement"

an "agreement" in which teachers hands will again be bound and they have no way of knowing if the govt will keep their promises this time around in return or take it as a sign of their stupidity they agreed to be bullied into who knows what in the name of "reform"

A move in which no doubt any negative consequences for the education system would be blamed on the teachers and not a Govt only too glad to play the populist card (with the back up of an often inaccurate and biased media) and cut it to the bone in the name of reform and then probably turn around in ten years time and blame falling standards on the teachers and wonder why they are having a recruitment problem etc etc

amacca

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Didn't ASTI vote to accept the Croke Park Agreement?

The public sector unions (ASTI, to be fair are not alone in this) threw young graduates to the wolves to protect their own conditions as best they could. The guff from the unions now is total hypocrisy.

You are stretching it a bit there.......

Benicetomonty

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Didn't ASTI vote to accept the Croke Park Agreement?

The public sector unions (ASTI, to be fair are not alone in this) threw young graduates to the wolves to protect their own conditions as best they could. The guff from the unions now is total hypocrisy.

You didnt listen to the interview, did you?

oppenheimer1

amacca wrote: »

You are stretching it a bit there.......

Not one bit. The unions only care now because these NQT's are paying subs and making noise. They didn't give a fiddlers about them before they were members - despite the fact that they are the future of the profession and union.

I worked in the PS as a low paid graduate, and the attitude of the existing staff was "if they're willing to work for it, its what they deserve" or "We have mortgages to pay, all this means is that these graduates will get one less week off on their sun holiday". Solidarity, was all thrown out the window as everyone battened down to protect their own arse.

kerryguy78

I'm glad I'm in the private sector where I got 3 pay rises last year.

oppenheimer1

Benicetomonty wrote: »

You didnt listen to the interview, did you?

It's hard to believe that the wool was pulled over the eyes of the finest minds of the ASTI when they signed up for Croke Park. But OK say you buy that excuse that they were tricked :rolleyes: How come they still signed up to Haddington Road without making sure there was pay parity for NQT and existing staff?

I'll tell you why, the unions knew there wasn't enough money available to allow NQT's to rise to existing teacher levels of pay. If they wanted parity they would have had to allow a reduction to existing teacher pay. The government at the time didn't care how the pay restraint was organised, they just needed the total bill to be a certain amount.

If ASTI had stood up (at Haddington road)and said they were willing to offer a small cut to existing teacher wages in order to bring up NQT salaries to the same level, then I would have considered it genuine solidarity. All the teachers see now is that the things aren't as tight as they used to be and now want some gravy. Plus ça change.

coillsaille

kerryguy78 wrote: »

I'm glad I'm in the private sector where I got 3 pay rises last year.

To think I just wasted my time reading your posts with an open mind assuming there might be some valid points from a somewhat intelligent being that might be worth arguing with.
Only to come to this churlish and childish post. You are beyond words and I won't waste any more time with you, neither should anyone else here as has been rightly said above.

MrJones1973

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's hard to believe that the wool was pulled over the eyes of the finest minds of the ASTI when they signed up for Croke Park. But OK say you buy that excuse that they were tricked :rolleyes: How come they still signed up to Haddington Road without making sure there was pay parity for NQT and existing staff?

I'll tell you why, the unions knew there wasn't enough money available to allow NQT's to rise to existing teacher levels of pay. If they wanted parity they would have had to allow a reduction to existing teacher pay. The government at the time didn't care how the pay restraint was organised, they just needed the total bill to be a certain amount.

If ASTI had stood up (at Haddington road)and said they were willing to offer a small cut to existing teacher wages in order to bring up NQT salaries to the same level, then I would have considered it genuine solidarity. All the teachers see now is that the things aren't as tight as they used to be and now want some gravy. Plus ça change.

A bit simplistic ? We could afford to pay bank debts ?! We could afford to let Apple pay no tax ? We could afford to have a Hse manager on 100k who just organizes retirement dues ? An army to protect us from what exactly . I wanted all out strike back then. Not everyone voted for HR

kerryguy78

Sorry but I got them pay rises coz I earned it and my employer is raking money in. If your employer had loads of money ye would get a fair cut too! But come to the private sector see how Rosie it is when the alarm is going off at 4.45am and doing 60 hrs a week!!!!

oppenheimer1

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

A bit simplistic ? We could afford to pay bank debts ?! We could afford to let Apple pay no tax ? We could afford to have a Hse manager on 100k who just organizes retirement dues ? An army to protect us from what exactly . I wanted all out strike back then. Not everyone voted for HR

Enough teachers in ASTI voted for Haddington road for it to be accepted. Enough teachers wanted to protect their pay and conditions at the expense of their newly qualified colleagues.

History Queen

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's hard to believe that the wool was pulled over the eyes of the finest minds of the ASTI when they signed up for Croke Park. But OK say you buy that excuse that they were tricked :rolleyes: How come they still signed up to Haddington Road without making sure there was pay parity for NQT and existing staff?

I'll tell you why, the unions knew there wasn't enough money available to allow NQT's to rise to existing teacher levels of pay. If they wanted parity they would have had to allow a reduction to existing teacher pay. The government at the time didn't care how the pay restraint was organised, they just needed the total bill to be a certain amount.

If ASTI had stood up (at Haddington road)and said they were willing to offer a small cut to existing teacher wages in order to bring up NQT salaries to the same level, then I would have considered it genuine solidarity. All the teachers see now is that the things aren't as tight as they used to be and now want some gravy. Plus ça change.

Again... I'm open to correction but there was a provision in Haddington road to improve the wages of lesser paid teachers (very little but there was a provision) also the threat of Fempi was being held over teachers. If you're going to argue at least play fair.

MrJones1973

I have heard from asti sc member that principals will be instructed not to manage government contingency plans for s and s. They must either adhere to that or be expelled

acequion

Folks,please,please,please stop engaging with these individuals. It's Friday night and they obviously have f. all else to do but stir up trouble on the forums of striking workers.

They're trotting out the very sensationalistic rubbish that's been doing the rounds by the nonsense rumour mill crowd,rubbish that does not dignify being read,let alone being responded to.

They will happily drag our discussions way off topic if ye continue to entertain them.

MrJones1973

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Enough teachers in ASTI voted for Haddington road for it to be accepted. Enough teachers wanted to protect their pay and conditions at the expense of their newly qualified colleagues.

You have some justification for that view. What way did you vote ?

oppenheimer1

History Queen wrote: »

Again... I'm open to correction but there was a provision in Haddington road to improve the wages of lesser paid teachers (very little but there was a provision) also the threat of Fempi was neing held over teachers. If you're going to argue at least play fair.

Since when was the ASTI so weak it couldn't stand up to the government? It could have gone on all out in 2013 if it cared so much for NQT. The reality was that NQT made up a tiny minority of ASTI membership at the time and there was no political necessity within the union to win anything major for them (or offer them anything really), so they threw them a bone in HR to keep them quiet. Now they are more numerous and vocal and now its a problem for ASTI.

If the union is all for solidarity,how come the union didn't offer for existing staff to take a small cut at HR to allow the government to restore a single scale? How come they didn't ignore the threat of FEMPI and go out to protect their young colleagues?

coillsaille

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It's hard to believe that the wool was pulled over the eyes of the finest minds of the ASTI when they signed up for Croke Park. But OK say you buy that excuse that they were tricked :rolleyes: How come they still signed up to Haddington Road without making sure there was pay parity for NQT and existing staff?

The cuts came in during the lifetime of the Croke Park Agreement when the ASTI couldn't take action. The union rejected the following agreement CPA2 which then merged into HRA. The union balloted HRA in December 2013 with a recommendation to vote No but the agreement was accepted.