READ MOD WARNING POST #1 BEFORE POSTING- Joshua Vs Klitschko

blade1

Joshua Points

HigginsJ wrote: »

Debateable at the time and certainly not that now. People rag on Joshua's record but aside from beating up on Derek Chisora a few times Fury's is nothing to write home about either before the Wlad fight.

He is gun shy and has a glass chin, will be really interesting to see if he comes back what he is like. He certainly won't be gliding around the ring weighing over 300lbs.

You nearly took the words out of my mouth.
I don't think Fury is that great, in fact i don't think any of the heavyweights are.
Joshua has probably enough to be top of the food chain.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

HigginsJ wrote: »

Debateable at the time and certainly not that now. People rag on Joshua's record but aside from beating up on Derek Chisora a few times Fury's is nothing to write home about either before the Wlad fight.

He is gun shy and has a glass chin, will be really interesting to see if he comes back what he is like. He certainly won't be gliding around the ring weighing over 300lbs.

Skillset wise there isn't a heavyweight close to Fury at the minute imo. Could maybe make a case for Ortiz. I get people having other opinions to that but that's mine.

The Wlad fight is the best win by a British fighter in this decade. People love to try take it away from him but it's true. He has a better resume than Joshua even if Joshua wins on Saturday. Prime Chisora beats Dillian Whyte (a shot Chisora already beat him imo).

walshb

Joshua Points

Schooling to me is what Floyd did to Corrales or what Chavez did to Camacho or what Ali did to Terrell.......

That's schooling, not two lumps poncing around tripping over themselves trying their best not to engage!

walshb

Joshua Points

And any version of Chisora lasts about three rds with Joshua. Chisora was never any use. A plodder today and a plodder many days ago.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Who said anything about hurting?

It was a horrible fight with next to no scoring. Boxing is about throwing punches and connecting. If that does not happen it is not boxing. All the other sh1t is just posing.

To say Fury schooled Wlad shows you don't appreciate what boxing is supposed to be.

As I said before, not getting into this with you again. It's pointless.

If you don't appreciate what he did, thats your loss. It wasn't a good fight on the eyes but Fury did what he had to do, and did it to absolute perfection.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

And any version of Chisora lasts about three rds with Joshua. Chisora was never any use. A plodder today and a plodder many days ago.

Very debatable but not really relevant.

blade1

Joshua Points

walshb wrote: »

Schooling to me is what Floyd did to Corrales or what Chavez did to Camacho or what Ali did to Terrell.......

That's schooling, not two lumps poncing around tripping over themselves trying their best not to engage!

There's more than one way to skin a cat Mr Walsh.

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Skillset wise there isn't a heavyweight close to Fury at the minute imo. Could maybe make a case for Ortiz. I get people having other opinions to that but that's mine.

The Wlad fight is the best win by a British fighter in this decade. People love to try take it away from him but it's true. He has a better resume than Joshua even if Joshua wins on Saturday. Prime Chisora beats Dillian Whyte (a shot Chisora already beat him imo).

Joshua does not have Fury's skillset, in terms of movement and defense but there is something to be said for a big athletic fighter who hits like Iron Man. If Fury does not mount offense to keep AJ/Wilder/Parker off of him he could be under a bit of pressure.

In terms of resume I would say Martin/Breazeale are the equal of Chisora so there really is nothing in it, Wlad aside.

walshb

Joshua Points

blade1 wrote: »

There's more than one way to skin a cat Mr Walsh.

Not sure what that means. Skinning a cat in boxing should at least involve landing some punches...

Nobody skinned nobody in their HW fight. It was a non skinning. Abysmal.

walshb

Joshua Points

Fury's skills/skillset is being a little overrated here.

In terms of punching and the mechanics of punching, which I lend a lot of weight to, AJ is streets ahead of Fury.

It is boxing after all, not dancing...

blade1

Joshua Points

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what that means. Skinning a cat in boxing should at least involve landing some punches...

Nobody skinned nobody in their HW fight. It was a non skinning. Abysmal.

He took his belts off him which was the plan.
And yeah it was abysmal.

walshb

Joshua Points

blade1 wrote: »

He took his belts off him which was the plan.
And yeah it was abysmal.

Yes, because in a fight, or what is meant to be a fight/boxing match you have judges that still have to score even the most abysmal (fed up using that word) contests.

11214

Joshua Points

HigginsJ wrote: »

Joshua does not have Fury's skillset, in terms of movement and defense but there is something to be said for a big athletic fighter who hits like Iron Man. If Fury does not mount offense to keep AJ/Wilder/Parker off of him he could be under a bit of pressure.

In terms of resume I would say Martin/Breazeale are the equal of Chisora so there really is nothing in it, Wlad aside.

I think Joshua is far more skilled than Fury in the ring.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

HigginsJ wrote: »

Joshua does not have Fury's skillset, in terms of movement and defense but there is something to be said for a big athletic fighter who hits like Iron Man. If Fury does not mount offense to keep AJ/Wilder/Parker off of him he could be under a bit of pressure.

In terms of resume I would say Martin/Breazeale are the equal of Chisora so there really is nothing in it, Wlad aside.

Joshua has his own skillset for sure and it's an effective one at the level he's been at but Fury is easily the more talented overall boxer. Fury has the best jab in the division to keep those fighters off of him.

You really think a prime Chisora against Charles Martin is a 50/50 fight? Come on..

yourdeadwright

I don't think Joshua is  as skilled as Fury but makes up for it with his athletic ability ,.
Fury is very tricky and is so so smart in there, people may not have been excited but to beat Vlad like he did in Germany takes brains ,his foot work and head movement are miles better than Aj's
But I also think AJ is smarter than people give him credit any Olympic gold medallist has to be good (although I think he lost at least 2 of his fights in London ) , His size and Athletic ability give him the ability to make up the difference in skill levels,
Both very dangerous fighters for different reason's, just cause u like one doesn't mean you have to think the other is bad ,

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Fury's skills/skillset is being a little overrated here.

In terms of punching and the mechanics of punching, which I lend a lot of weight to, AJ is streets ahead of Fury.

It is boxing after all, not dancing...

Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit.

We'll see how good Joshua is at not getting hit on Saturday...

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

11214 wrote: »

I think Joshua is far more skilled than Fury in the ring.

Different skill sets really, not comparable but it is not a bad thing. It is easy enough to list the things AJ doesn't do but in terms of punch power I don't think too many are up with him.

He is still a very inexperienced fighter and he needs to stay calm, his mindset was all wrong in the Whyte fight and it is hopefully something he learnt from.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

11214 wrote: »

I think Joshua is far more skilled than Fury in the ring.

In what way? What does he do better bar being blessed with more power?

walshb

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit.

We'll see how good Joshua is at not getting hit on Saturday...

Yes. You said it. You do realise that hitting is part of the equation?

walshb

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

In what way? What does he do better bar being blessed with more power?

His mechanics of punching, delivery, power and fluidity are far more polished/skilled than Fury.

Too Tough To Die

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Yes. You said it. You do realise that hitting is part of the equation?

He hit enough to win the rounds. The onus is then on Wlad.

yourdeadwright

I'm not suggesting anything but Is there any other heavyweight who's built like AJ ?
I honestly can't think of any as muscular not carryimg some body fat, he must be a genetic freak .

walshb

Joshua Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

He hit enough to win the rounds. The onus is then on Wlad.

He hit sweet F all! Same as Wlad!

walshb

Joshua Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything but Is there any other heavyweight who's built like AJ ?
I honestly can't think of any as muscular not carryimg some body fat, he must be a genetic freak .

There have been several. Just look at Wlad.

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua has his own skillset for sure and it's an effective one at the level he's been at but Fury is easily the more talented overall boxer. Fury has the best jab in the division to keep those fighters off of him.

You really think a prime Chisora against Charles Martin is a 50/50 fight? Come on..

What's Chisora's best ever win? Malik Scott maybe? Martin is nothing to write home about but Chisora is not much more than a European level fighter, let's not make out that he was a top HW.

In terms of the level AJ has been at, it is (sadly maybe) just below the cream of a very sad crop. What is the HW division, a faded Wlad as the benchmark, a fat/suspended Fury as champion in recess and Parker, Wilder and AJ with Pulev/Ortiz and possibly a drug riddled Povetkin left.

The level of Fury & AJ's opposition to date has been pretty similar.

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything but Is there any other heavyweight who's built like AJ ?
I honestly can't think of any as muscular not carryimg some body fat, he must be a genetic freak .

Ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh, someone will bring up David Price to prove that AJ is just a Sky hype job!!

Wlad himself is in ridiculously good shape.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Yes. You said it. You do realise that hitting is part of the equation?

Yes. Have you seen any of his fights outside of the Wlad one (where he also easily outthrew and outlanded him)?

He does throw punches contrary to popular belief. 18 KO's.

The Wlad fight seems to have masked a lot of opinions on his fight style. He was fighting to a strategy in that fight.

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

pac_man wrote: »

Fury is a far more skilled fighter but I think Joshua has quicker handspeed and is possibly stronger on the inside. I'm not talking in terms of fighting on the inside, I'm referring to physical strength and it could be important in this fight.

I'm intrigued to know what will happen when Wlad just clinches like he normally does. I think Joshua has the strength to pivot and disrupt that and by doing so, it gives Wlad less of a breather.

You'd have to imagine Wlad will do everything he can to keep it at range and use his jab, hoping that he will tire AJ by making him chase him and possibly get sloppy/distracted/frustrated.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

HigginsJ wrote: »

What's Chisora's best ever win? Malik Scott maybe? Martin is nothing to write home about but Chisora is not much more than a European level fighter, let's not make out that he was a top HW.

In terms of the level AJ has been at, it is (sadly maybe) just below the cream of a very sad crop. What is the HW division, a faded Wlad as the benchmark, a fat/suspended Fury as champion in recess and Parker, Wilder and AJ with Pulev/Ortiz and possibly a drug riddled Povetkin left.

The level of Fury & AJ's opposition to date has been pretty similar.

Charles Martin wouldn't win a British title imo. He's levels below. Dave Allen would beat him.

If AJ wins they have similar resumes I agree. I'd rather a prime Chisora, Cunningham and Hammer on my record than Martin, Breazeale and Whyte though and wouldn't even have to think twice.

I'd also rather be the first guy to dethrone Wlad and expose him than take his sloppy seconds.

Fury still the #1 no matter what the outcome this weekend imo. This is a fight for 2nd place.

Morrison J

Klitschko Points

pac_man wrote: »

Fury is a far more skilled fighter but I think Joshua has quicker handspeed and is possibly stronger on the inside. I'm not talking in terms of fighting on the inside, I'm referring to physical strength and it could be important in this fight.

I'm intrigued to know what will happen when Wlad just clinches like he normally does. I think Joshua has the strength to pivot and disrupt that and by doing so, it gives Wlad less of a breather.

Agreed on the hand speed. Joshua is a better pure puncher without a doubt but Fury is more skilled in so many other categories.

The question I'm still waiting for someone to answer though is how does Joshua get inside with his non existent head movement against Wlad's jab? I can see Joshua cutting a bloodied and frustrated figure in the mid rounds.

I also think Joshua will need any breather he can get being a fighter who's never gone more than 7 rounds. I wonder how hard he'll gas if it gets to the championship rounds. Longer the fight goes the more of an advantage to Wlad.

Blanco100

Morrison J wrote: »

Yes. Have you seen any of his fights outside of the Wlad one (where he also easily outthrew and outlanded him)?

He does throw punches contrary to popular belief. 18 KO's.

The Wlad fight seems to have masked a lot of opinions on his fight style. He was fighting to a strategy in that fight.

Agreed. I'm not Fury's biggest fan but his style gets results. Obviously i'd love a destructive heavyweight champ ala Tyson who is more destructive, explosive and exciting. I think this is what people are hoping for with Joshua so it clouds judgement a little bit. Theres a genuine hope he will save the reputation of the division.

But again, its wishful thinking rather than sound judgement. We just don't know.

Fury has a means of getting things done. Call it flapping about, or dancing whatever people want to say. He executed a plan in order to beat a very awkward yet powerful undisputed HW champ who hadn't been defeated in 10 years.

People are saying he is feather fisted also, as walshb often preaches himself, its HW boxing, any HW can KO another if the correct shot lands. The real skill is not getting hit. Fury and Wlad have proven they possess this skill.

Joshua will find out if he has mastered the art of getting his offense off without reprisal. Thats the big question for me in this fight. As of now, he is a paper champ who has KO'd alot of cannon fodder without having ever gone the distance. I'll be the first to say fair play if he takes care of Klitschko, it will be a great feat having only had 40+ professional rounds under his belt.

walshb

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Yes. Have you seen any of his fights outside of the Wlad one (where he also easily outthrew and outlanded him)?

I am only talking about the Wlad one.....

Fury for me is quite talented. I am on record as saying this, I do think he is a KO waiting to happen though, and I do think AJ knocks him out cleanly and early.

walshb

Joshua Points

Regarding Wlad's jab. In this fight that pawing of the jab will not work as effectively against a big AJ as it did against smaller men. I see AJ reading it and getting inside or over it to land heavy shots. AJ also has a stiff and hard jab, that he throws with more intent than Wlad.

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

pac_man wrote: »

What happens when Wlad throws the right hand and misses? In nearly every fight he's had, his momentum from throwing the punch brings him closer to his opponent and he either pushes their head down or clinches/leans on them. At some stage they'll be getting in close.

All the cards are in AJ's favour in close for me, he is so strong that he can push Wlad off if he aims to hold and get in offense. There will be no holding from Wlad, it won't work. I'm not saying he is going to fight scared but Wlad will be ultra cautious.

Blanco100

pac_man wrote: »

What happens when Wlad throws the right hand and misses? In nearly every fight he's had, his momentum from throwing the punch brings him closer to his opponent and he either pushes their head down or clinches/leans on them. At some stage they'll be getting in close.

How has this glaring weakness manifested itself in his previous fights? Better fighters than Joshua have not been able to avail of this glitch.

People giving Joshua way too much credit, as of now hes just another pretender ala Pulev, Povetkin, Chambers, Jennings etc.

What makes people think Joshua will be able to fight his own fight and work his normal offence without missing a beat? AJ will need to be able to absorb some punishment himself in order to get his standard offence (that we have seen in his other fights) off.

What is the great equaliser in terms of trying to do this to Klitschko? That all of his other opponents have found out?

HigginsJ

Joshua Points

Blanco100 wrote: »

How has this glaring weakness manifested itself in his previous fights? Better fighters than Joshua have not been able to avail of this glitch.

People giving Joshua way too much credit, as of now hes just another pretender ala Pulev, Povetkin, Chambers, Jennings etc.

What makes people think Joshua will be able to fight his own fight and work his normal offence without missing a beat? AJ will need to be able to absorb some punishment himself in order to get his standard offence (that we have seen in his other fights) off.

What is the great equaliser in terms of trying to do this to Klitschko? That all of his other opponents have found out?

Well AJ is between 3 & 6 inches taller than all of the guys you mentioned and you can only assume that physically he is much stronger.

Also those fights are all years ago (7 years in the Chambers one).

I have said that AJ of now does not beat a peak Wlad. This is, until proven otherwise, not a peak Wlad. He is 41 and his last 2 fights have been poor, for whatever reason.

The equalisers for me are simply size and age, both of which are hard to overcome.

Blanco100

walshb wrote: »

I am only talking about the Wlad one.....

Fury for me is quite talented. I am on record as saying this, I do think he is a KO waiting to happen though, and I do think AJ knocks him out cleanly and early.

I agree that he is a KO waiting to happen. But Wlad has been a KO waiting to happen his entire career. The problem is they have adapted to a style that minimises the risk of this happening.

The modern era of heavyweights are giants. Without the size and reach advantages then you will not have any success. Fury like Klitschko, seemed to have perfected the art of using your physical gifts to his advantage. This is the modern heavyweight (unfortunately).

Now Joshua is a giant himself, with physical gifts and dimensions that can possibly allow him to fight this way aswell. And i'd imagine AJ of 2019 will be a more rounded fighter in the above sense, with a quality offensive to back it up. But right now, I don't think his offensive prowess is enough. We will see how smart he is on saturday night though.

Like yourself i'd love to see a more robust HW champ who KO's all comers and fights with a more offensive style with more variety.

Power is all well and good, but footwork, head movement negate this if the opponent is one dimensional. Reach and a stiff jab have been king in the HW division for a long time now.

Blanco100

pac_man wrote: »

For the majority of his career, he's fought guys that are smaller than him him(including the fighters you mentioned) and he's been able to impose his size. These smaller guys have to deal with a bigger man leaning on them which is physically draining. He frustrated the life out of Pulev and Povetkin by leaning on them. When he fights Joshua, I'm pretty confident he wont have that luxury.

Thats a very fair point pacman, he handled a decent version of Tony Thompson however who was no push over and 6'5 or 6'6. Obviously thats a few years ago, and people will say its only Tony Thompson. But i'm struggling to see what justifies Joshua's hype to claim he is anything more special?

Incidentally Joshua is supposedly using Mariusz Wach as a sparring partner who also stands a 6'8, a guy who Klitschko beat in 2012. He has beaten a few guys of similar stature than himself.

I'm just very curious to see whether or not Joshua can outbox Wlad over 12 rounds. I don't see a case for him KO'ing Wlad, I just cannot fathom it. Now Klitschko is potentially there to be outboxed and out-fought by someone who gets in and out ala Fury (maybe in a more clean fashion) but I just don't see Joshua being that kind of fighter. You kind of know what you will get from him.

For a guy with his kind of physique who has never gone 12 rounds, against a wily operator who has made a career out of shipping very little punches (and systematically breaking down opponents over 12 rounds himself) and is proven in the championship rounds himself, I just think even an aging Wlad is all wrong for Joshua. He will be very hard to get at, and Wlad will definately want to take him into the later rounds to see how he holds up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Joshua running out of steam from around round 6 or 7 onwards.

walshb

Joshua Points

I think people will be rightly surprised to see that should this become a pure points scoring boxing match, that AJ will hold his own. Wlad to win via boxing will have to engage and will have to be in range. You can be sure that AJ will be in there trying hard and committing with hard shots, so really, Wlad will have to commit very hard to win on points.

This is the big risk. Engaging and trying to win will see him in the danger zone, and not a zone occupied by smaller and less powerful hitting men that he could hold and lean on and shove about. In the zone against a man of similar weight and height, and who boxes cleanly and who can knock you cold with one shot.

Blanco100

walshb wrote: »

I think people will be rightly surprised to see that should this become a pure points scoring boxing match, that AJ will hold his own. Wlad to win via boxing will have to engage and will have to be in range. You can be sure that AJ will be in there trying hard and committing with hard shots, so really, Wlad will have to commit very hard to win on points.

This is the big risk. Engaging and trying to win will see him in the danger zone, and not a zone occupied by smaller and less powerful hitting men that he could hold and lean on and shove about. In the zone against a man of similar weight and height, and who boxes cleanly and who can knock you cold with one shot.

Thats a very fair point and its what makes it a fascinating fight.

You could say the same for Joshua though, he is fighting a seasoned veteran who has shown himself hard to hit.

And Joshua won't have felt power in the paid ranks like the power Wlad posesses. This will keep Joshua honest. I just think that it will be easier for Wlad to find Joshua such is the way AJ has fought thus far. AJ landing on Wlad will necessitate AJ taking risks. And how does AJ react to being hit with the power Wlad carries? Even if its standard jab, straight right, left hook in whatever order. They all carry power.

I actually sound like Tony Bellew talking about carrying power :P

walshb

Joshua Points

Blanco100 wrote: »

Thats a very fair point and its what makes it a fascinating fight.

You could say the same for Joshua though, he is fighting a seasoned veteran who has shown himself hard to hit.

And Joshua won't have felt power in the paid ranks like the power Wlad posesses. This will keep Joshua honest. I just think that it will be easier for Wlad to find Joshua such is the way AJ has fought thus far. AJ landing on Wlad will necessitate AJ taking risks. And how does AJ react to being hit with the power Wlad carries? Even if its standard jab, straight right, left hook in whatever order. They all carry power.

I actually sound like Tony Bellew talking about carrying power :P

Well, it really boils down to who you believe takes a better shot. I, and some others believe that AJ likely does...

Add in that it's AJ who is likely the one firing really spiteful shots compared to the negative/cautious/swiping approach from Wlad.

Wlad could surprise us all and really throw the kitchen sink at AJ, and knock him out. I just think that at this stage he is not going to deviate from his negative/scared approach.

Another scenario is that he commits with his usual style and the shots are hard enough to hurt and deter and possibly KO AJ. To me that is unlikely. His best chance to win is to take risks and fight like a champion, early/hard and committed. He goes in negative and cautious and hoping to tire AJ and frustrate him and he may be looking up at the ceiling very early.

Blanco100

walshb wrote: »

Well, it really boils down to who you believe takes a better shot. I, and some others believe that AJ likely does...

Add in that it's AJ who is likely the one firing really spiteful shots compared to the negative/cautious/swiping approach from Wlad.

Wlad could surprise us all and really throw the kitchen sink at AJ, and knock him out. I just think that at this stage he is not going to deviate from his negative/scared approach.

Another scenario is that he commits with his usual style and the shots are hard enough to hurt and deter and possibly KO AJ. To me that is unlikely. His best chance to win is to take risks and fight like a champion, early/hard and committed. He goes in negative and cautious and hoping to tire AJ and frustrate him and he may be looking up at the ceiling very early.

But you are just showing your bias here again to a particular style of fighter. His best chance isn't to take risks, the Wlad who took risks was KO'd by Purrity and Brewster. I know you want to see an exciting fight maybe this is clouding reasoned judgement.

Wlad for the last 10 years has always been cautious and negative. He has stunk the the place out more often than not with his safety first approach, whilst also building an impressive KO percentage.

Despite rumours about his chin lets imagine AJ does take the better shot for a minute. He will still have to try and do what no other HW has managed to do in the last 10 years and land consistently flush with power punches on Wlad. This is easier said then done.

No matter how much you want to see a HW champ of this ilk, he will not stand and trade with Joshua. And Joshua will not want to trade with Wlad either as it would be lights out. They key will be whether or not Joshua is smart enough to adapt and find a way to win when the KO isn't on the cards for him.

walshb

Joshua Points

My advice to take chances is due to him maybe knocking AJ out, and not waiting and hoping that he himself doesn't get knocked out.

By take chances I am not saying wild reckless aggression, just committed and spiteful offensive bursts.

I really think that if he fights too cautiously he will end up allowing AJ time and space, and allow AJ to dictate the offensive action, resulting in him getting knocked out early.

Frank Bullitt

Joshua KO

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not suggesting anything but Is there any other heavyweight who's built like AJ ?
I honestly can't think of any as muscular not carryimg some body fat, he must be a genetic freak .

This guy sprung to mind when I read that.

StringerBell

I have seen nothing to suggest AJ has stamina issues, the only fight that did last a few rounds he still looked fresh and that was a high paced match. I think his engine is fine, I think his chin is fine, his issue is going to be closing the gap and avoiding counters. Timing is what Wlad needs, he needs his reflexes to be there for him big time on the night to time AJ coming in and rock him.

Haven't actually been this excited for a fight in a long time.

Frank Bullitt

Joshua KO

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/david-haye-the-reality-is-wladimir-klitschkos-finished

It was only a matter of time before David "My career is ****ed beyond repair" Haye would chime in.

He wants to fight the winner, it would be more of a challenge for him to fight off a cold.

zweton

any ideas what time katie taylor will be on?

walshb

Joshua Points

zweton wrote: »

any ideas what time katie taylor will be on?

She's 4th from the top. AJ/Quigg/Campbell/Taylor...

Shortly after 8 I reckon.

Burial.

Klitschko Points

At least they've learned their lesson and chucked her down a few spots. Regardless though, Quigg and Campbell will still probably stink out the joint as bad. Campbell/Perez fight has some potential if Perez actually turns up in a decent state. Can't help but be unconvinced by Campbell.

Gamebred

Some shape...