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Tinkov destroys Contador

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    #32
    thebouldwhacker
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭thebouldwhacker


    pelevin wrote: »
    This is the environment Contador & practically every successful cyclist of that era entered. Unless one gets some pleasure in damning them all from the height of one's own righteousness, I think it bizarre to have a supposed interest in pro-cycling without accepting this reality was the way things were, and hoping they are cycling clean now. Otherwise as said unless one enjoys feeling self-righteously angry, why have an interest in pro-cycling? It would lead to virtually an unbroken thread of those emotions. Personally I stopped watching cycling for years when I was convinced twas filthy, & have gotten into it again in the last 3 or 4 years. What I care about is whether they're cycling clean now. If I again become convinced the top guys are dirty I'll give up on watching it. I think it's unfair to shove this "proven cheat" stuff about that dirty era down people's throats insisting they derive no pleasure but be angry & bitter instead, & hold on tight to this bitterness. Well I don't really enjoy anger & condemnation. I'd much rather just give up on having an interest in it if that's how I'm supposed to feel. Plenty other things to do with one's time.

    They are cheats. Plenty of riders are clean, this 'environment' argument is propagated by cheats to defend themselves, it's a mute argument. If dirty riders chose day one to fight cheating with the same gusto as they did in cheating we would have a very different sport.
    Cheats are cheats, lying, thieving cheats, where is irrelevant. Cheating in a bike race, cheating in a poker game, cheating is cheating and each cheat had one day in their lives to chose to be either clean, have dignity and pride, or, cheat, become a fraud and steal glory from others. It's not self-righteous, it's called having a personal moral code, ethics and respect for fellow man.


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    #33
    pelevin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭pelevin


    thebouldwhacker wrote: »
    They are cheats. Plenty of riders are clean, this 'environment' argument is propagated by cheats to defend themselves, it's a mute argument. If dirty riders chose day one to fight cheating with the same gusto as they did in cheating we would have a very different sport.
    Cheats are cheats, lying, thieving cheats, where is irrelevant. Cheating in a bike race, cheating in a poker game, cheating is cheating and each cheat had one day in their lives to chose to be either clean, have dignity and pride, or, cheat, become a fraud and steal glory from others. It's not self-righteous, it's called having a personal moral code, ethics and respect for fellow man.

    I think you need to use the word 'cheat' a few more times to drive your point home.


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    #34
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Who said he wasn't sanctioned? He was done on strict liability based on he couldn't prove meat as a source - CAS actually suggested contaminated supplement (rather than blood bags) was most likely.

    I'm not saying he his or isn't a drug cheat. I wouldn't stand over anyone in pro cycling, but I certainly wouldn't be sticking the boot into contador while excusing the tramadoled up TUE skybots!


    I never excuse the sky team. All I said was, that contador was a convicted drug cheat, like lance, Gatlin and others


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    #35
    pelevin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭pelevin


    thebouldwhacker wrote: »
    They are cheats. Plenty of riders are clean, this 'environment' argument is propagated by cheats to defend themselves, it's a mute argument. If dirty riders chose day one to fight cheating with the same gusto as they did in cheating we would have a very different sport.
    Cheats are cheats, lying, thieving cheats, where is irrelevant. Cheating in a bike race, cheating in a poker game, cheating is cheating and each cheat had one day in their lives to chose to be either clean, have dignity and pride, or, cheat, become a fraud and steal glory from others. It's not self-righteous, it's called having a personal moral code, ethics and respect for fellow man.

    To give a bit of a deeper response, I already said, "I think it's unfair to shove this "proven cheat" stuff about that dirty era down people's throats insisting they derive no pleasure but be angry & bitter instead, & hold on tight to this bitterness."
    Well this is a thread about pro-cycling. There are obviously many threads here about pro-cycling. SHould you or someone else come onto every single one going on about cheats & basically how it's a joke anyone deriving any pleasure from pro-cycling? Perhaps you'd respond you're only talking about the cheats, not the clean cyclists. Like Dan Martin presumably. Dan rode for a team, several of whom were to use your key word, cheats. It was managed by a cheat. Quite a few of his key wins, particularly his brilliant Liege win, had Ryder Hesjedal playing a big role. For you presumably this completely spoilt the victory - that a cheat played a key role.

    To go to grand tour contenders, you've obviously no time for Contador. I'd say Sky's credibility has gone down the tubes to a big extent. So that's them tainted & stupid to take pleasure in cheats. Quintana has had Valverde as a big team member. So that's him gone as not being essentially of the cheat camp. Nibali for many becuase of being in Astana is gone. Struggling to think of other recent GT winners. Chris Horner! There's one for you. Hesjedal in the Giro. Though we've covered him already.

    So I think that's largely sorted the idea of anyone getting pleasure from pro-cycling. Maybe every pro-cycling thread here should have a sub-heading that this is a degrading way to spend one's time.


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    #36
    velo.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    average_runner wrote: »
    I never excuse the sky team. All I said was, that contador was a convicted drug cheat, like lance, Gatlin and others

    Actually, Contador was found to have 'accidentally ingested' Clenbuterol according to CAS and was banned because the substance was prohibited. Whatever we may believe privately, the above is on record.

    As for Oleg, apparently he's into a bit of wife swapping according to Nico Roche. Heard this from the man himself on a sportive at Fairyhouse in late 2014 just as he was leaving Tinkoff/Saxo for Sky. Roche said Oleg asked him and other riders at a party once could he swap with their partners. Oleg may have been pulling his leg but Roche seemed to think he was fairly serious. Obviously Roche declined the offer!


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    #37
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    velo.2010 wrote: »
    Actually, Contador was found to have 'accidentally ingested' Clenbuterol according to CAS and was banned because the substance was prohibited. Whatever we may believe privately, the above is on record.

    As for Oleg, apparently he's into a bit of wife swapping according to Nico Roche. Heard this from the man himself on a sportive at Fairyhouse in late 2014 just as he was leaving Tinkoff/Saxo for Sky. Roche said Oleg asked him and other riders at a party once could he swap with their partners. Oleg may have been pulling his leg but Roche seemed to think he was fairly serious. Obviously Roche declined the offer!

    No matter what twist you put on it, he served a drug ban and was stripped of a tour because he was caught cheating. So a drug cheat.


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    #38
    D9Male
    Registered Users Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭D9Male


    He was caught with a banned substance in his system, not cheating. Read the ruling. You're the one putting a spin on it.


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    #39
    velo.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    average_runner wrote: »
    No matter what twist you put on it, he served a drug ban and was stripped of a tour because he was caught cheating. So a drug cheat.

    Nope. Read the CAS ruling. They believe (even if you or I don't) that he ingested something from a tainted supplement or other. Strict liability on the substance being in the body meant he got a ban.


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    #40
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    As for Oleg, apparently he's into a bit of wife swapping according to Nico Roche. Heard this from the man himself on a sportive at Fairyhouse in late 2014 just as he was leaving Tinkoff/Saxo for Sky. Roche said Oleg asked him and other riders at a party once could he swap with their partners. Oleg may have been pulling his leg but Roche seemed to think he was fairly serious. Obviously Roche declined the offer!

    What? what century are we living in?? As if the women are owned by the men for swapping purposes

    I am surprised he didn't offer Nico 10 camels !!! NO wonder he ran awy to SKY

    Gotta be a joke ...have you seen Oleg's wife ....she'd eat Nico alive :D


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    #41
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    "Tinkov destroys Contador"

    What an exaggeration. He said that people don't like him. Hardly destructive material thereat all.


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    #42
    velo.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    Tinkoff being the biggest prick on twitter again. Seriously, the man needs to check in somewhere.


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    #43
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,084 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    People are not just one thing.

    Contador is a supremely talented bike rider who's also been sanctioned for a doping offence.

    One does not negate the other.

    Oleg is a loathsome prick. He's also quite entertaining.

    One does not negate the other.


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    #44
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    What he says probably has some merit but how he says it is vulgar


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    #45
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Don't follow the idiot on twitter so can anyone share what guff he is spouting now?


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    #46
    letape
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭letape


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Don't follow the idiot on twitter so can anyone share what guff he is spouting now?

    Effectively that he is overpaid and hasn't delivered in the last year as not hungry enough:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/oleg-tinkov-contador-a-rip-off/


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    #47
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    letape wrote: »
    Effectively that he is overpaid and hasn't delivered in the last year as not hungry enough:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/oleg-tinkov-contador-a-rip-off/

    He said a bit more than that!


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    #48
    letape
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭letape


    godtabh wrote: »
    He said a bit more than that!

    Not that much more!

    "Contador hasn't won any protour race in the last 11 months.He has received 4million euro since then as a salary.What a rip off for investors"


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    #49
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    5sWkgix.png

    That's what was said in English...heaps more in Russian but no translation...
    The man is deranged.


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    #50
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    letape wrote: »
    Not that much more!

    "Contador hasn't won any protour race in the last 11 months.He has received 4million euro since then as a salary.What a rip off for investors"

    See below. he said a lot more and a lot of it was how he said it


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    #51
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users Posts: 14,526 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Fair play to Bertie for saying that to Oleg's face. Takes guts, unlike raving on twitter.


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    #52
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    Darkglasses wrote: »
    Fair play to Bertie for saying that to Oleg's face. Takes guts, unlike raving on twitter.

    What did Contador say to Oleg's face.....its not clear from that article


    Contador is very strong mentally even if his legs ahve seen better days...

    Big mistake though to stay with Tinkov


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