Logan **Spoilers from post 212**

MilesMorales1

Deisler wrote: »

Superb must order. Is b&w version getting a cinema release here?

No, US only.

IncognitoMan

Box art is beautiful

Bacchus

Only watched this recently. Overall I thoroughly enjoyed it and thought it was the perfect send off for Stewart and Jackman. This was probably the best "Wolverine" of all the X-Men movies to date. Not only was the violence great and it really added to the action but seeing Wolverine fading, struggling and ultimately dying evoked actual sadness. That's rare enough for comic book movies and this was pitch perfect.

It's not perfect though. I didn't particularly enjoy the "evil Wolverine" clone. It felt too much of a rethread over Wolverine Origins and the mutant weapon (Deadpool) used there. There was nothing invested in that duel, it was just something for Wolverine to exchange blows with.

My biggest complaint (and only one really) would be the chase scene in the woods with the kid mutants. In that first scene where we see the commando guys try to catch X-23... they are scared of her and rightly so as she cuts through them. The ease at which X-23 and her friends are hunted down in the end just doesn't sit right. They were trained to be weapons from birth, they have mutant abilities and they all just trip over while running away and get caught. Ok, one or two fought back a bit but were still rounded up easily. Yes, they're just kids but if X-23 is anything to go by they should have dealt with the commandos in the woods with relative ease.

Drumpot

I suppose the difference is that at the start she had to attack to get away. She was cornered and had no choice but by the end of the movie they are nearly at their destination and are literally making a break for the border.

The children didn't know how close the soldiers were so didn't plan a counter offensive and at the end of the day they are children. Even if they are bred as a weapon, they were still children growing up against trained soldiers. If you think about it, the children at Xavier's school are still only learning how to use their powers and that's under supervision, these kids never got any training at all, so I don't think its reasonable to expect them to know how to react to different situations with a specific skill.

It was Wolverine's leadership that galvanised them to properly defend themselves. His sacrifice set them free, I really don't see that as a problem in anyway.

Bacchus

Drumpot wrote: »

I suppose the difference is that at the start she had to attack to get away. She was cornered and had no choice but by the end of the movie they are nearly at their destination and are literally making a break for the border.

The children didn't know how close the soldiers were so didn't plan a counter offensive and at the end of the day they are children. Even if they are bred as a weapon, they were still children growing up against trained soldiers. If you think about it, the children at Xavier's school are still only learning how to use their powers and that's under supervision, these kids never got any training at all, so I don't think its reasonable to expect them to know how to react to different situations with a specific skill.

It was Wolverine's leadership that galvanised them to properly defend themselves. His sacrifice set them free, I really don't see that as a problem in anyway.

To a certain extent I can get on board with that but two points...

- The kids at Xaviers school were not being taught to fight. Only the X-Men were getting that training. The kids were essentially in boarding school.
- The kids in Logan were specifically trained to be weapons and X-23 showed how fearless she was taking on the commandos.

So, when that final scene kicked off, I just thought it was incredibly easy to take down a large group of super-powered kids who were trained to use their powers. Now, maybe's it just a few that were trained - X-23 being one of them - and the rest were tested on. In which case I can understand it a bit better.

Mickeroo

I thought the way the other kids just seemed like normal kids jarred a bit with how X-23 was portrayed.

Bacchus

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought the way the other kids just seemed like normal kids jarred a bit with how X-23 was portrayed.

Pretty much boiled my whole two posts down to a single line

Seanachai

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Ironically, Logan was jammed full of CGI that you didn't notice!

What are you basing that assumption on?

GottaGetGatt

Seanachai wrote: »

What are you basing that assumption on?

The car chase scene at the start. The inside shots of Logan during that scene are cgi. Not to mind the younger version of Logan. The claws, the lads hand. Blood and gore. It wasn't ketchup they were using anyway.

Nervous Wreck

Seanachai wrote: »

What are you basing that assumption on?

The fact that the film is full of CGI that is utterly seamless.

Slydice

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

The car chase scene at the start. The inside shots of Logan during that scene are cgi. Not to mind the younger version of Logan. The claws, the lads hand. Blood and gore. It wasn't ketchup they were using anyway.

lol, givem more detail!

It wasn't even Hugh Jackman driving the care. He's worth too much money. So they CGI'd his head onto the driver

Drumpot

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought the way the other kids just seemed like normal kids jarred a bit with how X-23 was portrayed.

I do see what you mean but I suppose that just didn't bother me. I had t thought about it until it was brought up here. Unless it has been explained elsewhere but I suppose it could be that she has more aggressively instinctive skills that come out when she is on her own but when in a group she fits into the hive mentality and is less animalistic (like wolverine on his own v with x-men).

Seanachai

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

The fact that the film is full of CGI that is utterly seamless.

I never said that I didn't recognise cgi in the film, I was saying that it was used tastefully in comparison to previous movies in the franchise/genre.

Nervous Wreck

Seanachai wrote: »

I never said that I didn't recognise cgi in the film, I was saying that it was used tastefully in comparison to previous movies in the franchise/genre.

Fcuking hell man, that was exactly my point. I was backing up your point about the overuse of CGI by pointing out that Logan is FULL of CGI that you (not you specifically) didn't notice because it was so well used.

PhiloCypher

Bacchus wrote: »

To a certain extent I can get on board with that but two points...

- The kids at Xaviers school were not being taught to fight. Only the X-Men were getting that training. The kids were essentially in boarding school.
- The kids in Logan were specifically trained to be weapons and X-23 showed how fearless she was taking on the commandos.

So, when that final scene kicked off, I just thought it was incredibly easy to take down a large group of super-powered kids who were trained to use their powers. Now, maybe's it just a few that were trained - X-23 being one of them - and the rest were tested on. In which case I can understand it a bit better.

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought the way the other kids just seemed like normal kids jarred a bit with how X-23 was portrayed.

Not sure why you guys are having difficulty with this . They may have been bred to be weapons but they weren't all temperamentally fit to be, X-23 aside . Its pretty much why the program was disbanded in favour of just cloning the temperamentally suitable Wolverine. X-23 being Logans daughter(or of least his genetic stock) is naturally more aggressive. If the rest of her friends had of been more like her they wouldn't have been set to be culled by Pierce.

Agent Coulson

The Noir trailer.

Mickeroo

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Not sure why you guys are having difficulty with this . They may have been bred to be weapons but they weren't all temperamentally fit to be, X-23 aside . Its pretty much why the program was disbanded in favour of just cloning the temperamentally suitable Wolverine. X-23 being Logans daughter(or of least his genetic stock) is naturally more aggressive. If the rest of her friends had of been more like her they wouldn't have been set to be culled by Pierce.

No difficulty with it, it was a minor gripe in a great film.

Bacchus

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Not sure why you guys are having difficulty with this . They may have been bred to be weapons but they weren't all temperamentally fit to be, X-23 aside . Its pretty much why the program was disbanded in favour of just cloning the temperamentally suitable Wolverine. X-23 being Logans daughter(or of least his genetic stock) is naturally more aggressive. If the rest of her friends had of been more like her they wouldn't have been set to be culled by Pierce.

... and I can appreciate that reasoning but while watching it, it just totally took me out of the movie (which I was thoroughly enjoying until the final act) that these powerful children were taken down with such ease, including X-23 who was already shown to be a lethal killer. The whole movie, we're introduced to X-23 who is this mutant weapon that takes on whole commando teams. Then we meet the other children with mutant powers who were raised in the same environment and when a team of commandos arrives, they all just run. That same team would having be sh*ting themselves going after just X-23 but here we see them tackling mutants to the ground and strapping some cuffs on them. Job done. Could they not at least have tried tranquilizing them from a distance (ala X2)? I mean, there's a kid that is shown to have electric powers. How was he tackled and cuffed at all? At least there were one or two that fought back but it just seemed in conflict with what we had seen before with X-23.

As for why the kids were being culled. It was because they could not be controlled. Once X-24 was created they had a mutant they could control so they didn't not need the risk of these powerful mutants growing up and turning against them. X-23 was up for the chop too remember so it had nothing to do with the other kids "being more like her".

Jobs OXO

Bacchus wrote: »

... and I can appreciate that reasoning but while watching it, it just totally took me out of the movie (which I was thoroughly enjoying until the final act) that these powerful children were taken down with such ease, including X-23 who was already shown to be a lethal killer. The whole movie, we're introduced to X-23 who is this mutant weapon that takes on whole commando teams. Then we meet the other children with mutant powers who were raised in the same environment and when a team of commandos arrives, they all just run. That same team would having be sh*ting themselves going after just X-23 but here we see them tackling mutants to the ground and strapping some cuffs on them. Job done. Could they not at least have tried tranquilizing them from a distance (ala X2)? I mean, there's a kid that is shown to have electric powers. How was he tackled and cuffed at all? At least there were one or two that fought back but it just seemed in conflict with what we had seen before with X-23.

As for why the kids were being culled. It was because they could not be controlled. Once X-24 was created they had a mutant they could control so they didn't not need the risk of these powerful mutants growing up and turning against them. X-23 was up for the chop too remember so it had nothing to do with the other kids "being more like her".

Hmm it's does jar a bit. Have you seen the deleted scenes? Theyre up on YouTube. One where one of the kids controls a soldier and has him shoot 2 others and then shoot himself.

Bacchus

Bacchus wrote: »

... and I can appreciate that reasoning but while watching it, it just totally took me out of the movie (which I was thoroughly enjoying until the final act) that these powerful children were taken down with such ease, including X-23 who was already shown to be a lethal killer.

Here's why... They are KIDS, frightened panicy kids with the border in sight.

History is strewn with battles of trained soldiers being destroyed in a rout when fighting could have saved them.
Leaderless panic is deadly and, again, they are KIDS

Bacchus

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Hmm it's does jar a bit. Have you seen the deleted scenes? Theyre up on YouTube. One where one of the kids controls a soldier and has him shoot 2 others and then shoot himself.

That scene with the kid control the other soldier was brilliant. They should have left that in.

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's why... They are KIDS, frightened panicy kids with the border in sight.

History is strewn with battles of trained soldiers being destroyed in a rout when fighting could have saved them.
Leaderless panic is deadly and, again, they are KIDS

As I said, I can appreciate the reasoning but while watching this we quickly went from "single mutant kid" kicking the ass of whole teams of commandos to a large group of these kids (including the aforementioned asskicker) running away, and being literally rugby tackled to the ground without much resistance. It was way too easy for the commandos to round them up in the end.

Mostly I blame the way the commando operation was carried out. Had they simply gone for a tranq gun option, shooting from a distance then I can see the "run away" mentality and it knocks out the kids so there's no mutant powers to contend with. This "hand to hand" stuff though should have been a disaster for the commandos. Putting aside the training the kids have, even just from a reactionary self defense perspective tackling the kids to the ground was just... not fitting with what we learned through X-23. Another thing, why were the commandos capturing them alive? Earlier they wanted them dead.

PhiloCypher

Bacchus wrote: »

... and I can appreciate that reasoning but while watching it, it just totally took me out of the movie (which I was thoroughly enjoying until the final act) that these powerful children were taken down with such ease, including X-23 who was already shown to be a lethal killer. The whole movie, we're introduced to X-23 who is this mutant weapon that takes on whole commando teams. Then we meet the other children with mutant powers who were raised in the same environment and when a team of commandos arrives, they all just run. That same team would having be sh*ting themselves going after just X-23 but here we see them tackling mutants to the ground and strapping some cuffs on them. Job done. Could they not at least have tried tranquilizing them from a distance (ala X2)? I mean, there's a kid that is shown to have electric powers. How was he tackled and cuffed at all? At least there were one or two that fought back but it just seemed in conflict with what we had seen before with X-23.

I'd have preferred them to go the tranq route too but I don't think its unreasononable to believe that seeing as tho these kids were being culled due to a refusal to kill (A kid throws himself off the top of the Transigen building in that video Logan watches rather then be turned into a weapon lets remember) that they thought they could take them down without too much trouble.

As to the bolded part, at no point in that final battle in the forest is x-23 taken down with ease. The nearest she gets to being captured is being surrounded by about a dozen men that she goes on to eviscerate when Logan arrives.

Bacchus wrote: »

As for why the kids were being culled. It was because they could not be controlled. Once X-24 was created they had a mutant they could control so they didn't not need the risk of these powerful mutants growing up and turning against them. X-23 was up for the chop too remember so it had nothing to do with the other kids "being more like her".

Yeh she(x-23) was up for the chop too because while she had the aggression they wanted, they couldn't control her, She'd kill , but only for her own reasons. As for the others the Nurse who worked in the Transigen facility had this to say about them " As the kids got older , they became more difficult, they could not be controlled. The company had turned their bodies into weapons. Tried to teach them to kill . But they did not want to fight"

The scientist behind it all Xander Rice said this " we thought we could raise them without a conscience. But you can't nurture rage, You simply design it from scratch(referring to x-24)"

So its fairly explicit in the film that these children lack that killer instinct, so its no surprise really that they run unless cornered.

Basically I can see why there is a bit of cognitive dissonance for some but the reasons are right there in the movie.

Seanachai

On a lighter note was anybody inspired to go for an auld run in the woods in a white vest?

GottaGetGatt

Good Watch

AllForIt

Seanachai wrote: »

On a lighter note was anybody inspired to go for an auld run in the woods in a white vest?

Erm....I'd prefer to travel at warp speed if I had an opportunity.

MilesMorales1

My cool steelbook arrived



Noir version is cool.

molloyjh

Mickeroo wrote: »

No difficulty with it, it was a minor gripe in a great film.

Bacchus wrote: »

... and I can appreciate that reasoning but while watching it, it just totally took me out of the movie (which I was thoroughly enjoying until the final act) that these powerful children were taken down with such ease, including X-23 who was already shown to be a lethal killer. The whole movie, we're introduced to X-23 who is this mutant weapon that takes on whole commando teams. Then we meet the other children with mutant powers who were raised in the same environment and when a team of commandos arrives, they all just run. That same team would having be sh*ting themselves going after just X-23 but here we see them tackling mutants to the ground and strapping some cuffs on them. Job done. Could they not at least have tried tranquilizing them from a distance (ala X2)? I mean, there's a kid that is shown to have electric powers. How was he tackled and cuffed at all? At least there were one or two that fought back but it just seemed in conflict with what we had seen before with X-23.

As for why the kids were being culled. It was because they could not be controlled. Once X-24 was created they had a mutant they could control so they didn't not need the risk of these powerful mutants growing up and turning against them. X-23 was up for the chop too remember so it had nothing to do with the other kids "being more like her".

Did they not state pretty clearly in the film that most of the kids didn't want to fight? That they were just kids? Remember the scene with one of the kids committing suicide? Then the ones that did want to fight they couldn't control.

houlihand

The Noir version is awesome too!

Wedwood

Just watched it on Blu Ray, best superhero movie for me since Superman the Movie. I disliked the other X Men movies but this was something else.

Liam McPoyle

Watched this tonight.

I don't like superhero movies, I'd go so far as saying I hate them.

But I really enjoyed this.

Didn't drag at all which considering it's near 2.5 hour run time is some feat.

If more were made like this then I'd certainly pay to see them.

Except Deadpool.

Deadpool can suck my ass.

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

Watched this tonight.

I don't like superhero movies, I'd go so far as saying I hate them.

But I really enjoyed this.

Didn't drag at all which considering it's near 2.5 hour run time is some feat.

If more were made like this then I'd certainly pay to see them.

Except Deadpool.

Deadpool can suck my ass.

Deadpool probably would and all

houlihand

houlihand wrote: »

The Noir version is awesome too!

Is the noir version just the same movie, but done in black and white?

How does it translate across? I know black and white movies had to be filmed in a certain way with regards to lighting and cameras. My assumption is that Logan wasn't, so was retroactively made black and white. Is there a noticeable difference in quality?

Sad Professor

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the noir version just the same movie, but done in black and white?

How does it translate across? I know black and white movies had to be filmed in a certain way with regards to lighting and cameras. My assumption is that Logan wasn't, so was retroactively made black and white. Is there a noticeable difference in quality?

Re-grading in black and white can produce good results. See Fury Road "black and chrome" edition which I thought looked fantastic. But they put a lot of work into that. Adjusting the contrast, blacks, etc. Logan "noir" seemed like a half-arsed grayscale conversion to me.

Sad Professor

Sad Professor wrote: »

Re-grading in black and white can produce good results. See Fury Road "black and chrome" edition which I thought looked fantastic. But they put a lot of work into that. Adjusting the contrast, blacks, etc. Logan "noir" seemed like a half-arsed grayscale conversion to me.

That's what I kind of thought. It's like when they retroactively make movies into 3D. And they just look awful.

Bowlardo

Some film. Great ending for a great character.saw it in the cinema and loved it bit had forgoytten how good it was.
Needed something to renew my faith in american cinema after the star wars debacle.

fryup

just watched it tonight on blu ray brilliant action sci-fi movie but my word its violent...esp for a 15 cert...was it really necessary to have so much red ketchup on display??

fryup

fryup wrote: »

just watched it tonight on blu ray brilliant action sci-fi movie but my word its violent...esp for a 15 cert...was it really necessary to have so much red ketchup on display??

Man with razor sharp claws slices arm... hmmm does it need to bleed after that?

Tazzimus

fryup wrote: »

just watched it tonight on blu ray brilliant action sci-fi movie but my word its violent...esp for a 15 cert...was it really necessary to have so much red ketchup on display??

Considering how neutered he's been in the X-Men movies, absolutely.