Expelled for what?

icebergiceberg

Has any student ever been expelled in the place where you work? It is a serious business so was wondering what kinds of stuff students get up to to warrant this.

judeboy101

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Has any student ever been expelled in the place where you work? It is a serious business so was wondering what kinds of stuff students get up to to warrant this.

Very few students ever expelled, most are "persuaded" to leave. A section 29 committee will use a wrongly dotted i as an excuse to deny an exclusion.

icebergiceberg

judeboy101 wrote: »

Very few students ever expelled, most are "persuaded" to leave. A section 29 committee will use a wrongly dotted i as an excuse to deny an exclusion.

Yes, I know.

Has any student left your place? What were the circumstances?
Was it a series of things or a specific incident?

judeboy101

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Yes, I know.

Has any student left your place? What were the circumstances?
Was it a series of things or a specific incident?

2 were for persistent disrupting the T&L of others (school lost both due to insufficent pastoral care) two were for persistent behaviour issues coupled with very serious incidents (garda serious). Lost 2nd two on technicality (wrong date on a letter etc. In all 4cases students won s29 but didn't come back.

icebergiceberg

judeboy101 wrote: »

2 were for persistent disrupting the T&L of others (school lost both due to insufficent pastoral care) two were for persistent behaviour issues coupled with very serious incidents (garda serious). Lost 2nd two on technicality (wrong date on a letter etc. In all 4cases students won s29 but didn't come back.

Yes, I think that the main reason students leave: consistent interference over a period of time. Where the school simply can not take any more.

I am wondering, however, of situations-one off situations- where a school has no option but to expel/persuade to leave. Where there hasn't necessarily been any pattern of bad behaviour. Have you had any of those?

The_Valeyard

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Yes, I think that the main reason students leave: consistent interference over a period of time. Where the school simply can not take any more.

I am wondering, however, of situations-one off situations- where a school has no option but to expel/persuade to leave. Where there hasn't necessarily been any pattern of bad behaviour. Have you had any of those?

Just a matter of curiosity OP,

Are you, a friend, or family member in a spot of bother?

runswithascript

I am familiar with a case where the student was 'asked to leave', so as not to have expulsion on their record - this request was of course under the threat of expulsion. Two schools the same.

icebergiceberg

dusf wrote: »

I am familiar with a case where the student was 'asked to leave', so as not to have expulsion on their record - this request was of course under the threat of expulsion. Two schools the same.

Yes this is the way things are done. An amicable separation as it were. Was it for a once off situation however?

evolving_doors

Because cases are usually 'so' unique I'd hesitate in giving any info that would identify the school. In any event, most teachers usually hear the upshot through hearsay. There's probably a deal struck behind closed doors.

runswithascript

icebergiceberg wrote: »

Was it for a once off situation however?

dusf wrote: »

Two schools the same.

So it must be quite common.

Skatedude

A guy in my school got expelled just before the leaving cert for not cutting his hair, He was a musician in a metal band.

4068ac1elhodqr

Years ago remember a crowd getting removed for running one of those Ouija board things, and summing up the divil himself, who caused a bit of havoc. Funnily enough it was the same room that was later chosen by the local visiting priest, who may also have been 'of the dark side'.

These days guess dressing up as a clown or using the new multi-gender toilet in an incorrect manner may be enough cause to offend.

gaiscioch

Once. Once. Only once. The child was seriously psychiatrically disturbed and a clear and present danger to the other children. It was as if he had a complete absence of empathy for every other child.

But do you think his primary school reports had any inkling of it? Not a bit. Glowing reports. He lasted about two months of first year before his parent was asked to finally remove him - c. 8 suspensions later. The principal was petrified to make the decision. It was 2 months where each staff member was genuinely afraid for the children. I was one of the staff members who was brought in to give examples of his actions in class and I remember his mother saying to the three staff members at the meeting "Are you saying my child is mentally unwell?" It was very tragic and she seemed to have no help in raising the child. There is apparently some school in Cabra which tries to help such kids but last I heard another student and her family were forced out of the area because of harrasment from this child. Another child that we all fully expect to see on the news for the wrong reasons in the future.

icebergiceberg

gaiscioch wrote: »

Once. Once. Only once. The child was seriously psychiatrically disturbed and a clear and present danger to the other children. It was as if he had a complete absence of empathy for every other child.

But do you think his primary school reports had any inkling of it? Not a bit. Glowing reports. He lasted about two months of first year before his parent was asked to finally remove him - c. 8 suspensions later. The principal was petrified to make the decision. It was 2 months where each staff member was genuinely afraid for the children. I was one of the staff members who was brought in to give examples of his actions in class and I remember his mother saying to the three staff members at the meeting "Are you saying my child is mentally unwell?" It was very tragic and she seemed to have no help in raising the child. There is apparently some school in Cabra which tries to help such kids but last I heard another student and her family were forced out of the area because of harrasment from this child. Another child that we all fully expect to see on the news for the wrong reasons in the future.

I see. Have you had behaviour in your place that you thought warranted expulsion but which never in fact happened?

deiseindublin

It's a bit odd that you're not declaring your background with the question?

Are you a journalist?

seavill

A first year violent towards staff in an incident expelled and upheld on appeal

Icsics

gaiscioch wrote: »

Once. Once. Only once. The child was seriously psychiatrically disturbed and a clear and present danger to the other children. It was as if he had a complete absence of empathy for every other child.

But do you think his primary school reports had any inkling of it? Not a bit. Glowing reports. He lasted about two months of first year before his parent was asked to finally remove him - c. 8 suspensions later. The principal was petrified to make the decision. It was 2 months where each staff member was genuinely afraid for the children. I was one of the staff members who was brought in to give examples of his actions in class and I remember his mother saying to the three staff members at the meeting "Are you saying my child is mentally unwell?" It was very tragic and she seemed to have no help in raising the child. There is apparently some school in Cabra which tries to help such kids but last I heard another student and her family were forced out of the area because of harrasment from this child. Another child that we all fully expect to see on the news for the wrong reasons in the future.

We have had a similar experience with a feeder primary not giving full reports & extremely disruptive kids arriving out of the blue. They proceed to cause uproar, soak up all learning support resources & the school has to fund reports itself to try to get hours.

byhookorbycrook

Icsics wrote: »

We have had a similar experience with a feeder primary not giving full reports & extremely disruptive kids arriving out of the blue. They proceed to cause uproar, soak up all learning support resources & the school has to fund reports itself to try to get hours.

Up to recently, there was no mechanism for sharing such information. Primary schools could not pass on any assessments to the secondary, the parent was the only one allowed to do so.

Learning support hours are under GAM and all schools must prioritise on a needs basis. "Hours" are for children with low incidence SEN and have to be re-applied for by the secondary school.They don't transfer automatically.

By reports , I presume you mean reports from the likes of CAHMS- primary schools can't provide those, NEPS only deal with psycho-educational assessments.

If a parent won't refer their child for behavioural concerns, it's not possible to force them to do so. Many primary schools would love to be able to privately fund such assessments but just don't have the money.

evolving_doors

Each school is allocated some 'free' Ed. Psych. Assessments. Although it's not hard to use these up quickly.

spurious

At least one of the bigger ETBs has its own psychological service.

byhookorbycrook

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Each school is allocated some 'free' Ed. Psych. Assessments. Although it's not hard to use these up quickly.

Actually, in primary , we don't get a certain amount of assessments any longer, we get notional "blocks of time". Every single meeting , observation and even the time taken to score the assessment and write the report up comes from that time. That time is not ring fenced either -so if there is a "critical incident" or some other school can prove a greater need, that time may come at the expense of other schools.

NEPS only do psycho-ed. assessments not behavioural anyhow.

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Up to recently, there was no mechanism for sharing such information. Primary schools could not pass on any assessments to the secondary, the parent was the only one allowed to do so.

Learning support hours are under GAM and all schools must prioritise on a needs basis. "Hours" are for children with low incidence SEN and have to be re-applied for by the secondary school.They don't transfer automatically.

By reports , I presume you mean reports from the likes of CAHMS- primary schools can't provide those, NEPS only deal with psycho-educational assessments.

If a parent won't refer their child for behavioural concerns, it's not possible to force them to do so. Many primary schools would love to be able to privately fund such assessments but just don't have the money.

I don't think that's true though as it flies in the face of professionalism (we're all professionals, whether in primary or secondary).

Edit: I'd agree that there's no mechanism though.

In saying all that though we usually start from scratch and wait for parents to come forward with issues prior to entry into secondary. They usually do but I could imagine there might be some areas where parental involvement in child's education might be low (or else they just assume it'll be transferred over!).