Irish cyclists looking for a €1b investment? - note stay on-topic warning, post #160

eeguy

shootermacg wrote: »

Maybe sit in your car??

Hah, yep that can be done. Depends how the car park is laid out.

I'm basing this off my own experiences in the Dublin Airport carpark. Those shelters are freezing.

monument

2RockMountain wrote: »

Anyone who is interested in understanding what RoadHawk really thinks about cyclists might like to check out this post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101396519&postcount=3185

It was interested to note a very different tone in the AH forum, much more frank, and dare I say it, much more honest about his true motives.

You may want to take this into account in deciding how you engage.

I've deleted other posts which accused RoadHawk of trolling, which is against the rules and I'm also warning 2RockMountain not to post like this again but rather contact mods first, but I think in this case I'm not deleting this post because it shows a very extremely different posting style. It's not normal to have such extreme views across different forums and people are to entitled to see the views of posters they are debating with.

RoadHawk may if he wants appeal this directly to C&T's other mod and our in-house admin (ie BuffyBot).

PS: To those to reported 2RockMountain's post with snarky points: I had not seen his post until it was reported!

-- moderator

monument

BTW next poster to attack RoadHawk (not his posts) will get an infraction. Report posts, send links etc if you want.

shootermacg wrote: »

Your posts are idiotic. Does this fall within the "attack the posts not the poster" rule?

It's fine because it focuses on the post, but on the other hand it's not fine because it lacks any debate or detail.

-- moderator

lucernarian

A lot of these bypasses are built for better or worse, can we move on now? Besides there aren't that many large scale road projects planned/needed in the country outside Cork and some of the GDA. Sadly the low priority M17 and Enniscorthy routes are already being built or will inevitably happen.

None of that will change where we are. There is a pathetic amount of money for future cycling schemes, especially when there's only the M20/28 left to build in the big schemes.

magicbastarder

Deedsie wrote: »

Though interestingly roadhawk did happen to highlight what is probably the most successful small village in Ireland in the last five years. Barack Obama plaza has created jobs, large numbers of tourists regularly flock to Moneygall.

not so - i heard a local trader being interviewed about the fact that the barack obama plaza has turned moneygall itself into more of a ghosttown than it was before. the tourists flock to the plaza, not the town.

magicbastarder

‘Unnecessary deaths’ caused by low spend on cycling infrastructure
UN report says 20% of transport budget should be spent in area but just 1% will be in 2016
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/unnecessary-deaths-caused-by-low-spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-1.2837200

magicbastarder

still sounds like it's a poster child for a development on the outskirts doing no favours for the town centre itself.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

‘Unnecessary deaths’ caused by low spend on cycling infrastructure
UN report says 20% of transport budget should be spent in area but just 1% will be in 2016
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/unnecessary-deaths-caused-by-low-spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-1.2837200

Very interesting:

Ireland is grossly underinvesting in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure which helps to save lives and reduce carbon emissions, according to a report from the UN’s Environment Programme.
The report argues that countries should invest at least 20 per cent of their transport budgets in walking and cycling facilities but finds that Ireland spends less than 1 per cent on these facilities.

So much for the maiden-aunt-like squeaks from motorists at the idea of investing 10% of transport budget into cycleways and walkways.

eeguy

magicbastarder wrote: »

still sounds like it's a poster child for a development on the outskirts doing no favours for the town centre itself.

Rural Towns and villages across the country are dead. Why limit yourself when a motorway or online shopping gives you much more range and value? It's been happening since the late 90's.

Plenty of areas have been in recession since the 90's, were unaffected by the Celtic Tiger and hit hardest in the last 8 years.

That's why cities are booming. That's why commuters are increasing. That's why traffic is usually at a standstill and that's why huge public transport investment is needed.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

So much for the maiden-aunt-like squeaks from motorists at the idea of investing 10% of transport budget into cycleways and walkways.

i'd love to hear a stat about ireland compared to other countries - how many people live within 1km of a shop selling at least milk, bread, eggs, newspapers, etc.; and compare this with other countries.
as much as we like to talk about getting kids interested in cycling, we have to figure out a way that even if we could foster that interest, that we need to make it easy to continue cycling.

expectationlost

magicbastarder wrote: »

‘Unnecessary deaths’ caused by low spend on cycling infrastructure
UN report says 20% of transport budget should be spent in area but just 1% will be in 2016
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/unnecessary-deaths-caused-by-low-spend-on-cycling-infrastructure-1.2837200

Ireland is grossly underinvesting in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure which helps to save lives and reduce carbon emissions, according to a report from the UN’s Environment Programme.

hmm not sure about this article I've only skimmed and word searched for Ireland but where does the report mention Ireland, is Dick Ahlstrom extrapolating too much re Ireland based on this particular report http://www.unep.org/NewsCentre/default.aspx?DocumentID=27086&ArticleID=36285

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd love to hear a stat about ireland compared to other countries - how many people live within 1km of a shop selling at least milk, bread, eggs, newspapers, etc.; and compare this with other countries.
as much as we like to talk about getting kids interested in cycling, we have to figure out a way that even if we could foster that interest, that we need to make it easy to continue cycling.

Considering that a huge hunk of the population lives in Dublin, probably a huge hunk of the population is within an ass's roar of a shop too.

And since statistically nearly half of all car journeys in Dublin are under 4km, it might be an idea to get the bike out of the shed.

magicbastarder

expectationlost wrote: »

hmm not sure about this article I've only skimmed and word searched for Ireland but where does the report mention Ireland, is Dick Ahlstrom extrapolating too much re Ireland based on this particular report http://www.unep.org/NewsCentre/default.aspx?DocumentID=27086&ArticleID=36285

yeah, it certainly departs explicitly from the passive in this statement:
"The report argues that countries should invest at least 20 per cent of their transport budgets in walking and cycling facilities but finds that Ireland spends less than 1 per cent on these facilities. "

that statement is not based on anything in the report.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

Considering that a huge hunk of the population lives in Dublin, probably a huge hunk of the population is within an ass's roar of a shop too.

the biggest problem i see with people (and i'm focussing on the likes of my parents, mid to late 60s - my father has a perfectly serviceable bike i bought him for his 60th) cycling to the shops is the security issue.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

the biggest problem i see with people (and i'm focussing on the likes of my parents, mid to late 60s - my father has a perfectly serviceable bike i bought him for his 60th) cycling to the shops is the security issue.

You mean bike theft? Yes. Until bike theft is unfashionable, people won't want to cycle. Or perhaps not so much; Amsterdam is lightfingerland, yet everyone cycles because the infrastructure is so good. They have old hoopties no one unstoned would bother to steal for the trip to the shops, and nice bikes for the long ride out on the weekend.

But Dublin Corporation's funding for firms to solve the bike theft issue is a thing to be thanked, and will make a worldwide difference if it works.

shootermacg

Chuchote wrote: »

They have old hoopties no one unstoned would bother to steal for the trip to the shops, and nice bikes for the long ride out on the weekend.

This is the solution really. I have a nice light aluminium road-bike for commuting and a nice old hybrid for the weekend trips to town. I'd be really pissed if my road-bike got nicked but the hybrid has paid for itself many times over at this stage.

I used to drive a car, was on the other side of tubby and regularly drove 500 metres to the shop. I was the type that got really really pissed at any perceived delay. I wasn't happy in general, holding down a 10/12 hour (sometimes 7 day a week) job and having 4 kids, I surmised that a cycle to work would be my only shot at exercise and losing the flab.

After a year of biking to work, I ended up selling the BMW, (battery kept going flat from lack of use). I can now use the wife's car (7 seat family wagon / van) when (very rarely) required. I find I actually prefer being a passenger in the car these days to driving.

Is cycling stressful? Sometimes.. but you're actually working off the stress through exercise at the same time. I can honestly say the exercise and not using the car has had a positive impact on my life. I'm back to being thin and I don't suffer from anxiety or stress at the same level. My wife has told me I seem a lot more relaxed these days.

Do I want to save the planet? Never entered my head. Would I like safe travel for my kids and other kids going to school, 1000 times yes.

It broke my heart to hear about the eleven year old kid who was killed cycling to school in september. The little guy left the house and never returned. I have a ten year who's started cycling to school recently and its tough to watch him heading off each day on the bike, but its really done wonders for his confidence.

Kids don't always do the right thing, god knows, when I was a kid I didn't. We need an infrastructure in place to ensure that when our kids make the odd mistake it isn't fatal. I'm not happy paying charges for water, but I'd happily contribute to that.

Drivers, cyclist or pedestrian, we all have kids and all our kids have bikes.

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

They have old hoopties no one unstoned would bother to steal

maybe some of the bike thieves in ireland are stoned; i've mentioned before, but a friend borrowed an old junker to cycle a mile to the train station in the mornings, and it was stolen on the first day he used it.

shootermacg

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe some of the bike thieves in ireland are stoned; i've mentioned before, but a friend borrowed an old junker to cycle a mile to the train station in the mornings, and it was stolen on the first day he used it.

A junky will probably sell a carbon frame for the same price as the junker, but it isn't going to cause the owner the same amount of pain.

Basically as far as leaving bikes in public places go, just don't be the lowest hanging fruit. If you have a crappy looking bike and a good lock, its a lot less likely to be stolen than a nice looking bike with a crappy lock.

magicbastarder

the problem is that security and portability are usually inverse relations with bike locks.

shootermacg

magicbastarder wrote: »

the problem is that security and portability are usually inverse relations with bike locks.

Very true.
Even though I hate mine:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kryptonite-Evolution-FlexFrame-U-Lock-Orange/dp/B005YPK99I/ref=sr_1_41?ie=UTF8&qid=1477042102&sr=8-41&keywords=black+bike+lock

I'm still happy its there when I need it.

Quite a few people who commute to work and leave their bike in the same spot, just leave their lock there for the next day.

magicbastarder

an aside, there's a special place in hell reserved for cyclists who lock their bikes to bus stops.
it's pretty much asking for it to be knocked over and stood on by people getting on or off the bus.

ThisRegard

shootermacg wrote: »

Would I like safe travel for my kids and other kids going to school, 1000 times yes.

This is the foremost reason why I get involved in these debates. I've been cycling long enough around all sorts of roads so I like to think I can look after myself.

My biggest problem with the clowns you see on the anti-cyclist side (and there's no other way to describe them) is that the attitude will pervade as my kids start to cycle on public roads. It's one thing to be an asshole around adult cyclists, it's a completely different set of stupidity and ignorance to have the same attitude around kids.

Chuchote

Deedsie wrote: »

Ya I'd agree, I am toying with the idea of getting a crappy €100 (non stolen) bike for heading to the shop, going for a swim etc. Of course I'll lock it properly but if it's robbed at least it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'd just be constantly worrying about my main bike.

Yeah, but it's an awful pity to have to do that. For instance, I'd really like to give my old bike to a woman living in direct provision, so she could stretch the legs, stick the babby on the back and go sailing around the roads of Meath. It would make a really big difference to someone's life. But instead, no, I have to keep it as my down-to-the-shops hoopty.

I wonder are the Gardaí doing any studies on where bike theft is rare and where it's common, talking to other forces. I know most police forces don't think it's very important; I think they're wrong, because it is the main crime that gets kids into bad company and into the idea that theft is ok, and sometimes that gets them a record that will hang around their necks for the rest of their lives.

The only place I've heard of where there's very low bike theft is Toronto, but I think this may be because Toronto has a generally low level of crime and high level of kindliness and civilisation.

Seaswimmer

magicbastarder wrote: »

the biggest problem i see with people (and i'm focussing on the likes of my parents, mid to late 60s - my father has a perfectly serviceable bike i bought him for his 60th) cycling to the shops is the security issue.

This is one issue. In our house my wifes main reason for never cycling functionally was the hassle of getting her bike.

Her memories as a teenager were of going to the shed and moving lawnmowers, garden tools and a myriad of other items and then finding a bike with 2 flat tyres.

Now she opens the shed door and the bike is there with working lights, lock, pannier, and ready to go.

I really think if we want our kids and other halves cycling we have to make it easy for them. If you have to struggle to get your bike then its probably easier to take the car or ask for a lift.

Chuchote

Seaswimmer wrote: »

This is one issue. In our house my wifes main reason for never cycling functionally was the hassle of getting her bike.

Her memories as a teenager were of going to the shed and moving lawnmowers, garden tools and a myriad of other items and then finding a bike with 2 flat tyres.

Now she opens the shed door and the bike is there with working lights, lock, pannier, and ready to go.

I really think if we want our kids and other halves cycling we have to make it easy for them. If you have to struggle to get your bike then its probably easier to take the car or ask for a lift.

And making it safe and pleasurable. The National Transport Authority's cycling plan for Dublin would do that; it's three years old, though, and no sign of implementation (https://fe49d9ec8511d2dc0553-f8f415f79bf5d37d632aa2f721fb6d7c.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Proposed_Network_Dublin11.pdf):

shootermacg

Yeah, its always a pain to brush off the cobwebs the first time.
A good thing these days is that bikes are making use of much lighter materials, so aren't the pain they used to be to move / carry around.

The basic gear you need to stay on the road is much cheaper and better designed these days. You buy the bigger, free standing pumps very cheaply (approx 10 to 15 euro when they come around in lidl). Aldi and Lidl do a few cyclist cheap and cheerful special buys a few times a year for the basics (waterproofs gloves, shoe covers, lights).

Another thing is people assume cycling in ireland will be hours of cycling in the rain, its not quite true. Yeah you can get rained on, but nowhere near as much as you would think and for those days either a simple change of clothes or just a waterproof top / bottom and shoe covers will see you as snug as a bug in a rug..

blackwhite

Chuchote wrote: »

Yeah, but it's an awful pity to have to do that. For instance, I'd really like to give my old bike to a woman living in direct provision, so she could stretch the legs, stick the babby on the back and go sailing around the roads of Meath. It would make a really big difference to someone's life. But instead, no, I have to keep it as my down-to-the-shops hoopty.

I wonder are the Gardaí doing any studies on where bike theft is rare and where it's common, talking to other forces. I know most police forces don't think it's very important; I think they're wrong, because it is the main crime that gets kids into bad company and into the idea that theft is ok, and sometimes that gets them a record that will hang around their necks for the rest of their lives.

The only place I've heard of where there's very low bike theft is Toronto, but I think this may be because Toronto has a generally low level of crime and high level of kindliness and civilisation.

Do the Gardai still offer the service where they'll put a serial number on the frame and then store the number in a database with your contact details?
I remember it being advertised when I was in college.

I often wondered if they could do something similar with a microchip somewhere inside the frame (preferably in a common place on the bike), and make it open to bike retailers.
When selling a bike, the retailer would register it on the database with the purchasers details. Have some way that the registered owner can change the details/transfer to a new owner if you wish.
Then, if the guards suspect a bike of being stolen, or recover stolen bikes, it's easy for them to check ownership and reunite the bile with it's owner.

Chuchote

blackwhite wrote: »

Do the Gardai still offer the service where they'll put a serial number on the frame and then store the number in a database with your contact details?
I remember it being advertised when I was in college.

I often wondered if they could do something similar with a microchip somewhere inside the frame (preferably in a common place on the bike), and make it open to bike retailers.
When selling a bike, the retailer would register it on the database with the purchasers details. Have some way that the registered owner can change the details/transfer to a new owner if you wish.
Then, if the guards suspect a bike of being stolen, or recover stolen bikes, it's easy for them to check ownership and reunite the bile with it's owner.

http://bikeregister.ie/? And wasn't there a discussion of a garda in the Bridewell station who was registering bicycles? But really what we need is a good bike tracker, probably using SigFox because that doesn't require a SIM, and probably more miniaturised than the current 3"/7cm devices currently on sale, and certainly a lot cheaper than the €170ish prices now charged, plus subscriptions. The SigFox network is apparently growing, though I can't see a current map of coverage. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057659349&page=2

schemingbohemia

It's included in the NTA GDA Strategy though, so it is committed to albeit on a long-term basis (20 years).

[edit] Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to Chuchote's post a page back on the GDA Cycle Network
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101416141&postcount=270

Zynks

blackwhite wrote: »

Do the Gardai still offer the service where they'll put a serial number on the frame and then store the number in a database with your contact details?
I remember it being advertised when I was in college.

All bikes have a serial number. It is normally under the pedal crank