bike thief arrested

Chuchote

dermabrasion wrote: »

After having 5 bikes stolen…
[Garda] gave him another slapping…
I have often thought of the summary justice given by the Garda…
I can see why the Garda gave him a thumping.

Summary justice? I don't think so.

And did it stop this person from thieving? Clearly not. Not a good method.

tomasrojo

There are obviously numerous problems with Gardaí roughing up working-class youths, but in particular I know my in-laws when they were kids used to get picked on by the Gardaí and humiliated when they were doing nothing at all. God knows, the Gardaí turn a blind eye to enough misbehaviour among their ranks. This "Lugs Brannigan" approach is completely counter-productive.

brocbrocach

tomasrojo wrote: »

There are obviously numerous problems with Gardaí roughing up working-class youths, but in particular I know my in-laws when they were kids used to get picked on by the Gardaí and humiliated when they were doing nothing at all. God knows, the Gardaí turn a blind eye to enough misbehaviour among their ranks. This "Lugs Brannigan" approach is completely counter-productive.

It's the Favella/Banlieue effect.
I'm not sure what a good punishment would be though when addiction is part of the equation. Fines? Nah, won't be paid. Imprisonment? Not for a €300 bike.

Chuchote

brocbrocach wrote: »

It's the Favella/Banlieue effect.
I'm not sure what a good punishment would be though when addiction is part of the equation. Fines? Nah, won't be paid. Imprisonment? Not for a €300 bike.

The solution is to cut away the profit by targeting the buyers. If they can't sell it they are less likely to steal it.

I also have a lot less respect for some middle-class scrote (and I use this unpleasant term advisedly) who makes it profitable for a kid to get into crime by buying something he knows to be stolen from the kid.

There used to be a campaign in Boston with notices asking people not to leave their goods on their car seats when they locked and left the car. The catchline was "Don't turn a good boy bad".

Anyone who buys a stolen bike has no conscience if they'll get a kid - who might have an apprenticeship, a few years in America, a lifetime's steady work - into crime and into the network of the kind of people who'll hand him a syringe and say "Try this, tis great crack".

Squeeonline

Chuchote wrote: »

It's illegal, but have you seen the law enforced? Have you seen people prosecuted for buying stolen bikes? Not only have you not, but the fact that bike thieves confidently approach people on the street to buy their swag shows the contempt they hold the possibility in!

Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean that we shouldn't bother or that it's unenforceable.

At an extreme end, we could have licences for bikes like with cars, and require a paper trial for their purchase/sale.

Chuchote

Squeeonline wrote: »

Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean that we shouldn't bother or that it's unenforceable.

At an extreme end, we could have licences for bikes like with cars, and require a paper trial for their purchase/sale.

It's starting to happen; more and more ads on Adverts.ie, creditably, are mentioning the words "Have original receipt" or even add a photo of the receipt with name and address blanked out.

There's also a nice little earner to be made by someone who'll set up a shop that will engrave your name in nice lettering on your bike. A German neighbour whose bike was nicked got it back within days when the Gardaí saw the name engraved on a bike under someone who didn't look right on it.

eeeee

The problem is much bigger than bike theft - as long as we live on a neoliberal capitalist society that is founded and maintained by inequality you will have bike theft. By taking part in this system we are condoning it, and perpetrating the conditions that make bike theft and it's attendant conditional necessities occur.
It's all our fault.
Dehunamising people by labeling them 'junkies' and 'scumbags' others people, and allows them to be treated as sub-human, and separate. It creates a them-and-us mentality, demonising them for 'not taking part' in the current dominant ideological system of governance prevalent a the time.
It's an economic and ideological/philosophical problem we all have a part and responsibility in creating and perpetrating. Pillorying the 'victims' or losers in the system is not going to help in finding a solution to these problems (bike theft here). Applying some critical thinking and genuine understanding the issues faced by everyone in this faulty system is the only way forward IMO.

magicbastarder

nee wrote: »

By taking part in this system we are condoning it, and perpetrating the conditions that make bike theft and it's attendant conditional necessities occur.
It's all our fault.

can you let me know how i don't take part in this system?

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

can you let me know how i don't take part in this system?

I haven't got the answer to that.
Acquisition, capital and consumption are not questioned anywhere near enough.
You can choose the level you participate in it though, how much do you need to live, and erosion what your priorities are.
And be aware of your privilege. That's the least talked about thing in my experience. Middle class people are bizarrely ashamed of it, and rush in with less privileged credentials in my experience. People situate themselves always against those who have more rather than less than them, in order to feel less guilty and more justified in exercising their privilege or absolving their social responsibilities (see the massive rent increases in Dublin at the moment as an example). Reframing that argument critically isn't a bad start.

Chuchote

Yeah, but I don't want people stealing stuff I've worked hard to get.

eeeee

Chuchote wrote: »

Yeah, but I don't want people stealing stuff I've worked hard to get.

That's a really good example of what I was taking about - 'yeah great but my stuff and my things matter more than massive inequality and injustice in society locally and globally'. That exact attitude is what creates the problem and condones the system in place at the moment.
Symptom/problem blah blah blah.

Chuchote

nee wrote: »

That's a really good example of what I was taking about - 'yeah great but my stuff and my things matter more than massive inequality and injustice in society locally and globally'. That exact attitude is what creates the problem and condones the system in place at the moment.
Symptom/problem blah blah blah.

Uhhh, no! Massive inequality certainly matters to me. But I don't think the solution is to say "Yeah, ok, right, it's ok for you to steal from me or me from you". I think the solution is to work for greater equality. That's kind of obv https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spirit-Level-Equality-Better-Everyone/dp/0241954290/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476051621&sr=1-1&keywords=the+spirit+level

eeeee

Chuchote wrote: »

. But I don't think the solution is to say "Yeah, ok, right, it's ok for you to steal from me or me from you". Iel[/url]

That's not the point I made In my post

magicbastarder

nee wrote: »

That's a really good example of what I was taking about - 'yeah great but my stuff and my things matter more than massive inequality and injustice in society locally and globally'. That exact attitude is what creates the problem and condones the system in place at the moment.
Symptom/problem blah blah blah.

nonsense. saying 'i don't want my stuff stolen' in no way shape or form can be seen as 'my stuff is more important than world hunger'. i can't even begin to fathom what the causal link is.

Chuchote

Have to say I'm kind of enjoying imagining myself as a heartless beastly capitalist! An unfamiliar sensation. Think I'll just light up my cigar and enjoy my port while laughing heartily at the plight of the working man now. (snap) Forsythe! More caviare!

magicbastarder

is that le caviare or la caviare?

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

is that le caviare or la caviare?

It's eggs! Of course it's le caviare

Enduro

nee wrote: »

The problem is much bigger than bike theft - as long as we live on a neoliberal capitalist society that is founded and maintained by inequality you will have bike theft. By taking part in this system we are condoning it, and perpetrating the conditions that make bike theft and it's attendant conditional necessities occur.
It's all our fault.
Dehunamising people by labeling them 'junkies' and 'scumbags' others people, and allows them to be treated as sub-human, and separate. It creates a them-and-us mentality, demonising them for 'not taking part' in the current dominant ideological system of governance prevalent a the time.
It's an economic and ideological/philosophical problem we all have a part and responsibility in creating and perpetrating. Pillorying the 'victims' or losers in the system is not going to help in finding a solution to these problems (bike theft here). Applying some critical thinking and genuine understanding the issues faced by everyone in this faulty system is the only way forward IMO.

That's a frankly disgusting attitude. The vast majority of people who are relatively financially less well off do not resort to theft. They are perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong and choosing the more ethical path. Similarly there are plenty of relatively weatlthy people who steal things. Relative wealth and personal morality are not collected. It's absolutely disgusting that you seem to think that being relatively poor justifies unethical behavior. It show a real disrespect for the vast majority of relatively poor people who do not steal.

Inequality exists as we're human beings, not an ant colony. Different people have different skills and abilities. Any society which tries to level that off is doomed to massive injustice. The only good attempt I can recall at it was the Khmer Rouge, who were prepared to do what was necessary to eliminate any discrepencies in human abilities. Not a great model to adopt, IMO.

Equality of opportunity is a good thing. It's completely incompatible with equality of outcome though.

Chuchote

There's also the point (and I must apologise for constantly banging on about this) that bicycle theft is what 'turns a good boy bad', puts him into contact with really sketchy, nasty people, teaches him that it's ok to steal from others, leads him away from a life of honest work.
By not prosecuting people who buy stolen bikes, we are leading working-class kids into a life that will destroy them.

brocbrocach

Chuchote wrote: »

There's also the point (and I must apologise for constantly banging on about this) that bicycle theft is what 'turns a good boy bad', puts him into contact with really sketchy, nasty people, teaches him that it's ok to steal from others, leads him away from a life of honest work.
By not prosecuting people who buy stolen bikes, we are leading working-class kids into a life that will destroy them.

Maybe it allows him to buy food that he can feed his struggling family with, cos his mam is on gear and no-good, and one day his little brother will grow up to be an AIDS doctor in Africa.

Beasty

Chuchote wrote: »

a heartless beastly capitalist!

Oh God! what have I done now

Chuchote

brocbrocach wrote: »

Maybe it allows him to buy food that he can feed his struggling family with, cos his mam is on gear and no-good, and one day his little brother will grow up to be an AIDS doctor in Africa.

Mmmnot really. What would do that is helping him into a job.

brocbrocach

Chuchote wrote: »

Mmmnot really. What would do that is helping him into a job.

Only if they have "the right stuff" in em though. We have quite enough plumbers and electricians of dubious character.

tomasrojo

Enduro wrote: »

Inequality exists as we're human beings, not an ant colony. Different people have different skills and abilities.

And different amounts of money in their parents' bank accounts. And different social environments that might lead you never to explore what skills and abilities you have.

Enduro wrote: »

Any society which tries to level that off is doomed to massive injustice. The only good attempt I can recall at it was the Khmer Rouge, who were prepared to do what was necessary to eliminate any discrepencies in human abilities.

To be fair, there are numerous social democracies that try to limit discrepancies in income, for the greater good of society. Wealth gathers wealth, so quite a lot of wealthy people, the great majority in fact, make small fortunes every year because they're already in possession of a large fortune.


This doesn't really sort out bike theft.

Chuchote

brocbrocach wrote: »

Only if they have "the right stuff" in em though. We have quite enough plumbers and electricians of dubious character.

Hah, think of France, where les flics retire early, but before they retire are trained, mostly as craftsmen, so the State has a network of spies mending everyone's plumbing.

More seriously, dubious character doesn't appertain to class. Working-class people are as likely to be kind and moral as upper-class people.

I offer you Ken, a kid of sixteen, whose mother would like him to stay in school and go on to get a good job; she herself is working responsibly. His father shrugs, he's going down to the pub. Ken has two role models, and is teetering between the two choices of way of life. Then he meets a friend from school who's licking his finger to count the nine lovely fifties he's got for a bike he nicked and sold on the street…

Whoever bought that bike has now tipped Ken's choice the wrong way.

eeeee

Enduro wrote: »

That's a frankly disgusting attitude. The vast majority of people who are relatively financially less well off do not resort to theft. They are perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong and choosing the more ethical path. Similarly there are plenty of relatively weatlthy people who steal things. Relative wealth and personal morality are not collected. It's absolutely disgusting that you seem to think that being relatively poor justifies unethical behavior. It show a real disrespect for the vast majority of relatively poor people who do not steal.

Inequality exists as we're human beings, not an ant colony. Different people have different skills and abilities. Any society which tries to level that off is doomed to massive injustice. The only good attempt I can recall at it was the Khmer Rouge, who were prepared to do what was necessary to eliminate any discrepencies in human abilities. Not a great model to adopt, IMO.

Equality of opportunity is a good thing. It's completely incompatible with equality of outcome though.

Never said all less well off people resort to crime.

And I never said it's wrong to be upset about your stuff being stolen.

I did say that bike theft is emblematic of much, much bigger social problems that 99% of people ignore or don't even think about or consider; they're just happy to vilify the thief without trying to understand what may have made the situation arise in the first place, and what that means and what they can do about it.

Chuchote

nee wrote: »

Never said all less well off people resort to crime.

And I never said it's wrong to be upset about your stuff being stolen.

I did say that bike theft is emblematic of much, much bigger social problems that 99% of people ignore or don't even think about or consider; they're just happy to vilify the thief without trying to understand what may have made the situation arise in the first place, and what that means and what they can do about it.

You're right in that; it is, and 99% do.

newacc2015

nee wrote: »

Never said all less well off people resort to crime.

And I never said it's wrong to be upset about your stuff being stolen.

I did say that bike theft is emblematic of much, much bigger social problems that 99% of people ignore or don't even think about or consider; they're just happy to vilify the thief without trying to understand what may have made the situation arise in the first place, and what that means and what they can do about it.

Its nice to think so fondly of people with drug addictions. 99% of people dont like them as they have zero remorse stealing from loved ones/relatives. It is hard to feel empathy towards a heroin addict whose only motive in life is to get his next fix regardless of his effects on others whether it be stealing a students bike or snatching a phone off a child.

It is easy to blame capitalism and the society we live in etc etc and all the other sociology BS. But there as heroin addicts in Dublin with family relatives in excellent well paying jobs. Some addicts choose a different path and they are the only ones responsible for that.

The Government needs to do more to reduce addiction in the City. If we reduced the amount of addicts, crime would fall in the City. But lets not pretend all heroin addicts are victims of capitalism. There are plenty of people without a pot to piss in who would never go for heroin

endacl

newacc2015 wrote: »

Its nice to think so fondly of people with drug addictions. 99% of people dont like them as they have zero remorse stealing from loved ones/relatives. It is hard to feel empathy towards a heroin addict whose only motive in life is to get his next fix regardless of his effects on others whether it be stealing a students bike or snatching a phone off a child.

It is easy to blame capitalism and the society we live in etc etc and all the other sociology BS. But there as heroin addicts in Dublin with family relatives in excellent well paying jobs. Some addicts choose a different path and they are the only ones responsible for that.

The Government needs to do more to reduce addiction in the City. If we reduced the amount of addicts, crime would fall in the City. But lets not pretend all heroin addicts are victims of capitalism. There are plenty of people without a pot to piss in who would never go for heroin

Indeed. The harsh reality is that the choice to take heroin for the first time is a choice. And in this day and age, it's an overwhelmingly informed choice.

eeeee

endacl wrote: »

Indeed. The harsh reality is that the choice to take heroin for the first time is a choice. And in this day and age, it's an overwhelmingly informed choice.

A number of my family members are heroin addicts and methadone users.

It's not a choice, its most definitely not.

It's easy to spout that ignorant, uninformed, dispassionate shyte from the comfort of middle class privilege, but those of us not so lucky to be born to it have a right different experience of choice.
Imagine you grow up in a chaotic, unstable home. You have no stable family. No one you know, in or outside your house has a stable job, they suffer drug addiction. Various forms of abuse are rife. No one tells you to go to school. No one makes you breakfast in the mornings. No one checks if you've been to school. You don't know anyone in your family or circle who's ever been to college. Jobs and education are a world away from your reality.
You live, as most people do, as you were reared. You're surrounded by others like you.

Trust me it's not clear as day to see out of that. It's fcuking hard and you often have to leave your community behind.

Leaving school at 15 in darndale is a very different prospect to leaving school at 15 in sandycove. Privilege is a thing that exists.

Drug addiction is a symptom of the problem. If it were only about drugs we'd all be addicts after ever operation we have that requires morphine.

I know what's behind my family members heroin addiction. And it's not choice.
Junkies are people like you or I.

You cannot, CANNOT judge them as one conglomerate sub human group. They have their own histories and they don't end up on heroin because life was rosy.

Not understanding that shows a blatant and wilful lack of compassion, understanding and a barrowful of ignorance.

It's easy to see how cloistered, sheltered and divided we are becoming as a society.
The gap between the haves and the have nots had never been wider nor more difficult to bridge.