Leinster vs Munster Match Day Thread, 08th Oct 2016, Aviva Stadium, SS1 & TG4

irishbucsfan

Maybe Leinster got one or two decisions. Very marginal if anything. I don't think there was anything wrong with any of the tries or the non-try decisons. I thought Murray very cynically played the ball into touch intentionally early on after Nacewas break and the ref never even looked at it. But that's the nature of the game. Overall the ref was good and generally the game moved very well.

Some great performances from Leinster. Henshaw changes our midfield completely. Bring on Europe.

budhabob

Adbrowne wrote: »

to be fair he is right. They got lovely possession about 10 yards up the pitch. They were piss poor boxkicks.

They kicks themselves and the chase.

Clegg

Big fan of Earls but jaysus did Ringrose show him up as a hack today at 13.

Wing only please.

NiallBoo

Don't think this will go down well but...

The replay for the second nacewa try shows that he's still well behind the thrower when he catches it - showing that the ball had enough momentum when thrown to carry it forward that amount in the air.

Good try, if a bit risky - really nacewa should have held his depth a bit better.

Anatidaephobia

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe Leinster got one or two decisions. Very marginal if anything. I don't think there was anything wrong with any of the tries or the non-try decisons. I thought Murray very cynically played the ball into touch intentionally early on after Nacewas break and the ref never even looked at it. But that's the nature of the game. Overall the ref was good and generally the game moved very well.

Some great performances from Leinster. Henshaw changes our midfield completely. Bring on Europe.

I thought Murray just knocked the ball on while trying to catch it. It doesn't matter anyway, because Nacewa was in touch.

Teferi

At a trade show for work so didn't see it but absolutely delighted with that result.

Adbrowne

did they announce the attendance

AlfaZen

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Maybe Leinster got one or two decisions. Very marginal if anything. I don't think there was anything wrong with any of the tries or the non-try decisons. I thought Murray very cynically played the ball into touch intentionally early on after Nacewas break and the ref never even looked at it. But that's the nature of the game. Overall the ref was good and generally the game moved very well.

Some great performances from Leinster. Henshaw changes our midfield completely. Bring on Europe.

No doubt Leinster deserved the win but to say the Ref had a good game....
The Murray incident you mention - Isa was out of play when he released the ball before Murray even touched it. It should have been Munster ball. But it ended up with 3 points for Sexton.
The forward pass for Isa's second try was not even marginal.
Double movement call could have gone Munsters way and we have seen them given elsewhere.
Sweetnams grounding again could have gone either way but by the letter of the law all that is required is downward pressure.
There were turnovers Muster were pinged for, POM in first half and CJ in second that were totally legal.
Good game alright.

AlfaZen

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

I thought Murray just knocked the ball on while trying to catch it. It doesn't matter anyway, because Nacewa was in touch.

It does matter because Leinster got the line out and ended up scoring from it.

AlfaZen

NiallBoo wrote: »

Don't think this will go down well but...

The replay for the second nacewa try shows that he's still well behind the thrower when he catches it - showing that the ball had enough momentum when thrown to carry it forward that amount in the air.

Good try, if a bit risky - really nacewa should have held his depth a bit better.

What does that matter??

Just look at the lines on the pitch. It went 3 or 4 meters forward after it left Sexton's hands.

leakyboots

Munster perspective:

15 - Zebo - outplayed Rob comfortably I thought (Sky creaming themselves when Rob catches a ball under no pressue at all) and saved our skin on a number of occasions, distributed the ball well. Bad attempt at offload from the ground in the first half that he knocked on.
14 - Sweetnam - bad mistake for the try, showed his inexperience, but had a fine game apart from that
13 - Earls - poor outing, bounced off tackles when shooting out of the line. Did get one of the only turnovers. I'd have had Taute at 13 and him where ROM was
12 - Scannell - very good first half where he was the best of the midfield for both teams. Faded in the second. Threw a shocker to Taute when he came on.
11 - ROM - woeful. 28 in May and I'd happily see him not play for us again except against Zebre/Treviso.
10 - Tyler - couple of nice touch finders and half breaks. Sexton outplayed him. Coming along nicely though. Did he go off injured?
9 - Murray - picked a bad match to have a poor one, was in great form coming into it. Boxkicking was poorly executed and there were times he didn't need to.

8 - CJ - best Munster player on the day, carried and made tackles all day.
7 - TOD - Schmidder's won't have been impressed with his performance at all, wasn't fully fit coming into it and it showed
6 - POM - looked out on his feet at half time
5 - Holland - didn't impose himself, thought he should have been more in the ref's ear about the dodgy Leinster try
4 - D Ryan - similar to Holland
3 - J Ryan - scrums were even enough for most of the game but Leinster got the upper hand when he went off
2 - Scannell - I commented to herself that our lineout was 100% just before he overthrew and then Nacewa got in
1 - Killer - big ball carrying loss for us when he went off, was doing well up until then.

Subs - Taute did well, JOD too. Keats looked like he was trying to shake up the backline.

Ref had an absolute shocker - Nacewa was in touch for the first try but Leinster got the lineout? Knock on at the base after Ringrose's break (I'll have to see it again but on the only viewing I saw it looked like it) before a forward pass to Nacewa for the second. Stander and I think Duncan Casey had two legitimate turnovers taken off them. Seemed like he wanted the TMO to make the call every time he went upstairs. He didn't do Leinster too many favours either it has to be said. Maybe I need to see the match again and watch it with fresh eyes but I thought he was atrocious.

So many mistakes... little knockons, Zebo doing an offload from the ground when there's no need, ball ball retention/protection, backline never got going at all (I thought we were past the one-out pops and running into the opposition), put ourselves under pressure like trying to run from our own line. The only thing is a lot of these are basic mistakes, sort those out and the improvement will be big. The maul was superb and we had Leinster marching backwards. Scrums were even enough, maybe Leinster 60-40.

Reading James Cronin might be in trouble for making contact with Leinster sub's head with his boot? Anyone know anything about that?

Leinster were the better team, thought we were worth a losing bonus point. Lot of work to be done for next weekend.

A-Train

Happy enough with that win.

Cookiemunster

https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/784772818844155904

Cronin looking at a ban for this.

thebaz

MattD wrote: »

After there being a bit of hubbub about Leinster's scrumhalves without Reddan this season, I couldn't be happier with the 2 we've got at the minute. JGP looks like a right wiley bastard to play against.

Parks looks much more a threat to me than McGrath, McGrath pass really is not up to the highest standard for me. Isa, Sexton , Robbie looked class - loved the way Ringrose overcame his early mishap, and showed his class - Kearney really looks past it (was a truly great player , but time seams to be catching up

Clegg

James Cronin (17) spotted on camera rucking on the face of a Leinster player. Could be accidental but might get in trouble for it all the same.

https://vine.co/v/5gDO5WJTvOi

AlfaZen

Cookiemunster wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/784772818844155904

Cronin looking at a ban for this.

Doesn't look good. A couple of weeks probably.

Buer

AlfaZen wrote:

Doesn't look good. A couple of weeks probably.

He'd gladly take a couple of weeks for that.

leakyboots

That's a ban alright. Hope Killer's injury isn't bad, otherwise it's John Ryan to 1, Archer to 3 and Scott on the bench in Europe...

Felix Jones is God

Foot in face, buy Cronin def had no idea his head was there, want even looking in his direction

NiallBoo

AlfaZen wrote: »

What does that matter??

Just look at the lines on the pitch. It went 3 or 4 meters forward after it left Sexton's hands.

Because that's the law. .The ball is allowed to carry forward because of the throwers momentum and always has...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Adbrowne

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Foot in face, buy Cronin def had no idea his head was there, want even looking in his direction

he runs in and is looking down. he has no excuse for connecting with the head of a player

Felix Jones is God

Adbrowne wrote: »

he runs in and is looking down. he has no excuse for connecting with the head of a player

He runs by him, joins the maul and isn't looking anywhere near his head.....he's not psychic , if we're going to ban players for every accidental shoeing I suggest you watch the league final at 5 as it may be more to your taste

Clegg

Healy is really coming back into form when we need him to. Had another good game. Now playing how we hoped he would at the world cup.

Cookiemunster

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

He runs by him, joins the maul and isn't looking anywhere near his head.....he's not psychic , if we're going to ban players for every accidental shoeing I suggest you watch the league final at 5 as it may be more to your taste

It's careless use of the boot on a players head. It doesn't matter if it was intentional, if picked up it would have been a red card so a ban is coming.

Clegg

Franno may need to revisit his last article. Leinster's backrow didn't seem too perturbed by Munster's "best backrow in Europe". Murphy gets a lot of underserved stick. Thought he was great today. We'll be even better with the return of SoB and VdF coming back in. Leinster's depth thete is disgustingly good.

Felix Jones is God

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's careless use of the boot on a players head. It doesn't matter if it was intentional, if picked up it would have been a red card so a ban is coming.

Wouldn't have even been a yellow, nothing to see here, end of.

AlfaZen

NiallBoo wrote: »

Because that's the law. .The ball is allowed to carry forward because of the throwers momentum and always has...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

But it wasn't forward momentum, it was just a forward pass.

Adbrowne

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

nothing to see here, end of.

bit like RKs pass to Isa

billymitchell

Cookiemunster wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/784772818844155904

Cronin looking at a ban for this.

Saw that real time, looked bad then, looks worse now

super_furry

That looks very bad. Even appears as if he looks down at him first.

irishbucsfan

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Wouldn't have even been a yellow, nothing to see here, end of.

Is this some attempt at a jedi mind trick?!

yosser hughes

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Wouldn't have even been a yellow, nothing to see here, end of.

Well if you really think that, you have lost perspective completely.
He will and should get a ban.

Felix Jones is God

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is this some attempt at a jedi mind trick?!

Munster Jedi

"This is not the pashun you are looking for"

NiallBoo

AlfaZen wrote: »

But it wasn't forward momentum, it was just a forward pass.

How so?

It was thrown by a player running forward so it will have forward momentum. The question is if it has enough to account for ball's movement forward in the air?

Looking at the replay - you can see that the thrower(sexton?) Is still clearly ahead of nacewa when the ball is caught, meaning that it did have enough, and actually went backwards in relative terms by about a half metre.

Teferi

Cookiemunster wrote: »

https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/784772818844155904

Cronin looking at a ban for this.

Another case of a dirty Leinster player attacking a Munster players foot with his head, I reckon.

leakyboots

Clegg wrote: »

Franno may need to revisit his last article. Leinster's backrow didn't seem too perturbed by Munster's "best backrow in Europe". Murphy gets a lot of underserved stick. Thought he was great today. We'll be even better with the return of SoB and VdF coming back in. Leinster's depth thete is disgustingly good.

Murphy made 2 metres off 4 runs and 5 tackles, Heaslip made 4 metres off 9 carries and 12 tackles missing two. CJ made 54 metres off 21 carries making 8 tackles and missing 1.

leakyboots

Anyone see the try the TMO gave in the NZ/Boks game?!

NiallBoo

leakyboots wrote: »

Murphy made 2 metres off 4 runs and 5 tackles, Heaslip made 4 metres off 9 carries and 12 tackles missing two. CJ made 54 metres off 21 carries making 8 tackles and missing 1.

Doesn't that just mean that muster are overly reliant on Stander?

Felix Jones is God

leakyboots wrote: »

Murphy made 2 metres off 4 runs and 5 tackles, Heaslip made 4 metres off 9 carries and 12 tackles missing two. CJ made 54 metres off 21 carries making 8 tackles and missing 1.

CJ was wonderful, he did a huge amount of work in the first half alone.
Ryan, Kleyn, POM, TOD, CJ.... you can a win on that quintet alone IMO ....now just to get them all fit and firing

irishbucsfan

The only thing Cronin has going for him is the fact he's playing in a Pro 12 game between twork Irish sides, meaning citings are a rarity.

Bridge93

leakyboots wrote: »

Murphy made 2 metres off 4 runs and 5 tackles, Heaslip made 4 metres off 9 carries and 12 tackles missing two. CJ made 54 metres off 21 carries making 8 tackles and missing 1.

While not taking away from a great performance, it must be said that CJ was in the backfield for some of Leinster kicks. Will distort the carry metres a fair bit

budhabob

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

CJ was wonderful, he did a huge amount of work in the first half alone.
Ryan, Kleyn, POM, TOD, CJ.... you can a win on that quintet alone IMO ....now just to get them all fit and firing

I envy your positivity after that performance. Fair play.

That bit on cronins play is one of the main reasons im happy with killer starting

leakyboots

NiallBoo wrote: »

Doesn't that just mean that muster are overly reliant on Stander?

No, why? Should we use him less if he's that effective? Bizarre comment. Killer went off injured, he'd be a major carrier for us.

I thought they were evenly matched but CJ was clearly head and shoulders above anyone else (took 3 Lineouts too). TOD made 21 m (for 7 carries though), 12 tackles, 1 missed, 1 defender beaten. POM went off at half time as he clearly wasn't fit, made a few tackles and took 4 lineouts. I don't think TOD was fully fit either to be honest. Game wasn't lost for us in the backrow.

Just highlighting the contention that Leinster were on top in the backrow with their 'disgustingly good' backrow

leakyboots

Bridge93 wrote: »

While not taking away from a great performance, it must be said that CJ was in the backfield for some of Leinster kicks. Will distort the carry metres a fair bit

Does that come into it? Is it not based off the gainline? Either way he had a great performance. Stats aren't everything anyway. I thought Jordi played pretty well even though his stats aren't great

Adbrowne

leakyboots wrote: »

Does that come into it? Is it not based off the gainline? Either way he had a great performance. Stats aren't everything anyway. I thought Jordi played pretty well even though his stats aren't great

no the metres made are in total. Who else as a genuine ball carrier do Munster have in the forwards. Not too many names stand out tbh.

yosser hughes

leakyboots wrote: »

No, why? Should we use him less if he's that effective? Bizarre comment. Killer went off injured, he'd be a major carrier for us.

I thought they were evenly matched but CJ was clearly head and shoulders above anyone else (took 3 Lineouts too). TOD made 21 m (for 7 carries though), 12 tackles, 1 missed, 1 defender beaten. POM went off at half time as he clearly wasn't fit, made a few tackles and took 4 lineouts. I don't think TOD was fully fit either to be honest. Game wasn't lost for us in the backrow.

Just highlighting the contention that Leinster were on top in the backrow with their 'disgustingly good' backrow

Munster did a lot of running sideways. Leinster seemed happy to let them have the ball. Those stats can be pretty meaningless at times.

redmca2

Can anyone explain the logic of Leinster after a period of sustained defending get possession and send up box kicks which at best are 50/50?

How brave and positive is Connact's style in a similar situation, not afraid to retain possession.

Felix Jones is God

Adbrowne wrote: »

no the metres made are in total. Who else as a genuine ball carrier do Munster have in the forwards. Not too many names stand out tbh.

TOD, it's probably the strongest part of his game .....funny how people forget the obvious when focusing on the negative

leakyboots

Adbrowne wrote: »

no the metres made are in total. Who else as a genuine ball carrier do Munster have in the forwards. Not too many names stand out tbh.

CJ, Killer/Cronin, TOD (any bit of space and he's away, very rangy runner), POM. John Ryan and Archer do tight yards, D Ryan less so these days - he's not the same since the injury. Kleyn would have been great today, can see him being a big enforcer for us. Billy Holland is there to tackle all day (11/0, joint highest, same as TOD 11/1). Niall Scannell needs to up his game with regard to carrying, he's good in the scrum and the lineout is better this season (he crucially overthrew though for one of Leinster's scores.. gah).

NiallBoo

leakyboots wrote: »

No, why? Should we use him less if he's that effective? Bizarre comment.

He's a good player and you'd expect his numbers to be high anyway. ..but he's not superman and can't be everywhere at once and won't be there every time they need a good ball carrier.

If his carry figures are that much higher than others it means that the team are having to work their plan around him.

It could also man that they/him are too focused on carries over passes, but that's another matter.