They suffered on the cross but rose again.. Lenny, Rob and Alek's 16/17 cross thread

RobFowl

Ennis only a 2 hour drive from the big smoke too

Big Mig

Hope they have a few quid for the women this time. Nothing last week and a plastic trophy the week before!!

nak

Big Mig wrote: »

Hope they have a few quid for the women this time. Nothing last week and a plastic trophy the week before!!

Always the case for the women's races. Money for the league standings. Same for mountain bike races except the trophies are sometimes glass.

Big Mig

Didn't know that was how it normally works. They pay their entry fee and mostly race for nothing. That's a pity.

crosswords

in defence of race organisers it's really really expensive to host and run CX races properly.

people (rightfully) expect total course marking, catering, barriers, and toilets as a minimum.

I am surprised any organiser can afford to pay out cash prizes at all regardless of gender.

does a fiver in an envelope really matter to people?

Beasty

crosswords wrote: »

in defence of race organisers it's really really expensive to host and run CX races properly.

Absolutely. Even then the amount of effort that goes in from volunteers is in my experience way beyond what anyone could expect. It's very different economics to running road races (and a lot of open races still struggle to make ends meet)

crosswords

Perhaps its time to think about consolidating the races in the Republic, like they do up North?

10 Races.
10 weeks.
10 Clubs (running one each).
All points go into a 10 round league table.
No Cash prizes.
Whopping number of entries for each race.
Loads of revenue per race.
The standard of each event is equally excellent and equally well supported.

If it can be done up North, no reason why it cant be done down here?

Events are expensive to run and unless you have generous supporters (Beasty, Robfowl, take a bow) its difficult to balance the books.

lukegjpotter

crosswords wrote: »

people (rightfully) expect total course marking, catering, barriers, and toilets as a minimum.

The cost of the course marking sticks, €0.50-€2 each can add up really quick.
Chip Timing too, plus the people to run the chip timing, which is €200-€400.
Large water tanks for the muddy races.

crosswords

the event kit is shared up in ulster

it's driven to each race and set up by the host club.

imagine that.

25sean

Ulster have the model alright...

On that, DCCX have 200 posts anyone organising a CX race is welcome to borrow.. have to supply your own mud though.....

nak

Big Mig wrote: »

Didn't know that was how it normally works. They pay their entry fee and mostly race for nothing. That's a pity.

Never bothered me, it's an amateur race. The prizes for the overall league were great the last time I got one. Don't forget there's also a leaders jersey.

Big Mig

It might not bother you but it's bothering some of the girls. There aren't very many of them racing and if it's ever going to grow they need to be looked after a bit better and feel appreciated, not just a side show to the elite men.
No such thing as an amateur any more. Racing is open these days.

lukegjpotter

25sean wrote: »

Ulster have the model alright...

Ulster do have the advantage that it's a nicely sized province.

Devil's advocate, worse case scenario here, but Imagine driving the course equipment from Navan to Fota/Mullingar, and onto Ennis/Kilternan/Sligo. Perhaps the off-road commission could allow for each province to have a centralised CX stock.

Anyone know how XC and Enduro MTB races handle this?

#LogisticsLuke

detones

Is there any other race on the weekend of 23rd Oct. Apart from the kinning and ccx?

Peterx

detones wrote: »

Is there any other race on the weekend of 23rd Oct. Apart from the kinning and ccx?

To the UK with you?

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events?keywords=&view=off&distance=&postcode=&fromdate=23%2F10%2F2016&todate=23%2F10%2F2017&day_of_week%5B%5D=1&day_of_week%5B%5D=2&day_of_week%5B%5D=3&day_of_week%5B%5D=4&day_of_week%5B%5D=5&day_of_week%5B%5D=6&day_of_week%5B%5D=7&race_duration_min=&race_duration_max=&resultsperpage=30&series_only=0&online_entry_only=0&zuv_bc_event_filter_id%5B%5D=4

detones

Peterx wrote: »

To the UK with you?

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events?keywords=&view=off&distance=&postcode=&fromdate=23%2F10%2F2016&todate=23%2F10%2F2017&day_of_week%5B%5D=1&day_of_week%5B%5D=2&day_of_week%5B%5D=3&day_of_week%5B%5D=4&day_of_week%5B%5D=5&day_of_week%5B%5D=6&day_of_week%5B%5D=7&race_duration_min=&race_duration_max=&resultsperpage=30&series_only=0&online_entry_only=0&zuv_bc_event_filter_id%5B%5D=4

And i thought cx was popular here!! Hoping for something a little cloer to home. Kinning B Race sold out. Ccx is over 3 hours away.

nak

Big Mig wrote: »

It might not bother you but it's bothering some of the girls. There aren't very many of them racing and if it's ever going to grow they need to be looked after a bit better and feel appreciated, not just a side show to the elite men.
No such thing as an amateur any more. Racing is open these days.

It has grown; my first race I was the only woman, the next year maybe 6, then 10+ to last year where we had up to 30 and got our own race (which I think was generous given that we didn't really have the numbers on occasion to justify it). It didn't bother any of us before when we were racing amongst the B men, so we were so excited to get our own race nothing else really mattered. Don't forget, none of us get paid to help out at the events and adding extra races is more work and expense for the organisers.

I did an NPS race this year, I won my category and I got a trophy. I was happy with that, didn't see any of the other category winners get anything more than a series jersey. None of the off-road riders are used to getting cash prizes.

Maybe more people should volunteer to help run races and skills/intro days for women if they want to continue to grow the sport. I tried a couple of years ago, but it was virtually impossible to get a women's group together as we all have different schedules.

Once numbers increase, the women's race should be after the B race. If the prizes or lack of bother people that much they should speak to the race organisers. The last time I checked there were no professional cross racers lining up beside me on the start line, so it is amateur racing. If not getting what you consider to be a decent enough prize puts you off racing, what happens when the day comes comes that you are not in the prizes anymore? I race to have fun, not for the prizes. I think fun is the part a lot of people forget when it comes to racing.

nevskin

let us know where you can get timing for that price!!

Ennis CX timing cost is €450- discounted due to involvement in Munster CX league...

Also costs include ambulance, CI costs, venue hire, tape etc... break even for us is approx 75 riders at €20..

Saying that we are doing it to grow the sport, not in it to make money!

P.S we really hope to run a separate Ladies Race this Sunday, 2 mins behind A race & for prizes...

Peterx

Putting a race on is the important thing and I would much prefer to have a race to go to without timing as opposed to no race as the organisers were doing their feasibility sums on the basis of including the timing cost as an essential.

As you say : costs include ambulance, CI costs, venue hire, tape Timing is great but it very much is an add-on, as are tea, cake, showers, announcer and so on. I like them all, especially the timing but can manage without.

nak

Peterx wrote: »

Putting a race on is the important thing and I would much prefer to have a race to go to without timing as opposed to no race as the organisers were doing their feasibility sums on the basis of including the timing cost as an essential.

As you say : costs include ambulance, CI costs, venue hire, tape Timing is great but it very much is an add-on, as are tea, cake, showers, announcer and so on. I like them all, especially the timing but can manage without.

It's really difficult to do manual timing for a race with 100 people, plus you need enough volunteers to be able to do it. Tried it before and it was chaos - especially with all the different categories in the men's races.

Peterx

nak wrote: »

It's really difficult to do manual timing for a race with 100 people, plus you need enough volunteers to be able to do it. Tried it before and it was chaos - especially with all the different categories in the men's races.

I agree.
My point was there would be no timing if budget didn't allow.
Just the results, funnel the finishers into a finish chute after the finish line and count their place and overall time.

(I love the timing and the messing on excel afterwards with the analysis by the way)

nevskin

Valid point on budget V necessity - however all the clubs involved in Munster CX aspire to reach a certain standard- timing is part of that. We ran without timing last year- ballache!

Emphasis for us is to grow the sport in the region- we've thrown a lot at promo for our race, local press & radio, lots & lots of facebooking plus the association with the league.. lots of time involved..

We feel we have a good course with some ' interesting' features... hope to see some of you at it..

RobFowl

I think we are getting too caught up in cash prizes, personally would prefer to get a well run event and money spent on timing, facilities etc (that said I rarely darken the podium area.....)

Equal prizes would be desirable and the mens esp the B events should IMO subsidise the underage and ladies events

Cash prizes for the B events should not be given although in the A race I would support them.

lukegjpotter

RobFowl wrote: »

Equal prizes would be desirable and the mens esp the B events should IMO subsidise the underage and ladies events

Cash prizes for the B events should not be given although in the A race I would support them.

On CX Hairs Radio Podcast, they often have US event promoters on. They do say that the lower level races do subsidise the Pro's prise money.

RobFowl

lukegjpotter wrote: »

On CX Hairs Radio Podcast, they often have US event promoters on. They do say that the lower level races do subsidise the Pro's prise money.

Thats what us mid pack fodder is for

ht9zni1gs28crp

I was tagged to read this online, very apt!

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/10/11-ways-to-annoy-an-event-organiser/

nak

Melany Ambitious Slump wrote: »

I was tagged to read this online, very apt!

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/10/11-ways-to-annoy-an-event-organiser/

Thanks, that's brilliant!

Alek

Tomorrow's FIXX race looks like going to be fun, especially for the A race:

robyntmorton

Where in Kilternan is the race, Alek? I'm in Shankill so it's not far for me to go and spectate.

daragh_

robyntmorton wrote: »

Where in Kilternan is the race, Alek? I'm in Shankill so it's not far for me to go and spectate.

Right here.