Irish cyclists looking for a €1b investment? - note stay on-topic warning, post #160

blackwhite

Zynks wrote: »

All bikes have a serial number. It is normally under the pedal crank

The one the Gardai were promoting in the college (Galway, early noughties) involved them engraving their own number somewhere on the frame and recording that.

WindomEarle

blackwhite wrote: »

The one the Gardai were promoting in the college (Galway, early noughties) involved them engraving their own number somewhere on the frame and recording that.

Madness - why engrave a 2nd number in addition to the serial number?

Chuchote wrote: »

http://bikeregister.ie/? And wasn't there a discussion of a garda in the Bridewell station who was registering bicycles?

Donnybrook station will do this - see irishcycle dot com for more details.

Carawaystick

Zynks wrote: »

All bikes have a serial number. It is normally under the pedal crank

And on some bikes, this is on a sticker.

shootermacg

Carawaystick wrote: »

And on some bikes, this is on a sticker.

Would the shop have a record of the serial number? I can't make quite mine out and I need to get it insured.

Carawaystick

shootermacg wrote: »

Would the shop have a record of the serial number? I can't make quite mine out and I need to get it insured.

Maybe. maybe not. If it was a rare type of bike for them to sell, it might be possible for them to track it down from the manufacturer, but possibly not either.

I always thought as part of the cycle to work scheme a register of bikes sold to people should have been set up, and possibly once available ramped up to all bikes sold to give a degree of traceability to reduce the attractiveness of buying stolen bikes.

Chuchote

Carawaystick wrote: »

Maybe. maybe not. If it was a rare type of bike for them to sell, it might be possible for them to track it down from the manufacturer, but possibly not either.

I always thought as part of the cycle to work scheme a register of bikes sold to people should have been set up, and possibly once available ramped up to all bikes sold to give a degree of traceability to reduce the attractiveness of buying stolen bikes.

Absolutely. It could be part of or allied to bikeregister.ie And the frame number should be on the receipt from all bike shops for all bikes, new or secondhand.

magicbastarder

an interesting article about how the car is beginning to wane in some american cities - with a lot of focus on cycle facilities to replace them:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/02/america-road-trip-us-car-habit-detroit-houston-los-angeles

Mortpourvelo

magicbastarder wrote: »

an interesting article about how the car is beginning to wane in some american cities - with a lot of focus on cycle facilities to replace them:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/02/america-road-trip-us-car-habit-detroit-houston-los-angeles

Car owners contribute to the upkeep of the roads though, wouldn't a lack of cars mean a lack of vehicle related taxes ? How would the infrastructure be paid for ?

Regarding the OP - who will pay the billion euro ?

jwwb

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Car owners contribute to the upkeep of the roads though, wouldn't a lack of cars mean a lack of vehicle related taxes ? How would the infrastructure be paid for ?

Regarding the OP - who will pay the billion euro ?

True but cyclists don't really contribute much to wear and tear. Then again neither to cars. Heard a factoid that I don't know is true - perhaps someone can confirm - that a single HGV will cause the same amount of wear and tear of 30k cars

magicbastarder

that was probably me.
the stat was that a vehicle causes damage proportional to the third power of the weight per axle (or possibly per wheel, must look that up).
for a cyclist, that's say 50kg per axle, for a car, 750kg. so a car would cause about 3000 times the wear and tear that a bicycle would.

magicbastarder

found an article on it, which links to some more academic looking papers - it's generally accepted the damage is between the third and fourth power, depends on the way the road is constructed.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/September-2011/Chicagos-SUV-Tax-and-Road-Damage-Do-the-Numbers-Add-Up/

so for my example above, the damage a car does would be somewhere between 3,000 and 45,000 times the damage done by a bike.

jwwb

magicbastarder wrote: »

found an article on it, which links to some more academic looking papers - it's generally accepted the damage is between the third and fourth power, depends on the way the road is constructed.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/September-2011/Chicagos-SUV-Tax-and-Road-Damage-Do-the-Numbers-Add-Up/

so for my example above, the damage a car does would be somewhere between 3,000 and 45,000 times the damage done by a bike.

So if car motortax is say €300 pa then biketax should be at most €0.10 pa and HGV motortax should €2,700,000 pa - give or take

shootermacg

jwwb wrote: »

So if car motortax is say €300 pa then biketax should be at most €0.10 pa and HGV motortax should €2,700,000 pa - give or take

I'd gladly pay my 10 cents, just to shut some of the whiners up.

eeguy

shootermacg wrote: »

I'd gladly pay my 10 cents, just to shut some of the whiners up.

I'd pay triple roadtax, just to feel even more smug.

magicbastarder

the 11,000 cyclists who cross the canal cordon every day would pay a grand total of €1,100 in tax p.a.

sure that's barely enough for a set of wheels.

Carawaystick

But they'd get caught for about 18.7% of the price of wheels as tax..

shootermacg

Instead of asking Shane Ross for some cash, why not propose a fat tax:

http://wafflesatnoon.com/illegal-to-be-overweight-in-japan/

I'm sure more motorists would happily contribute to their own health.

cdaly_

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Car owners contribute to the upkeep of the roads though, wouldn't a lack of cars mean a lack of vehicle related taxes ?

Ireland brings in around €1bn in motor tax but spends €1.7bn on transport. That does not include expenditure on the aftermath of collisions nor the expenditure on obesity related health problems.

How would the infrastructure be paid for ?

Out of general taxation (and EU funding), just like it is now...

Chuchote

Thing about separated cycling infrastructure - it's cheap to make, and it's also far, far cheaper to maintain. So it's a very good investment.

A couple of for-instances:

In New York, Transport Commissioner made separated cycleways by temporarily changing roads, for example by lining the edge with potted plants. Those which became popular (because on a particular road they made it nicer to cycle and to drive, and moved a lot of people from driving to cycling) were then made permanent. Here's a TED talk where she goes through what she did:

https://www.ted.com/talks/janette_sadik_khan_new_york_s_streets_not_so_mean_any_more?language=en#t-229446

In Gröningen, they've made this small and compact city really, really cycleable. I think this might be a video that gives figures on how much money is saved compared to motor roads, but I'm not sure, it's a while since I watched these.

https://vimeo.com/76207227

Mortpourvelo

If er can get the majority of cyclists to commit to only using the facilities meant for them - and not cycling wherever they like, then great.

But I don't see that happening.

Chuchote

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

If er can get the majority of cyclists to commit to only using the facilities meant for them - and not cycling wherever they like, then great.

But I don't see that happening.

Depends on "the facilities meant for them". In Dublin, an awful lot of cycle lanes are unsafe.

In general, people will cycle, walk or drive in the place that is safest and most pleasant. Look at the throngs of people who cycle along the Grand Canal cycleway every day at rush hour, for instance. It's a well-built section of the infrastructure, and 99% of cyclists use it.

Mortpourvelo

Chuchote wrote: »

Depends on "the facilities meant for them". In Dublin, an awful lot of cycle lanes are unsafe.

In general, people will cycle, walk or drive in the place that is safest and most pleasant. Look at the throngs of people who cycle along the Grand Canal cycleway every day at rush hour, for instance. It's a well-built section of the infrastructure, and 99% of cyclists use it.

Fine, but if it's meant for pedestrians only cyclists should not be there.

ted1

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

If er can get the majority of cyclists to commit to only using the facilities meant for them - and not cycling wherever they like, then great.

But I don't see that happening.

Sorry you need to expand because roads are meant for all vehicle.

I

magicbastarder

there's a difference between cyclists not using facilities provided for the use of just pedestrians, and cyclists not using facilities explicitly provided just for the use of cyclists.

Mortpourvelo

ted1 wrote: »

Sorry you need to expand because roads are meant for all vehicle.

I

Pavements, pedestrianised areas and pedestrianised bridges aren't.

Mortpourvelo

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's a difference between cyclists not using facilities explicitly for the use of pedestrians, and cyclists not using facilities explicitly for the use of cyclists.

Well put, thank you.

It's the use of pedestrian only areas that is my bug bear.

E.g. "NO ENTRY" on a road means cyclists also.

magicbastarder

i don't think you'll find too many cyclists on this forum clamouring for the right to cycle across a pedestrian bridge.
most such cyclists here would self-identify as cyclists and probably take their responsibilities more seriously.

Mortpourvelo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think you'll find too many cyclists on this forum clamouring for the right to cycle across a pedestrian bridge.
most such cyclists here would self-identify as cyclists and probably take their responsibilities more seriously.

Agreed, the offenders are almost all Dublin Bikes users.

If you're serious about cycling to spend decent money on a bike and gear you're generally going to have a decent amount of common courtesy and sense.

However, there is one **** who wears some sort of breathing apparatus like Bane out of the last Batman film and goes hell for leather down Eustace St and across the Millennium Bridge like a nutter! He is gonna hurt someone soon.

Seaswimmer

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Agreed, the offenders are almost all Dublin Bikes users.

If you're serious about cycling to spend decent money on a bike and gear you're generally going to have a decent amount of common courtesy and sense.

However, there is one **** who wears some sort of breathing apparatus like Bane out of the last Batman film and goes hell for leather down Eustace St and across the Millennium Bridge like a nutter! He is gonna hurt someone soon.

Is Eustace Street not cobbled?

Don't think I would bother cycling on it at slow speeds never mind flying down it..

Wonder how he manages on wet cobbles. His bike handling skills must be good:cool:

Mortpourvelo

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Is Eustace Street not cobbled?

Don't think I would bother cycling on it at slow speeds never mind flying down it..

Wonder how he manages on wet cobbles. His bike handling skills must be good:cool:

It is cobbles but they go on the pavement!!