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Irish cyclists looking for a €1b investment? - note stay on-topic warning, post #160

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    #122
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    shootermacg wrote:
    Cyclist: Car are dangerous, they kill cyclists, pedestrians and each other. Car driver: I find cyclists annoying.

    What has any of this got to do with cycling infrastructure?

    The same tired old argument from people who don't understand the concept of the rules of the road I.e. keep people safe and the fact gardai don't have a limitless budget so are always going to target the road users who kill people on a regular basis first I.e. cars.

    The biggest question about putting a billion into cycling infrastructure is that without the right planning and design most of that money would go down the drain given current design standards.


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    #123
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    PeadarCo wrote: »
    What has any of this got to do with cycling infrastructure?

    The same tired old argument from people who don't understand the concept of the rules of the road I.e. keep people safe and the fact gardai don't have a limitless budget so are always going to target the road users who kill people on a regular basis first I.e. cars.

    The biggest question about putting a billion into cycling infrastructure is that without the right planning and design most of that money would go down the drain given current design standards.

    It stopped being about that ages ago and is now basically what i just posted.


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    #124
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    shootermacg wrote:
    It stopped being about that ages ago and is now basically what i just posted.

    Its depressing. The futility of having a nuanced argument on social media and boards is one of the relatively sane places on the internet as things go


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    #125
    Arthur.beaker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Arthur.beaker


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    You do know there's a difference between the rules of the road and laws such as those for road traffic don't you?

    And you do realise that someone posted showing where cycling on the footpath is illegal right?


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    #126
    Arthur.beaker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Arthur.beaker


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    And you do realise that someone posted showing where cycling on the footpath is illegal right?

    If you don't know the rules of the road you shouldn't be cycling. Simples.


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    #127
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it turns out that the department of transport and the RSA cannot be trusted to know what the law and the rules of the road are, so they're setting a low bar for the rest of us.


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    #128
    coolbeans
    Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    It's the 1861 offences against the person act.

    It's being amended so as to remove the death penalty.
    Unless you can show me absct with regards cycling on footpaths then I'm not going to go off the word of some guy on the net.

    And we wonder why other road users and pedestrians hate cyclists?

    Cyclists are just people man, chill.


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    #129
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    And we wonder why other road users and pedestrians hate cyclists?

    They don't. A few lunatics do, but not other road users generally.


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    #130
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    PeadarCo wrote: »
    The biggest question about putting a billion into cycling infrastructure is that without the right planning and design most of that money would go down the drain given current design standards.

    +1

    What i'd love is for them to to get a budget like that and then hire a proper expert like this guy to oversee the spend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8zZdLw7cs


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    #131
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,493 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    And we wonder why other road users and pedestrians hate cyclists?

    You know that. Most cyclists are also drivers and pedestrians


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    #132
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Cienciano wrote: »
    It's an opinion piece by Ian O'Doherty designed to wind up cyclists. Judging by this thread, looks like it's working very well

    Publishing stuff like this has certainly convinced me (a long time ago) that the Independent is worthless. That seems counterproductive but so long as they are annoying cyclists, and empowering the anti-cycling muppetry on display in this thread, I guess it's all worth it.


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    #133
    Arthur.beaker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Arthur.beaker


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    Publishing stuff like this has certainly convinced me (a long time ago) that the Independent is worthless. That seems counterproductive but so long as they are annoying cyclists, and empowering the anti-cycling muppetry on display in this thread, I guess it's all worth it.

    Hardly surprising that there is anti cycling muppetry in here when you have cyclists claiming they can legally cycle in footpaths.


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    #134
    jive
    Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    Hardly surprising that there is anti cycling muppetry in here when you have cyclists claiming they can legally cycle in footpaths.

    Yeah let's keep our focus on the major issues, cyclists on footpaths.

    There's plenty of stupid and crap cyclists. Probably a similar to the number of idiots driving cars as a percentage. The difference is a bicycle is a less dangerous weapon than a 2 tonne vehicle.


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    #135
    Arthur.beaker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Arthur.beaker


    jive wrote: »
    Yeah let's keep our focus on the major issues, cyclists on footpaths.

    There's plenty of stupid and crap cyclists. Probably a similar to the number of idiots driving cars as a percentage. The difference is a bicycle is a less dangerous weapon than a 2 tonne vehicle.

    Let's bring motorists up when discussing poor cycling.


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    #136
    Commotion Ocean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 552 ✭✭✭Commotion Ocean


    If we do spend 1,000,000,000 Euro, the the use of the infrastructure MUST become mandatory. Otherwise, it's wasted money.

    I think a system like in The Netherlands where 50cc mopeds can share the cycle lane too would be fair.


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    #137
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    christ; if i commit hara kiri to atone for an off the cuff humorous comment i made earlier in the thread about where to source the money, will you stop talking about bad behaviour in cyclists?


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    #138
    Arthur.beaker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 179 ✭✭Arthur.beaker


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    christ; if i commit hara kiri to atone for an off the cuff humorous comment i made earlier in the thread about where to source the money, will you stop talking about bad behaviour in cyclists?

    Only if the bad behaviour stops.


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    #139
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    dfeo wrote: »
    If we do spend 1,000,000,000 Euro, the the use of the infrastructure MUST become mandatory. Otherwise, it's wasted money.
    you could have sections which were mandatory and sections which were optional. few cyclists would object if the mandatory sections were up to the job.

    i live very near the current most favoured route for the metro north; i reckon it'd be sensible to have a cycle lane built alongside on the sections where it's expected to be overground; this was a missed opportunity with the green line luas (though the crossing over the dodder was obviously going to be an engineering challenge for that).

    when you're doing big disruptive capital projects like that, it's the easiest time to piggyback on cycle superhighways which would otherwise not be given any thought, as they'd be too disruptive on their own.


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    #140
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    dfeo wrote: »
    If we do spend 1,000,000,000 Euro, the the use of the infrastructure MUST become mandatory. Otherwise, it's wasted money.

    I think a system like in The Netherlands where 50cc mopeds can share the cycle lane too would be fair.

    Dear heart, you don't need to make it mandatory. People will use the cycleways if they're designed and built well.

    There's a lot of debate in the Netherlands about allowing mopeds to use cycle lanes - wild lads on mopeds can be quite dangerous to the families cycling there. The Netherlands also allows wheelchairs and those tiny cars built in Holland for the disabled to use their excellent network of cycleways.


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    #141
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    speaking of tiny cars, i was recently in lisbon and it was very interesting to see just how many smart cars and other cars of a similar size there were there. that said, it's a city with some incredibly narrow streets.


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    #142
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,652 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    We're a country with an obesity and mental health problem. This would be an investment in our physical health, mental health, our environment, our infrastructure and future generations.

    The people conjuring up all sorts of imaginary, petty, spiteful reasons for it not to be spent should be ignored, their Orwellian four wheels good, two wheels bad mantra is running dry.

    The objections on this thread are laughable.


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    #143
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    Only if the bad behaviour stops.
    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    Let's bring motorists up when discussing poor cycling.
    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    Hardly surprising that there is anti cycling muppetry in here when you have cyclists claiming they can legally cycle in footpaths.
    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    If you don't know the rules of the road you shouldn't be cycling. Simples.
    Arthur.beaker wrote: »
    And you do realise that someone posted showing where cycling on the footpath is illegal right?

    A bit more substance and a little less snipping please, and read the Commuting and Transport charter before posting again.

    -- Moderator


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    #144
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    It's also important to note that cycling in London has risen 60% since the excellent wide protected cycleways were built there. A lot of people cycle if they feel safe to do so.


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    #145
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    We're a country with a .. mental health problem.
    this is one thing that is not really focussed on much. thankfully (touch wood) i've suffered from fairly robust such health, but years ago i did go through a very stressful patch in work; and i reckon taking the stress out on the commute on the bike was invaluable. it was a 14 mile commute each way so gave me plenty of scope to bleed the stress off.


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    #146
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Sometimes you get the impression that some drivers think there's an intrinsic connection between the power of their engines, the size of their cars, the heft of their wallet and the length of their mickeys.

    A bit higher level of debate please, or at least a bit less crude, thanks.

    -- moderator


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    #147
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    actually, i know the facilities guys in work well enough; i've seen the blueprints for our building, but never thought to ask how many people are registered* to cycle in, vs. how many car parking spaces worth of the basement is taken up catering for them.

    *you are expected to register, the reason being that over the years, bikes were abandoned in the bike cage, with no method of linking them to an owner. now, you register, and are given a sticker to put on your frame, so if they suspect a bike is abandoned, it's an easy check to see if the owner is still with the company.


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    #148
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Warning to all: Back on topic or the thread may be locked, and you may also get infracted or banned.

    The topic is: is cycling worth 10% of the transport budget.


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    #149
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,652 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    this is one thing that is not really focussed on much. thankfully (touch wood) i've suffered from fairly robust such health, but years ago i did go through a very stressful patch in work; and i reckon taking the stress out on the commute on the bike was invaluable. it was a 14 mile commute each way so gave me plenty of scope to bleed the stress off.

    Glad you got through that patch Magic. I have a very very stressful job. When I had to drive (créche drop off) I found work much more stressful than when I cycle in. I can take two routes, a scenic coastal run or a busy, fast paced, in traffic commute. I take either depending on my mood after cycling to the school with my little boy.

    SUCH a good work out for the body and mind before a busy day and after a busy day.

    On a side note, when cycling you really see how bad car drivers are compared to cyclists and cycling 100% makes a better driver.


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    #150
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    to be fair, one of the most stressful days i had in the time when i was doing that commute was the incredibly windy day where i was blown to a complete stop (that sounds rude) three times on the way home. my usual 55 minute commute took nearly an hour and a half.


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    #151
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    monument wrote: »
    A bit higher level of debate please, or at least a bit less crude, thanks.

    -- moderator

    Sorry to be crude; I've become impatient because when I was driving, if I motioned another driver on, gave way or took care passing, I'd expect and get a kindly flash of the headlights, wave of the hand or brief blink of the hazards. Since I've been cycling, my road behaviour is exactly the same, but the courteous response - no sign of it. It's as if I've become invisible. And some driver behaviour is quite extraordinary, like the driver who passed me out at speed (crossing a white line) outside Rathmines Garda Station the other day while I was passing out a bus and signalling that I was taking the right fork; the driver then swerved left across me to take the left fork.
    You occasionally see this kind of boorish behaviour when you're in a car, but it's almost the norm when you're on a bicycle.


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