Motorcycle refuelling

Hotblack Desiato

People get complacent about the dangers of petrol because they use it everyday, and usually nothing bad happens.

Humans are notoriously bad at making rational risk assessments. We get the bad end of this "oooh, those motorbikes are sooo dangerous, you'd want to have a death wish to ride one of those" but just because other people overestimate (largely) imagined risks doesn't mean we should ignore actual risks.

When pumping petrol you are transferring energy at the rate of output of a small power station, you wouldn't be let within 10 metres of a cable doing that, but some of you want to sit on top???

macplaxton

Having looked up an opinion of it over the water:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting/2014/case319-motorcyclist-told-remove-helmet-and-get-off-motorcycle-whilst-refuelling.htm

which refers to the PELG red guide:

SAFE DISPENSING OF PETROL
17) Particular attention needs to be paid to the following points to ensure that
petrol is dispensed safely:
a. petrol should only be dispensed into the fuel tank of a vehicle, motorbike or
motorboat, a suitable container or demountable petrol tank;
b. no-one should smoke or use smoking materials in the hazardous area
around the dispenser;
c. the engine of the vehicle to be filled should be switched off before
dispensing begins. Dispensing equipment should be operated in
accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions (e.g. equipment designed
to be operated by an attendant should only be operated by an attendant).
Delivery hoses should not be kinked or stretched. After dispensing,
nozzles should be firmly stowed in their housings to switch-off metering
pumps and dispensers or, in the case of centralised pump systems, to
isolated hoses from sources of pressure. If appropriate, hoses should be
draped to avoid damage by moving vehicles;
d. motor cyclists and their passengers should dismount from their machines;
e. portable and CB radios, mobile telephones and other electrical equipment
should not be used in hazardous areas;
f. the dispensing area should be kept clear of obstructions to allow easy
access and exit; and
g. petrol should not be dispensed by persons under 16 years of age. This
restriction should not preclude young persons (e.g. teenagers) from
operating dispensers to refuel motor vehicles provided this activity is
carried out under the supervision of an adult.

http://www.magireland.org/2013/news-media/clarification-on-forecourt-rules/

prunudo

I hate the way h&s is getting stricter and stricter as the years pass. Our lives are becoming more restricted and sense of adventure and discovery being hindered by insurance and bureaucracy. Constantly being told you can't do this or can't do the other.

AgileMyth

Garda bike went on fire while filling in Sligo a few years back, it is something that can happen. I still sit on mine when filling though.

I lived in Spain for a couple of years and I'd say around 90% of stations would ask you to step off first, it'd be well signposted and usually there's someone outside to ask you as well. No bother hopping off if thats the case.

gctest50

jvan wrote: »

I hate the way h&s is getting stricter and stricter as the years pass. Our lives are becoming more restricted and sense of adventure and discovery being hindered by insurance and bureaucracy. Constantly being told you can't do this or can't do the other.

jvan wrote: »

...sense of adventure and discovery ...

jvan wrote: »

...sense of adventure and discovery ...

It's a petrol station yer in, refuelling your bike, not climbing K2 with no oxygen

prunudo

gctest50 wrote: »

It's a petrol station yer in, refuelling your bike, not climbing K2 with no oxygen

Every day is an adventure
But you look at everything that we got up as kids and what kids do now. They're not allowed do anything without somebody telling them to stop. It's the same in every walk of life, everybody having to conform to a certain way because some suit tells you cant do such and such thing. That's going to have an effect on future generations, from being inquisitive to creativity it's all being restricted.

Arthur.beaker

GBX wrote: »

To be fair some garages have had drive offs - which is understandable but to treat every biker like a potential thief is wrong.

It is a reasonable precaution, hardly treating everyone like a potential thief. Does a landlord requesting a deposit mean the landlord expects every tenant to do a runner or wreck the place?

gerrowadat

I don't need to discover for myself that petrol goes on fire if you get it hot by splashing it on a hot engine. I've to get off the bike anyway so might as well be better equipped to cheese it if the unforeseen happens.

Paulw

I really don't see the big issue here.

People don't seem to have an issue with not using mobile phones when fueling up, and yet it's very hard to find any evidence that a fire can be started by a phone. There are plenty of videos of fuel going on fire from static shock or hot engines though.

Then again, I get more fuel in my tank having the bike on the side stand and can't fill it while sitting on it anyway. The joy of an 800GS.

Rory28

I find standing a few paces back from the bike and shooting the petrol, in an arching motion, into the tank to be the safest and most efficient way of refuelling my bike.

I have only been arrested twice.

Cienciano

I always get off and nudge the bike with my hip to get the last drop in. TBH, it sounds more awkward to do it on the bike.

arybvtcw0eolkf

From Adventure Bike Rider.

Tbh the more I read about this the more I'm convinced of it (dismounting the bike) being good practice.

I've started to dismount now too.

Rory28

Octavia Long Weather wrote: »

From Adventure Bike Rider.

Tbh the more I read about this the more I'm convinced of it (dismounting the bike) being good practice.

I've started to dismount now too.

Holy crap that was a scary video

BlackWizard

Rory28 wrote: »

Holy crap that was a scary video

You should check this one out https://youtu.be/ZnZ2XdqGZWU?t=159

Skatedude

Refueling a motorcycle while sitting on it vastly increases the chance of a fire. Bikes can easily pick up static charge in use which is discharged when the stand is put down.

It is not discharged while sitting on the bike due to the rubber tyres and your boots rubber soles.

prunudo

You'd swear there were bikes exploding at petrol stations on a weekly basis. Surely there's as much chance of static refueling a car.

frozenfrozen

IMO the reason to really care about is that if there is a fire, there's a big chance of knocking the bike over and having the fire spread if you are sitting on it while refuelling.

I've sat on the bike while refuelling a couple of times but I don't think I'll be doing it again after the above video, I won't have 5 people with fire extinguishers standing by

BlackWizard

I recently spilled a litre of petrol all over a 125cc motorbike after a long run on it. It went all over the down pipes and engine. I have to admit I was terrified and ask the passenger to move away from it.

I made myself feel safer be thinking that maybe there needs to be a spark to ignite petrol. Anyone want to ruin my happy reassuring thought?

frozenfrozen

BlackWizard wrote: »

I recently spilled a litre of petrol all over a 125cc motorbike after a long run on it. It went all over the down pipes and engine. I have to admit I was terrified and ask the passenger to move away from it.

I made myself feel safer be thinking that maybe there needs to be a spark to ignite petrol. Anyone want to ruin my happy reassuring thought?

250 degrees needed for auto ignition... very easily could go on fire without a spark

Del2005

jvan wrote: »

You'd swear there were bikes exploding at petrol stations on a weekly basis. Surely there's as much chance of static refueling a car.

The driver, or person operating the pump, has earthed the car before they start pumping. Search for videos of people putting fuel into containers on vehicles, purely static causing these fires.

prunudo

Del2005 wrote: »

The driver, or person operating the pump, has earthed the car before they start pumping. Search for videos of people putting fuel into containers on vehicles, purely static causing these fires.

How has a driver earthed it yet a rider sitting on a bike not earthed it?

Skatedude

jvan wrote: »

How has a driver earthed it yet a rider sitting on a bike not earthed it?

Because motorcycle boots are far better insulators then most shoes, coupled with gauntlets makes fires by static discharge more likely.

A car driver would have earthed himself by stepping out of a car, and defiantly when they touched the petrol pump with their hand where a biker would probably still be wearing his gauntlets.

Dont get me wrong, it's still very unlikely, just much more possible than a car, enough so that health and safety rules step in.

prunudo

Skatedude wrote: »

Because motorcycle boots are far better insulators then most shoes, coupled with gauntlets makes fires by static discharge more likely.

A car driver would have earthed himself by stepping out of a car, and defiantly when they touched the petrol pump with their hand where a biker would probably still be wearing his gauntlets.


Dont get me wrong, it's still very unlikely, just much more possible than a car, enough so that health and safety rules step in.

Maybe we should ban people filling their cars while wearing trainers and hiking boots too just to be on the safe side.
Until theres a spate of motorbike fires while refueling I'll take my chances at filling up as I've always done. It's just health and safety nonsense.

Pkiernan

jvan wrote: »

Maybe we should ban people filling their cars while wearing trainers and hiking boots too just to be on the safe side.
Until theres a spate of motorbike fires while refueling I'll take my chances at filling up as I've always done. It's just health and safety nonsense.

It'd be ironic if you're on YouTube next week with your bolllocks on fire !!!!!

prunudo

Pkiernan wrote: »

It'd be ironic if you're on YouTube next week with your bolllocks on fire !!!!!

That be unfortunate but I'll be sure to share it with you.

Lumen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

250 degrees needed for auto ignition... very easily could go on fire without a spark

Not only heat is needed though.

This is quite interesting (PDF)
https://www.doctorfire.com/Forecourts.pdf

For an ignition to occur of gasoline vapors mixed in air, the mixture must be within its flammable range, which are approximately 1% to 7%. With rare exceptions of very cold climates, the interior of the fuel tank is above the UFL, while the outside atmosphere will be below the LFL, thus, once the gas cap is removed, a concentration must exist somewhere between the tank interior and the outside world which is within the flammable range. This flammable zone can surround the filler opening and extend some distance down the filler tube. If a spark occurs in that zone, a fire is likely to result, since an exceedingly small spark energy suffices to ignite gasoline vapors. In view of this innate hazard, there should be absolutely no surprise that accidents of this kind occur—perhaps we should be surprised that the probability of this occurrence is quite low.

Unless I'm misreading it, electrostatic ignition is much more likely than heat ignition due to the fact that the hot bits don't have the right concentration of vapour and the bits with the right concentration aren't hot enough.

Anecdotally, I've sloppily refilled and then immediately restarted my petrol lawnmower many times, splashing petrol all over the outer casing and hot bits. Never once have I been consumed by a fireball.

gctest50

Rory28 wrote: »

Holy crap that was a scary video

you can see the vapours going up here :

Rory28

gctest50 wrote: »

you can see the vapours going up here :

i am buying an electric bike. the new Zero looks good.

gctest50

Rory28 wrote: »

i am buying an electric bike. the new Zero looks good.

lol lithium on yer skin ...... nope

Cienciano

jvan wrote: »

You'd swear there were bikes exploding at petrol stations on a weekly basis. Surely there's as much chance of static refueling a car.

Thing is, there's pretty much zero advantage to doing it. So might as well get off the bike