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Rainman16

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walshb

Joshua Points

Interesting, but not surprising to see AJ a slight favourite with Paddy Power. 5/4 on. Wlad is evens.

Burial.

Klitschko Points

Wlad by KO 2/1 is looking as sweet as a nut as is Joshua by KO 6/4 to be fair. Last chance saloon for the Wlad, and no streak or no belts to hold him back...plus coming off a pretty embarrassing loss. Should be a man possessed.

Rainman16

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Littlehorny

Joshua Points

Love the way Hearn says alot has been happening in the heavyweight landscape, problem is its all outside the ring! 3 or 4 men all claiming to be the champ. I must be getting old but i harp back to when we had a champ and everyone knew he was no.1 because he took on all comers and fought more than once a f***in year! Rant over

Danye

I watched the interview with Hearn and he also said a fight of this magnitude deserves a longer run up than this would have, if it got done for the Nov date.

Being a sceptic, I think the fight won't happen with AJ. Wlad will be on the AJ card alright and Hearn will be hoping that both come through their respective fights and then he'll confirm their fight early 2017 and get the hype train going!

walshb

Joshua Points

Littlehorny wrote: »

Love the way Hearn says alot has been happening in the heavyweight landscape, problem is its all outside the ring! 3 or 4 men all claiming to be the champ. I must be getting old but i harp back to when we had a champ and everyone knew he was no.1 because he took on all comers and fought more than once a f***in year! Rant over

That's not a rant. Just pure sense.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

Danye wrote: »

I watched the interview with Hearn and he also said a fight of this magnitude deserves a longer run up than this would have, if it got done for the Nov date.

Being a sceptic, I think the fight won't happen with AJ. Wlad will be on the AJ card alright and Hearn will be hoping that both come through their respective fights and then he'll confirm their fight early 2017 and get the hype train going!

Couldn't imagine Wlad ever being on an AJ undercard. He'd fight a tune up in Germany if that was to happen. **** marinating fights though. If it's going to happen it should happen next. December 10th in the Millennium Stadium. It'd be massive.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

Rainman16 wrote: »

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Different styles make different fights though. AJ will suit Wlad a lot more because he's extremely stiff as a fighter. He'll be able to land on AJ a lot more comfortably and we're yet to see any evidence that AJ can take a shot..

StringerBell

Any evidence?

The shot Whyte him him with that rocked him was evidence enough he doesn't fold easily.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

Any evidence?

The shot Whyte him him with that rocked him was evidence enough he doesn't fold easily.

Any fighter above British level finishes him off in that situation imo. AJ was ready to go.

TheNap

Rainman16 wrote: »

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Other than conditioning and power Fury is better in every other aspect.

StringerBell

Morrison J wrote: »

Any fighter above British level finishes him off in that situation imo. AJ was ready to go.

He was, it was the first time he had been hit flush, the first time he had been rocked, and he fought through it and recovered. Hard to fault him there and the experience will stand to him.

You said zero evidence he can take a shot, that is plainly wrong as illustrated by my post.

djhaxman

TheNap wrote: »

Other than conditioning and power Fury is better in every other aspect.

Speed? Joshua is quicker than Fury imo, and combine that with power and Fury's in trouble.

TheNap

djhaxman wrote: »

Speed? Joshua is quicker than Fury imo, and combine that with power and Fury's in trouble.

I disagree . Joshua is robotic .

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

He was, it was the first time he had been hit flush, the first time he had been rocked, and he fought through it and recovered. Hard to fault him there and the experience will stand to him.

You said zero evidence he can take a shot, that is plainly wrong as illustrated by my post.

My point is that he's been hit clean once in his career and been wobbled. I'm yet to see him brush off a clean punch and come back without being wobbled hence why I've seen no evidence that he's not chinny.

Happens against Wlad and he's done. It was much more Whyte being poor in the situation than it was AJ recovering well imo. He was completely there for the taking.

StringerBell

That's a different argument to the one you initially claimed, that there was not any evidence he could take a punch.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

That's a different argument to the one you initially claimed, that there was not any evidence he could take a punch.

Depends on your definition of taking a punch is I suppose?

Mine would be whether you get wobbled easily or not after getting hit.

walshb

Joshua Points

Wlad does not throw the kind of punch that Whyte wobbled AJ with. The Whyte shot was a peach of a left hook. Wlad does not, and will not generate that kind of delivery power. Wlad will likely try to pick and poke and swipe and grab and hold his way to a points win. I don't see his chin avoiding or surviving AJ. For me it's Wlad's chin that is really questionable in this matchup.

sxt

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

The Whyte shot was a peach of a left hook. Wlad does not, and will not generate that kind of delivery power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8zgIiq1Yog

walshb

Joshua Points

sxt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8zgIiq1Yog

Pulev is muck. That was not the same shot. That was of less impact. Won't do that against AJ. AJs height and range and power will see Wlad fighting scared for the night.

walshb

Joshua Points

Many many great chinned fighters were wobbled and rocked from single shots. Tyson against Bruno in fight 1 rd 1. Ali badly wobbled vs. Shavers in rd 2. Both shook the shot and recovered. Are they weak chinned? AJ may or may not be iron chinned. Using the Whyte shot as some reason that his chin is not solid is silly. Caught flush and clean and did not go down. Wobbled and stunned, but fought back. No different than the two examples from the fighters I named. Both Tyson and Ali had solid beards. The power these HWs generate is scary. Nothing to do with how talented they are, even the 'duds' can knock down buildings.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Many many great chinned fighters were wobbled and rocked from single shots. Tyson against Bruno in fight 1 rd 1. Ali badly wobbled vs. Shavers in rd 2. Both shook the shot and recovered. Are they weak chinned? AJ may or may not be iron chinned. Using the Whyte shot as some reason that his chin is not solid is silly. Caught flush and clean and did not go down. Wobbled and stunned, but fought back. No different than the two examples from the fighters I named. Both Tyson and Ali had solid beards. The power these HWs generate is scary. Nothing to do with how talented they are, even the 'duds' can knock down buildings.

Ali and Tyson comparisons are a massive reach though. Big difference between being caught once in your career and wobbled or taking a number of shots but being wobbled by the odd single shot. AJ has taken one clean punch and been wobbled once.

Its also a fact that he's been knocked clean out by David Price in sparring.

He may in the end of it have a good chin but I'm just skeptical until I actually see him take a good shot and not be wobbled. Be interesting to see what happens if Wlad does land clean.

walshb

Joshua Points

A punch is a punch. I was very clear. I never compared careers as regards chins. I simply gave examples of single incidents. Ali was rocked and wobbled several times throughout his career. AJ took the Whyte shot. If anything it should be shown as a positive, not a negative. Similar to many other examples through history. For me it is more a sign-indicator that he "may" well possess a solid chin.

It is not a fact that he was clean knocked out by Price. Even if it does really suit your stance.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

I just don't see any way that being wobbled 100% of the time you've been caught can be spun into a positive. He was just incredibly lucky that Whyte didn't have the ability to finish him off. There was no method or skill to AJ's survival in that fight.

walshb

Joshua Points

Getting momentarily wobbled by a really good and clean HW shot and not going down, staying upright and surviving, to going on to stop your opponent...You can't see a positive...? Fair enough....

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

You're being very generous given who his opponent was tbf. There is little positives in beating Dillian Whyte over 7 rounds if you are a legit world heavyweight champion.

walshb

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

You're being very generous given who his opponent was tbf. There is little positives in beating Dillian Whyte over 7 rounds if you are a legit world heavyweight champion.

You are veering off course. Whyte to me is not all that good. The shot he hit AJ with was a peach. Like I said earlier, even 'dud' HWs can punch.

Btw, it was Whyte's first defeat.

Littlehorny

Joshua Points

Come on lads- BREAK! and no hitting on the break The fight hasn't even been announced yet and hopefully it will be. These two men are built like fookin oak trees and no chin in the world is going to stand up to a piledriver from either of them so IF the fight is made, it could come down to who brings it on the night or who gets lit up first.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

You are veering off course. Whyte to me is not all that good. The shot he hit AJ with was a peach. Like I said earlier. Even 'dud' HWs can punch.

Btw, it was Whyte's first defeat.

What's the relevance to it being Whyte's first defeat? He'd only fought Bulgarian binmen essentially.

Bottom line is if AJ gets wobbled everytime someone lands clean on him he's not going to have a very successful career. He got lucky against Whyte but with a move up in quality of opposition he wont get that lucky again.

Jury is out on him for me until he proves he can take a shot.

Will agree to disagree.

walshb

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Jury is out on him for me until he proves he can take a shot.
.

No issue there. To date he has proved it. That was my point. I just felt that the Whyte example to kind of diss his chin is both unfair and illogical. To me it showed a good chin. Not great, as we will, as you said, need to wait and see.

megadodge

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

What's the relevance to it being Whyte's first defeat? He'd only fought Bulgarian binmen essentially.

Bottom line is if AJ gets wobbled everytime someone lands clean on him he's not going to have a very successful career. He got lucky against Whyte but with a move up in quality of opposition he wont get that lucky again.

Jury is out on him for me until he proves he can take a shot.

Will agree to disagree.

I have to say I think you're seriously overstating how badly hurt Joshua was against Whyte. This reminds me very much of the same exaggerating that went on with Canelo when he was rocked in his first round with Cotto's brother.

Both situations involved a 'double impact' situation where they were throwing their own left hook and walked into a quicker one. They were definitely rocked, but both recovered quickly and slipped/blocked the majority of the followup punches and also were throwing back pretty quickly - in aprox 8-9 seconds in Joshua's case. There was also the overly-casual attitude by Joshua, where he just walked into Whyte thinking he was just going to blow him away. He learned a valuable lesson there.

Watch Joshua's 2011 World Final with Medzhidov, who is the biggest puncher in all amateur boxing and watch how when hit (and hit hard) he always comes back immediately and you'll get an idea of the 'fight' there is in Joshua. Considering how inexperienced he was back then and how much he has learned about balance, defense etc. in the intervening five years, I'm quite confident his chin is better than average.

It seems to me you just want him to have a bad chin and are reaching for any little sign that it may be the case. Do you have any proof of the "fact" that David Price "knocked him clean out in sparring"?

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

megadodge wrote: »

I have to say I think you're seriously overstating how badly hurt Joshua was against Whyte. This reminds me very much of the same exaggerating that went on with Canelo when he was rocked in his first round with Cotto's brother.

Both situations involved a 'double impact' situation where they were throwing their own left hook and walked into a quicker one. They were definitely rocked, but both recovered quickly and slipped/blocked the majority of the followup punches and also were throwing back pretty quickly - in aprox 8-9 seconds in Joshua's case. There was also the overly-casual attitude by Joshua, where he just walked into Whyte thinking he was just going to blow him away. He learned a valuable lesson there.

Watch Joshua's 2011 World Final with Medzhidov, who is the biggest puncher in all amateur boxing and watch how when hit (and hit hard) he always comes back immediately and you'll get an idea of the 'fight' there is in Joshua. Considering how inexperienced he was back then and how much he has learned about balance, defense etc. in the intervening five years, I'm quite confident his chin is better than average.

It seems to me you just want him to have a bad chin and are reaching for any little sign that it may be the case. Do you have any proof of the "fact" that David Price "knocked him clean out in sparring"?

No I genuinely believe if Whyte had swarmed him he could have taken him out. I think he was a couple of Klitschko overhand rights from being gone either. Joshua didn't fully recovered till he was on his stool. Legs weren't there.

I've never questioned AJ's heart. Clearly has it in abundance but I think he gets wobbled easily. That's all I'm saying. It's not a good trait to have as a heavyweight boxer. Got to remember he's wearing bigger gloves in the amateurs too which absorb some of the power.

Not that I don't want him to have a good chin but it's fair to say that I'm probably naturally a bit skeptical of fighters coming through the Matchroom/Sky hype machine. I don't know how I'm reaching when I've yet to see proof that he can shake off a clean heavyweight punch without being wobbled. Has to be some kind of concern.

Fair enough I shouldn't have said 'fact' because I wasn't there myself. It's been confirmed by a lot of people though and AJ has never denied it. I'd be fairly convinced it's true. End of the day though Price could knock any heavyweight in the world out clean if he landed clean, big puncher, poor boxer.

walshb

Joshua Points

The only person to claim it as "fact" is Price. Plus, he didn't claim that he clean knocked AJ out. And as mentioned, any HW through history could suffer a KO whether in a fight or sparring. Iron chinned or not. They are only human.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

Sparring is sparring and to be honest I regret bringing that up as I take little stock in it myself tbh even though I believe it to be true.

I can't list the people who have confirmed it but it's been something that's been circulating for a lot longer than the other month. Lot of people have said it.

End of the day though it means **** all I agree. I actually detest the idea of sparring stories.

TheNap

Haye is after tweeting that its a done deal

walshb

Joshua Points

TheNap wrote: »

Haye is after tweeting that its a done deal

And has a dig at AJ in the tweet with his making out that Klit is an old past it shell. Comparing it to Berbick-Ali. Ali at that stage should not have been allowed box. Wlad is not at his peak, but still very capable.

TheNap

walshb wrote: »

And has a dig at AJ in the tweet with his making out that Klit is an old past it shell. Comparing it to Berbick-Ali. Ali at that stage should not have been allowed box. Wlad is not at his peak, but still very capable.

Yes it was a dig . I think it was mostly aimed at Hearn though . He will look like a fool if the fight doesnt happen now.

megadodge

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

No I genuinely believe if Whyte had swarmed him he could have taken him out. I think he was a couple of Klitschko overhand rights from being gone either. Joshua didn't fully recovered till he was on his stool. Legs weren't there.

I've never questioned AJ's heart. Clearly has it in abundance but I think he gets wobbled easily. That's all I'm saying. It's not a good trait to have as a heavyweight boxer. Got to remember he's wearing bigger gloves in the amateurs too which absorb some of the power.

Not that I don't want him to have a good chin but it's fair to say that I'm probably naturally a bit skeptical of fighters coming through the Matchroom/Sky hype machine. I don't know how I'm reaching when I've yet to see proof that he can shake off a clean heavyweight punch without being wobbled. Has to be some kind of concern.

Fair enough I shouldn't have said 'fact' because I wasn't there myself. It's been confirmed by a lot of people though and AJ has never denied it. I'd be fairly convinced it's true. End of the day though Price could knock any heavyweight in the world out clean if he landed clean, big puncher, poor boxer.

That's a very unfair comment (bolded). He got hit once by a very hard punch while throwing his own hook. He was rocked but recovered quickly and that one incident translates into "he gets wobbled easily" like it's a regular occurence.

To me an example of a boxer that gets wobbled easily is Amir Khan. I'm sure you'll agree there's a major difference in their respective whiskers?

The Price story that I heard is that he floored Joshua in sparring a good number of years ago, again when Joshua was very inexperienced. Never heard anything about being ko'd. And I agree that sparring stories aren't worth the paper they're written on and can almost never be verified.

TheNap

megadodge wrote: »

That's a very unfair comment (bolded). He got hit once by a very hard punch while throwing his own hook. He was rocked but recovered quickly and that one incident translates into "he gets wobbled easily" like it's a regular occurence.

To me an example of a boxer that gets wobbled easily is Amir Khan. I'm sure you'll agree there's a major difference in their respective whiskers?

The Price story that I heard is that he floored Joshua in sparring a good number of years ago, again when Joshua was very inexperienced. Never heard anything about being ko'd. And I agree that sparring stories aren't worth the paper they're written on and can almost never be verified.

Well that's the only punch AJ has got hit flush with in his whole career . We wont know until he gets caught a few more times.

walshb

Joshua Points

TheNap wrote: »

Well that's the only punch AJ has got hit flush with in his whole career . We wont know until he gets caught a few more times.

That wasn't mega's point, though. One shot is being used here. A peach of a shot that AJ took. Yes, he was rocked. But the significance and connection of the shot has to be factored in. I doubt any HW would have had that just bounce off his chin with no reaction.

But yes, we do need to wait a little longer before deciding on how good the chin is.

TheNap

I took a chance on this fight being announced for December 10th in Cardiff .

I just got a hunch . Booked a hotel with free cancellation.

Littlehorny

Joshua Points

walshb wrote: »

And has a dig at AJ in the tweet with his making out that Klit is an old past it shell. Comparing it to Berbick-Ali. Ali at that stage should not have been allowed box. Wlad is not at his peak, but still very capable.

Ha ha Haye having a dig at somebody for fighting an over matched oponent?!? Have a look in the mirror mate- muppet:p

rebelomar

Fury just vacated all his belts so one if them could be added to this fight id imagine!

Might help deal the deal from Wlad's side.

StringerBell

It's going to be annoying watching Haye talk himself into the title mix after fighting a couple of punching bags.

Joeseph Balls

Joshua Points

Just on the Price thing. That supposedly happened years ago when AJ was still an amateur. 2011 I believe? Price said he knocked him cold (what I've read) but then went on to say something I can't quite recall without the article, but made it sound like it wasn't 'out cold'. Suppose well never know but it's interesting AJ hasn't responded.
Edit: here's a recent one after a quick Google, take from price what you will...
http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/10533149/david-price-knocked-out-anthony-joshua-in-sparring

mansize

https://twitter.com/boxingnewsed/status/787768158530727936

Joeseph Balls

Joshua Points

Have we got full confirmation klutz v aj is happening December 10th yet?

rebelomar

Dan Rafael tweeted earlier there still some unresolved issues and Wlad may go elsewhere for Dec fight.

I hope to God it's bs

walshb

Joshua Points

rebelomar wrote: »

Dan Rafael tweeted earlier there still some unresolved issues and Wlad may go elsewhere for Dec fight.

I hope to God it's bs

Not at all surprising. I don't think the fight happens this year. But let's not fret. It might happen summer next year. Usual BS with this sport. Fighters and teams afraid to take risks. Team Klitschko stalling here because of some BS WBA sanctioning. Pure obfuscation. Wlad at this bloody stage should't be giving a toss about belts. It should be all about challenges and wanting to show that you're top dog!

Diddley Squat

Yeah ........ it looks to me like :

A Joshua vs David Price in Dec

Wlad vs Lucas Browne in Feb