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Seniority query

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  • 06-10-2016 7:55pm
    #1
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭


    I started in my current primary school 4 years ago (sept 2013) as permanent from the main panel. Two other teachers were in the school at the time- one had been temporary for 3 years- made perm ant in sept 2014 and the other was doing a maternity cover made permanent in sept 2015. Am I correct in thinking I am to be considered more senior than these two teachers despite the fact that they were working in the school before me in temp and mat cover positions?
    I assumed I was but recently noticed a revised list of staff this sept and my name is placed below these two girls and all the other staff are in the correct order of seniority. I have tried to locate a relevant circular but I've only found circular letter 0015/2016 which does in a way confirm that I am more senior but I'd like opinion on this as its still a little grey and not as black and white as it should be . I think the principal will ask me for this if I approach her so would like some advice- many thanks.


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    #2
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    Sept 2013 was 3 years ago.
    This is your 4th year in that school, yes?

    In my experience, seniority in a school is based on the number of years you have served in that school.

    I am in my 11th year teaching now, 5th year in this school and I am below teachers who have been teaching 6 years but this is their 7th year in this school.


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    #3
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    Sept 2013 was 3 years ago.
    This is your 4th year in that school, yes?

    In my experience, seniority in a school is based on the number of years you have served in that school.

    I am in my 11th year teaching now, 5th year in this school and I am below teachers who have been teaching 6 years but this is their 7th year in this school.
    Thanks. It's just I was always of the opinion it was decided by permanency- in primary schools. I wonder how I can find out for sure?


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    #4
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    Sept 2013 was 3 years ago.
    This is your 4th year in that school, yes?

    In my experience, seniority in a school is based on the number of years you have served in that school.

    I am in my 11th year teaching now, 5th year in this school and I am below teachers who have been teaching 6 years but this is their 7th year in this school.
    Thanks. It's just I was always of the opinion it was decided by permanency- in primary schools. I wonder how I can find out for sure?


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    #5
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,054 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Seniority is decided by permanent status. The OP is the most senior of the three teachers irrespective of the amount of time spent in the school as temporary members of staff.


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    #6
    Lady_North1
    Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Lady_North1


    Seniority is based on the number of years on the school, in a permanent position, you currently work in. Someone teaching 20 years could come to your school but you'd still be more senior to them as you were made permanent before them. Your seniority counts from the day you're made permanent in that school.
    If the dates you give are correct and you were made permanent before the others then you should be more senior. I just wonder how someone covering a maternity leave could have been in the school before you, yet made permanent two years after you? Are you absolutely sure they weren't permanent before that. Would be worth getting onto your union to confirm, but check their dates too...


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    #7
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Seniority is decided by permanent status. The OP is the most senior of the three teachers irrespective of the amount of time spent in the school as temporary members of staff.

    Untrue


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    #8
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,054 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    Untrue
    The OP has asked about seniority at primary level. I have clearly stated the situation at primary level. If the OP has any doubt they should ring the INTO head office on Monday where they will confirm what I have said. It is confusing the issue when people state as fact misinformation.


    http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0015_2016.pdf


    3.3 Service given previously in the same school as a substitute or fixed term (qualified or unqualified) teacher does not count towards seniority


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    #9
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    Lady_North1 wrote: »
    Seniority is based on the number of years on the school, in a permanent position, you currently work in. Someone teaching 20 years could come to your school but you'd still be more senior to them as you were made permanent before them. Your seniority counts from the day you're made permanent in that school.
    If the dates you give are correct and you were made permanent before the others then you should be more senior. I just wonder how someone covering a maternity leave could have been in the school before you, yet made permanent two years after you? Are you absolutely sure they weren't permanent before that. Would be worth getting onto your union to confirm, but check their dates too...

    Thanks to all the posters for the replies and info.
    I came off the main panel. The girl who was made permanent was had been covering a maternity leave for somebody else in the school that year. She then remained on the following year in a temporary capacity after the teacher on maternity leave came back. A job became available in Sept 2015 which she got.
    Hence she's in the school longer than me but I think I may be more senior.
    My principal has her wires crossed so.


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    #10
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    The OP has asked about seniority at primary level. I have clearly stated the situation at primary level. If the OP has any doubt they should ring the INTO head office on Monday where they will confirm what I have said. It is confusing the issue when people state as fact misinformation.


    http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0015_2016.pdf


    3.3 Service given previously in the same school as a substitute or fixed term (qualified or unqualified) teacher does not count towards seniority

    Thanks for your input- if you're quoting from Circular 015/2016 I saw this but was still not 100% on the situation. Unfortunately there are some issues concerning nepotism in the school. With the possibility of some posts of responsibilities being reinstated this does affect me. So, if nothing else I'd like the list of staff amended to show seniority, therefore no bias. I will approach the principal on Monday and ask her if the list represents seniority. If she says it does I will say its incorrect as per circular 015/2016 and please amend it. If she says its an informal list, which wont make sense because all the other names are based on seniority I will say it may be interpreted as biased as all the other names are listed in order of seniority. I'm quite upset about the issue but I'm glad to have some advice and opinion now. Will update on how I get on on Monday.


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    #11
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Maybe don't go it alone just yet if you have time . Get some advice from the union before you reveal your 'trump card'. Photocopy the list in the staff room too!


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    #12
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Maybe don't go it alone just yet if you have time . Get some advice from the union before you reveal your 'trump card'. Photocopy the list in the staff room too!

    Your response confuses me.
    I have contacted the into- they also referred to said circular. I feel I have no option but to deal with the situation now on Monday as I can't let it go- I'm confused about what 'trump card' you refer to? Which list in the staffroom?? Don't think we have any!


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    #13
    koriko
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭koriko


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Maybe don't go it alone just yet if you have time . Get some advice from the union before you reveal your 'trump card'. Photocopy the list in the staff room too!

    Your response confuses me.
    I have contacted the into- they also referred to said circular. I feel I have no option but to deal with the situation now on Monday as I can't let it go- I'm confused about what 'trump card' you refer to? Which list in the staffroom?? Don't think we have any!


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    #14
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    koriko wrote: »
    Your response confuses me.
    I have contacted the into- they also referred to said circular. I feel I have no option but to deal with the situation now on Monday as I can't let it go- I'm confused about what 'trump card' you refer to? Which list in the staffroom?? Don't think we have any!

    Ya sorry, I know some staffrooms have (had!) a seniority list of the staff on the noticeboard. I assumed you got the seniority info from that.
    I didn't realise you had gone to the union already so had gotten all the info you needed.
    Good luck with it anyway.


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