What exactly do I have to supply to tenants

Terri26

Terri26 wrote: »

How is it better for the tenant?

You have your own stuff, the stuff that suits you and that has memories; not the soggy sofa that the landlord has had for years, the bed that is too hard or too soft and all the stuff bought by him because it suited rental properties ( ie cheap and long lasting)...

Michael D Not Higgins

On the list of things wrong with renting in Ireland, the regulation that requires you buy a €50 microwave is very near the bottom.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its chicken and egg. If youre renting in Ireland you wont find anywhere that will allow you to bring your own appliances.

I agree, renting unfurnished is better for everybody. On the Continent, even student flats are unfurnished. The student brings basiics from home or IKEA and starts to build up their furniture and appliance collection from then on.

Its better for the tenant and for the landlord.

No not for me, I'd have no interest whatsoever in renting unfurnished. If I'm renting I want everything provided and not have the hassle and expensive of buying my own things when I might move to another place that they don't fit, have the cost of buying them and moving them etc etc.

Buying your own appliance and furniture is for when you buy your own house. Even as a LL you can furnish a place cheaply enough so not a big deal.

Danica Strong Firehouse

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

No not for me, I'd have no interest whatsoever in renting unfurnished. If I'm renting I want everything provided and not have the hassle and expensive of buying my own things when I might move to another place that they don't fit, have the cost of buying them and moving them etc etc.

Well thats you and no-one is saying a complete changeover to unfurnished overnight but it would help the rental situation in Ireland if landlords didnt feel the needed to kit out their place, after the required list, with coffee tables and sleeping chairs and couches and what not. It would be cheaper for landlords, which might bring prices down a bit.

Buying your own appliance and furniture is for when you buy your own house. Even as a LL you can furnish a place cheaply enough so not a big deal.

Im 34, Ive been renting for 16 years and I'll be renting for another 5 at least before I get a place of my own. For most of those 16 years Ive lived in places with crappy not IKEA, but Argos furniture. Stuff that fell apart when looking at it. I once didnt get the deposit back because there were stains on the white suede couch. White suede is like a magnet to stains. With all due care and diligence, the white suede couch got a stain on it.

Its a bit sad that for the last 16 years Ive lived with and on, the cheapest possible crap. The days are over when people bought houses at 25 or 30. Why put off buying things you like for when you get your house if its going to be 5,10 or 15 years in the future?

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Well thats you and no-one is saying a complete changeover to unfurnished overnight but it would help the rental situation in Ireland if landlords didnt feel the needed to kit out their place, after the required list, with coffee tables and sleeping chairs and couches and what not. It would be cheaper for landlords, which might bring prices down a bit.

Yeah glad you put might in italics there, because the likelyhood is the pricing wouldn't come down.

These are on the list for a reason. They are minimum expectations and appliances required for living, and historically there has clearly been precedent for landlords in situations to gouge while supplying the minimum. It's why anything like this exists, there was a precedent at a point in time.

My first apartment didn't have a dryer and no private area for drying. There was no heating in the house apart from a fireplace, and the house experienced mould in winter. We didn't mind not giving the landlord hassle over the dryer, aslong as he had the understanding he wasn't to come near us about mould. and we had a happy professional relationship.

On a simple base level, if you don't provide an oven, fridge and the likes, who is covering the installation costs? Is a landlord happy I bring a contractor in to perform works on his/her property? Maybe I wouldn't be happy using a landlords contact if I have one I trust. Who's liable for damages for poor work.

All of that just avoided by providing the basic stuff.

I'd say if unfurnished rentings became a thing, they can kiss goodbye this craic of looking for two and three months deposit.

I've very little furniture that I own, every apartment has had beds, sofas and the likes. I've only ever had to pickup bookcases, coffee tables and Tv stands. I'm lucky that the range I like from IKEA is cheap. Last two times I've moved landlords have offered me cash to leave my stuff, and I've just gone and bought the same stuff again for our new place

Have to say I wouldn't go near an unfurnished place unless there was a seriously lower rent on offer.

Cookie_Monster

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

On the list of things wrong with renting in Ireland, the regulation that requires you buy a €50 microwave is very near the bottom.

it's not just a microwave though, its all the other thing's i've already listed which then have to be priced into the rent, along with having to replace these more frequently than normal because tenants won't give a **** about how they treat them.

So you either get the cheapest crappiest appliances (like a 50e microwave) or buy decent quality stuff and have a much higher rent to cover it all. lose, lose

newacc2015

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that list is crazy :eek:
fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine / dryer should all be tenants problem.

That's how it works here in NZ and means people actually start building a collection of furniture and appliance and they'll actually take care of them (though 99% places are rented unfurnished in general).

why so much over-regulation?

But what are all tenants who never look after a place going to moan about if the place is unfurnished? You can hardly expect them to pay for the sofa they are going to break throughout the year?

Irish tenants want to moan about the quality of furnishings in rental properties, but never want to buy their own stuff as they either dont have the money. But IMO its because they dont want to look after it. Most Irish tenants respect the furniture they are given, but the small minority who dont are the reason why landlords dont spend €600 on a mattress

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space

Most of the reg's regarding 4 ring hobs etc is a sly way of banning bedsits before they were officially banned.

Turtle_

newacc2015 wrote: »

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space.

I lived in a place like that, it was a nightmare. Never. Ever. Ever again.

Electric Sheep

newacc2015 wrote: »

But what are all tenants who never look after a place going to moan about if the place is unfurnished? You can hardly expect them to pay for the sofa they are going to break throughout the year?

Irish tenants want to moan about the quality of furnishings in rental properties, but never want to buy their own stuff as they either dont have the money. But IMO its because they dont want to look after it. Most Irish tenants respect the furniture they are given, but the small minority who dont are the reason why landlords dont spend €600 on a mattress

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space

Most of the reg's regarding 4 ring hobs etc is a sly way of banning bedsits before they were officially banned.

There is a laundry room in my building, and I love it. Maybe it's because I am an obsessive laundry sorter, but doing 4 large loads once every 10 days or so, wash, dry, fold and put away in 2 hours suits me a lot better than constantly doing a load here and there while never having a full load of each type.

I would hate the sound of the washer or dryer in my own apartment. Far better to have 10 of each in the basement than one of each in my apartment taking up space and making noise.

bassey

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I would hate the sound of the washer or dryer in my own apartment. Far better to have 10 of each in the basement than one of each in my apartment taking up space and making noise.

When I lived in Germany we were in an apartment complex of easily 100 apartments and in the basement there were 2 washers and 1 dryer. Absolute nightmare

DoozerT6

I mentioned this in another thread a while back, but I would also hate the thought of a communal laundry area. Could pilfering be an issue unless you were there to watch your clothes? Do people not get p!ssed off with dragging all their laundry to another part of the building, and back again? Plus, I don't really want strangers seeing me loading my dirty knickers into the washing machine. What if you (or someone else) drops a pair of skidmarked jocks onto the floor by accident and don't see them? Do people just pretend not to notice? Would someone else pick them up? Could you come back from your apartment to find that someone has unloaded your clothes and made off with your best jeans and favourite sweatshirt?

I know it seems to work in other places but I wouldn't be a fan.

On topic, here in Ireland we're much more used to furnished (or at least partially furnished) properties. White goods are generally always included at least. I know we have many more people of various nationalities here now, and each one would bring different housing expectations/experiences from their own countries, but I think we have a while to go here before tenants are happy with a completely unfurnished property. We haven't got the mindset yet of "I don't own my own place, yet I have enough furniture to fill a three-bed house that I may never be able to afford (or want) and that's fine". If you are in the position of having to rent a smaller place than you would like for whatever reason, then you have to find somewhere to store your excess furniture, etc. Back when I was renting, personally I would rather rent furnished, and pad it out with a few personal bits, nothing that wouldn't fit in total in a small Land Rover-sized van.

Electric Sheep

bassey wrote: »

When I lived in Germany we were in an apartment complex of easily 100 apartments and in the basement there were 2 washers and 1 dryer. Absolute nightmare

I wonder if that was legal - it does not seem like sufficient provision of washing facilities. Then again, I have lived in apartments with no washing facilities at all, so I guess that is legal in the US at least. No big deal, trip to the launderette every week or two.

Communal washing and drying, god that sounds horrific.

newacc2015

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I mentioned this in another thread a while back, but I would also hate the thought of a communal laundry area. Could pilfering be an issue unless you were there to watch your clothes? Do people not get p!ssed off with dragging all their laundry to another part of the building, and back again? Plus, I don't really want strangers seeing me loading my dirty knickers into the washing machine. What if you (or someone else) drops a pair of skidmarked jocks onto the floor by accident and don't see them? Do people just pretend not to notice? Would someone else pick them up? Could you come back from your apartment to find that someone has unloaded your clothes and made off with your best jeans and favourite sweatshirt?

I know it seems to work in other places but I wouldn't be a fan.

I have stayed in a ton of Hostels. I never heard of anyone getting their clothes robbed, but phones yes. If you stick up CCTV, I imagine no one would be bothered. Funnily enough I know a lot of the flats in the middle of Dublin City have clothes drying openly in areas where anyone can walk into. Thousands of students are so lazy that they bring bags of week old dirty clothing home to be washed on trains and buses. I think most people would have no issue going from their apartment to the basement.

I just seems so mad to me that most Irish apartment kitchens are tidy and are made even smaller devoting an entire press area to something that is used once a week. A washer dryer is considered a luxury in even large sized American apartments, yet in shoe box apartments in Dublin City they are considered a must. It makes no sense at all.

I would rather use an excellent German washer and dryer in a basement of an apartment complex than the **** British washer/dryers that 99% of landlords buy, which manage to destroy pretty much all your clothing.

listermint

newacc2015 wrote: »

I have stayed in a ton of Hostels. I never heard of anyone getting their clothes robbed, but phones yes. If you stick up CCTV, I imagine no one would be bothered. Funnily enough I know a lot of the flats in the middle of Dublin City have clothes drying openly in areas where anyone can walk into. Thousands of students are so lazy that they bring bags of week old dirty clothing home to be washed on trains and buses. I think most people would have no issue going from their apartment to the basement.

I just seems so mad to me that most Irish apartment kitchens are tidy and are made even smaller devoting an entire press area to something that is used once a week. A washer dryer is considered a luxury in even large sized American apartments, yet in shoe box apartments in Dublin City they are considered a must. It makes no sense at all.

I would rather use an excellent German washer and dryer in a basement of an apartment complex than the **** British washer/dryers that 99% of landlords buy, which manage to destroy pretty much all your clothing.

There's people here that want to live like a hostel in their permanent home...

And the same folks are saying American apartment sizes are something to aspire to.....

athtrasna

Thread title is "What exactly do I have to supply to tenants". Nothing to do with US or German apartment sizes or hostels.

68 lost souls

Surprised by the requirement for a microwave our current rental didn't come with one so we just bought one ourselves. Going to bring it with us to our new place.

Hoover was also supplied but we have our own so left the LL one in the box as new.

The kettle broke but it was the cheapest one in Argos anyway so we replaced it ourselves.

Bought our own toaster too.

We only have shared communal gardens and no drier, no space for a drier either but we would never ever use a drier anyway hate the things. Clothes horse does the job for us

Mrs OBumble

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

Communal washing and drying, god that sounds horrific.

Ahh, you live pretty much in a boarding house with a shared kitchen/lounge. How is that not communal?


To bring this back to the OP's question: note that there's a requirement to supply access to a washing machine and drying facility, not exclusive access.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

note that there's a requirement to supply access to a washing machine and drying facility, not exclusive access.

A clothes horse is a drying facility.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, you live pretty much in a boarding house with a shared kitchen/lounge. How is that not communal?

There is no comparison between and a washing machine in a shared house used by 3 people compared to a communal laundry room in an apartment complex.

It's not even the number of people using it it's the awkwardness of using it, not being able to throw on a wash going to bed and put it out in the morning etc. I'd just bring all my washing home if I was living in a set up like this (normally just bring home what ever washing I've built up during the week before my weekends at home at the moment).

Turtle_

newacc2015 wrote: »

Thousands of students are so lazy that they bring bags of week old dirty clothing home to be washed on trains and buses. I think most people would have no issue going from their apartment to the basement.

I was that student once... Because I lived in a flat that only had access to communal laundry facilities. Every time I hauled all my stuff down to the basement, both of the washing machines were in use and a few more loads were in a queue. It just didn't work. Funnily enough, from a look at daft, a lot of flats in that complex are now getting their own washing machines...

BigAl81

Hi there,

Does anyone know if an extractor fan in the kitchen is mandatory? It's mentioned in the first link in the thread but not the second.

Don't have one currently and I'm surprised the smell in the kitchen without one!

Currently following up with property agent but they are worse than useless so any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Al.

dennyk

Deleted User wrote: »

A clothes horse is a drying facility.

Doesn't sound like it according to the regulations:

(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).

That's clearly referring to a mechanical dryer, not a clothes horse.

BigAl81 wrote: »

Hi there,

Does anyone know if an extractor fan in the kitchen is mandatory? It's mentioned in the first link in the thread but not the second.

The regulation says:

9. (1) Every room used, or intended for use, by the tenant of the house as a habitable room shall have adequate ventilation.

(2) All means of ventilation shall be maintained in good repair and working order.

(3) Adequate ventilation shall be provided for the removal of water vapour from kitchens and bathrooms.

Does your kitchen have a window that opens? If so, that might qualify as "adequate ventilation" for the purposes of that clause. If your kitchen has an extractor fan but it's not working, then section (2) would probably apply and the landlord would be responsible for repairing it.

ongarboy

Those of you complaining about communal laundry facilities obviously never had to lug a heavy bag of laundry down to the nearest laundrette 10 minutes walk away and either spend several hours in the pre internet/smartphone era with nothing else to do but watch the clothes spin or else pay extra for a service wash. My happiest day as a tenant was when my LL put communal washer/dryers in the basement.

Of all the recent regulations, mandatory laundry facilities is probably one of the best! Surprised to hear microwave was mandatory as I'd equate that with a George Foreman or a wok...a handy extra but not critical for cooking.

Tigerbalm1

Does the drying area have to be for the exclusive use of the apartment? I'm confused by the wording, have a building with a communal washing machine and a shared area outside to hang clothes but no dryer, does this fit the regulation?

Michael D Not Higgins

Tigerbalm1 wrote: »

Does the drying area have to be for the exclusive use of the apartment? I'm confused by the wording, have a building with a communal washing machine and a shared area outside to hang clothes but no dryer, does this fit the regulation?

The wording is ambiguous but I would say technically not.

"(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type)."

"(ii) “house” includes any building or part of a building used or suitable for use as a dwelling and any outoffice, yard, garden or other land appurtenant thereto or usually enjoyed therewith,"

It could be argued that house in this instance means the apartment and the yard is not exclusive to that apartment. It could also be argued that the yard is for the exclusive use of the apartment building and house refers to the entire building.

Tigerbalm1

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Tigerbalm1 wrote: »

Does the drying area have to be for the exclusive use of the apartment? I'm confused by the wording, have a building with a communal washing machine and a shared area outside to hang clothes but no dryer, does this fit the regulation?

The wording is ambiguous but I would say technically not.

"(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type)."

"(ii) house includes any building or part of a building used or suitable for use as a dwelling and any outoffice, yard, garden or other land appurtenant thereto or usually enjoyed therewith,"

It could be argued that house in this instance means the apartment and the yard is not exclusive to that apartment. It could also be argued that the yard is for the exclusive use of the apartment building and house refers to the entire building.

Thanks. I had read the provisions and come to the same conclusion that it could be either.