Gave notice - told to leave

ifeelstupid

Apologies for starting a second thread on this but I had a rubbish title on earlier one - really hoping someone here might have some advice

Hi
Posting for a friend who is not a Boardsie.
Apologies in advance for the long post.
My friend has been working in the same place (hospitality industry) on and off for 9 years (went p/t for college and took a year out for travel).
Was getting on well, clean work record, no warnings etc. Boss has always been a bit of a bully but my friend is very laid back and secure in their abilities so was able to let this over their head.
Friend has never been given a contract or pension options. No structured finish time/overtime – leave when the work is done.
There was an incident last week that left my friend with no option but to give notice. Because they have no contract and are paid weekly notice period is one week. Boss was to take annual leave so friend gave notice at the weekend with intention to leave at the end of the month so they would stay to cover leave. Very reasonable in the circumstances I thought. Boss obviously thought otherwise!!
Boss arrives at 5pm yesterday and tells my friend to finish whatever they were at, leave now and they will post their P45 to them.
Initially they were prepared to let this go but after sleeping on it my friend is angry at this treatment today. Basically they have asked my advice on what to do. Obviously I’m on my friends side and only advice I have is to put any further communication in writing. I’m guessing notice should work both ways but I have no idea
1, what their entitlement to notice/pay in lieu is and
2. if they should pursue this and
3. how to word it?
Hoping my fellow (and much more knowledgeable) Boardsies can help
Thanks

Atlantic Dawn

What was the incident last week? If say they robbed the takings from the till, assaualted a member of staff etc they might be as well to just let it go.

Dee01

Iwhere the employee is during their statutory notice period (one week as per her pay arrangement) is the employers choice as far as I know. As long as they pay a statutory notice period, they have the choice to have your friend working there or not. There could be a variety of reasons for this i.e. Competition, confidentiality, conflict etc,. If it was gross misconduct (like mentioned above) all bets are off if instant dismissal applies.

ifeelstupid

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What was the incident last week? If say they robbed the takings from the till, assaualted a member of staff etc they might be as well to just let it go.

Incident involved verbal abuse by the boss of a younger sibling of the staff member. After trying to resolve this without any joy, my friends position became very difficult and in reality they could not continue to work there so gave in their notice.
At this stage they are inclined to let it lie. They are still angry at treatment though and feel like they should do something as this person continually "gets away" with regular verbal abuse of employees. Going to wait until the end of the week and see if they are paid for the (non) notice period of a week

Thanks

_Brian

So your friend got stuck into something at work that was essentially none of their business, was likely told that, got into a strop and resigned.

Providing they are paid their notice period then they can be asked to leave.

Stealthfins

I get a bit of sht and pass remarkable comments from supervisor/ bully where I work.

I am waiting for them to loose it with me again then I'll take action,my solicitor is updated frequently with it.

Last year they got very personal and threatening in front of two witnesses and it's all recorded.

They think they can get away with anything,that time I knew bully was going for a promotion so I said I would let it go and got on with it.

Same person has being arrested once or twice,being involved in a few violent altercations where the guards were involved and I'm told they verbally abused a bean garda and was cuffed.

So I just biding my time,if nothing happens I won't do anything about it.

But I am always wary.

They love power these creeps

StringerBell

It will come back to the company handbook and the procedure/policy laid out in that. I assume you/your friend have a handbook, you must be issued one. The terms of contract must also be given even if an actual contract is not by the way.

Citizens information is very good in these cases, and all the information is available online also

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/

Tell him/her to use that link and go through everything relevant to the case. Have as much written record as possible, from now on do their best to communicate solely in writing, e-mail preferably with the former employer.

Generally for someone working there that long the notice period would have been longer and the employer can of course terminate the notice period early but barring any other circumstance must pay the notice period, any holiday pay that is owed also.

If it is necessary to bring the case further then you make a complaint through www.workplacerelations.ie

ifeelstupid

Thanks everyone for your advice.

@ _Brian - it was not a case of getting stuck into something that was not their business. If you saw/heard your younger (15 year old) sibling getting dogs abuse would you just stand back and say let them on with it??

@ StringerBell - great advice, thanks. I have already suggested Citizens Advice and they have an appointment there today and will be guided by that. No handbook, no contract, no offer to join pension scheme etc. This employer does not seem to do a lot by the book. Having said that, my friend is not looking to cause trouble for the employer - they are grateful for the experience gained and the opportunities they have had for college, travel etc.

@ stealthfins - your situation sounds horrible, you seem to be handling it well.

Thanks again.

Musketeer4

What I'd do is give this bully of a boss just enough rope to hang themselves.
Let them sack your friend with less than statutory notice. They should voice their displeasure but relent.

Then go to an employment law solicitor and take the fúcker to the cleaners. Might be the best days work they've ever done in that hotel.

Stealthfins

ifeelstupid wrote:

@ stealthfins - your situation sounds horrible, you seem to be handling it well.

I am able to detach and let go,but log everything I think is demeaning or a bit personal.
I can take banter and a slagging but there's a difference between that and bullying.

Supervisors and managers are not supposed to take the piss on or get personal with staff,that's where this guy will trip up lol

I have the ability to let go but if he tries it on again I'll log a complaint.

His past brushes with the law won't look too clean if it comes out where he works.....

Musketeer4

What you should do there Stealthfins is try to discreetly engineer a situation that will provoke him into kicking off at you. As I said, let him hang himself with his antics and then you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

pilly

The management have the right to ask people to leave the building before their notice period is up but they must pay the employee the statutory notice period.

If your friend has worked there nine years I'd imagine they are due more than a weeks notice.

Stealthfins

Musketeer4 wrote:

What you should do there Stealthfins is try to discreetly engineer a situation that will provoke him into kicking off at you. As I said, let him hang himself with his antics and then you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

Lol it'll happen again I'm sure of it,third time if it happens again.

I'm quite by nature and handled it before without me losing it,they really let themselves down.

I have the conversation etc on my phone,for some odd reason I must have recorded it by mistake.

So if it comes to it I'll be able to remember word for word and insult for insult if we're brought for mediation

dreamers75

@ifeelstupid i think the best question here is what does your mate want? and people here will let them know if they can get it, is it constructive dismissal he/she is after? they are entitled to whatever holidays they are owed after handing in notice. constructive dismissal could be plausible and it depends on the situation. From my experience "hospitality" industry has little to 0 policies on anything.

@stealthfins you have a solicitor on stand by?

ifeelstupid

dreamers75 wrote: »

@ifeelstupid i think the best question here is what does your mate want? and people here will let them know if they can get it, is it constructive dismissal he/she is after? they are entitled to whatever holidays they are owed after handing in notice. constructive dismissal could be plausible and it depends on the situation. From my experience "hospitality" industry has little to 0 policies on anything.

Thanks Dreamers75. No, they are not after anything so drastic as constructive dismissal really, just want to be paid whatever they are entitled to. Obviously, when they handed in notice they thought they were in a position that they had a couple of weeks to start looking for another job while still having a few €€€'s coming in. To be told to leave immediately after 9 years was a bit of a smack to be honest.
Anyway, they have lined up a few interviews and hopefully will be moving on to greener pastures soon!!

Senna

9 years total employment, but how long is their current employment period, if it's less than a year, then there is not notice period.

Also, the 15 yr old sibling is now in employment and will have to look after themselves, having their big brother or sister step in for them is not going to help anyone.

ifeelstupid

Senna wrote: »

Also, the 15 yr old sibling is now in employment and will have to look after themselves, having their big brother or sister step in for them is not going to help anyone.

Thanks but not very constructive.
As far as I am concerned a 15 year old in their first part time job (4 hours a week) is still only quite young. I was working pretty much full time at that age as well as going to school but it was different times. There is so much going on for teenagers now that they can do without being bullied/verbally abused by someone in a position of authority. Constructive criticism and training are very different and I would happily let them fend for themselves in that case.
Personally, I'd hate to be 15 again!!

Senna

ifeelstupid wrote: »

Thanks but not very constructive.
As far as I am concerned a 15 year old in their first part time job (4 hours a week) is still only quite young. I was working pretty much full time at that age as well as going to school but it was different times. There is so much going on for teenagers now that they can do without being bullied/verbally abused by someone in a position of authority. Constructive criticism and training are very different and I would happily let them fend for themselves in that case.
Personally, I'd hate to be 15 again!!

I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment behind your post but that's irrelevant to you.
They part of my post that could be relevant, you choose to ignore.

ifeelstupid

Senna wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment behind your post but that's irrelevant to you.
They part of my post that could be relevant, you choose to ignore.

I didn't chose to ignore anything, other part of your post is irrelevant to the situation. Current employment period is 3 years.

Thanks for your feedback.

In any case all seems to be working out for the best. Younger sibling is putting her career plans on hold to concentrate on school. Older sibling had several interviews this week and 2 job offers. They are not looking to make an issue out of things with old employer - both grateful for lessons learned!!

ligerdub

A 15 year old sibling is a 15 year old sibling. Anyone worth their salt would step in and defend them if there was bit of ****housing going on (not just standard workplace fare/criticisms I mean, personal insults are too far).

Blood is thicker than water and all that. Some things are more important than so called professionalism and workplace norms.

I mean that's just not up for debate as far as I'm concerned.

I doubt there is any onus on the employer to give anything substantial in terms of notice though considering there was no contract and the person resigned. Even just in terms of actually working the notice that's pretty much at the employers discretion. Frankly I don't see that as a big deal either way.

razorblunt

The incident with the sibling would depend on whether it was professional criticism or not, if they verged into the personal end of things then I would quite rightly step in, just like I've done a few times for colleagues that weren't relatives.

OP as long as your friend gets the right pay I wouldn't worry too much, in my industry we have "gardening leave" where your employer will send you home with full pay until your notice ends. In some cases I've seen people hoping for it. I myself was given 2 week leave before a big project kicked off when I was leaving.

We had a laugh and a joke and a "enjoy the free holiday" as I was leaving.

LegacyUser

Where they paid for the weeks notice?

ifeelstupid

JohhnieBigSocks wrote: »

Where they paid for the weeks notice?

Yes, all paid up to date.

All worked out. New job started and we have all moved on:)