Out of the frying pan into the .... valley of the baboons

career move

Well I thought I felt a bit chest early on in the week but I'm not sure if I was just being paranoid because I wasn't coughing and resting heart rate is almost normal. So I decided I'd do absolutely no exercise for the week but then I started getting itchy feet on sat and I really felt like doing something decent today.
Ya I'm always cold after the kayak even in good weather. The cag I bought is a big help. I might look at getting a dry suit as well. Cormac had a good one that was easy to get on and off.
Hmmm its hard to know. I've always had pretty good endurance in that I can tough things out but I feel like I need to get fitter and lose 4kg so that I can go faster and have bette speed endurance. That's my goal for the winter. I'm thinking of doing the ccar series http://causewaycoastar.co.uk.websitebuilder.prositehosting.co.uk
Any interest?

I leave for India three weeks today. I have a lot of stuff to organise!!!!

Neady83

career move wrote: »

Well I thought I felt a bit chest early on in the week but I'm not sure if I was just being paranoid because I wasn't coughing and resting heart rate is almost normal. So I decided I'd do absolutely no exercise for the week but then I started getting itchy feet on sat and I really felt like doing something decent today.
Ya I'm always cold after the kayak even in good weather. The cag I bought is a big help. I might look at getting a dry suit as well. Cormac had a good one that was easy to get on and off.
Hmmm its hard to know. I've always had pretty good endurance in that I can tough things out but I feel like I need to get fitter and lose 4kg so that I can go faster and have bette speed endurance. That's my goal for the winter. I'm thinking of doing the ccar series http://causewaycoastar.co.uk.websitebuilder.prositehosting.co.uk
Any interest?

I leave for India three weeks today. I have a lot of stuff to organise!!!!

Probably just rest you needed and it sounds like it did the trick I usually get chesty after 20 hours out in the open, I wonder if it's the fresh air or the change in diet or something.

I inherited a cag before the Race earlier in the year and I found it great but a dry suit would definitely make transitions quicker and you don't run the risk of getting cold changing clothes after the kayak.

I did one of those Causeway races last year in Boyle, it was great fun. Very different to try and race snappy but really great fun. It's a shame they all seem to be so far away - no dates or venues for the Winter though so maybe there will be one closer to home.

Annie get your Run

Neady83 wrote: »

I did one of those Causeway races last year in Boyle, it was great fun. Very different to try and race snappy but really great fun. It's a shame they all seem to be so far away - no dates or venues for the Winter though so maybe there will be one closer to home.

21st October - Co. Antrim
25th November - Co. Down
20th January - TBC possibly Co. Tyrone
24th February - Crumlin
24th March - Belfast

From the facebook group that 'someone' suggested I join , not that far from me although miles for you S. What are they??? Or maybe don't tell me

Edit: had a quick look at the website, MTB'ing and map reading required so I'm out :pac:

Neady83

Annie get your Run wrote: »

21st October - Co. Antrim
25th November - Co. Down
20th January - TBC possibly Co. Tyrone
24th February - Crumlin
24th March - Belfast

From the facebook group that 'someone' suggested I join , not that far from me although miles for you S. What are they??? Or maybe don't tell me

Edit: had a quick look at the website, MTB'ing and map reading required so I'm out :pac:

Thanks AM Yea they're just a bit too far away for a 5 hour race. Crumlin in Feb could be a goer though, we could team up. Be an incentive to do some nav over the Winter months.

joey100

Well done on the race, and no time before your going again!

As usual I'm going to comment on the kayaking! Would you have a link to the cag you have? I found in kayaking that it's wind chill that's the main factor in getting cold, most cags tend to be fairly good at keeping the wind off but a lot aren't the most breathable either. This with the buoyancy aid being on and needing to be tight usually means you can sweat a fair bit on the kayak, and probably not even notice it a huge amount. Dry suits are great, not sure of the newer ones but with latex cuffs and neck they can be a pain to get in and out of, the latex isn't the most durable either so care needs to be taken with them.

I'd have a look at pogies, great for keeping the wind off the hands.

http://palmequipmenteurope.com/product/neo

Something like them, they go over the paddle shaft and your put your hand into them. They don't have to be tight around your wrists, just keep the wind off your fingers and help you keep a good grip on the paddle that you can lose with neoprene gloves.

Your right about the kayak, heavier person in the back, putting them in the front causes the nose to dip and makes it harder to 'push' through the water.

career move

Neady83 wrote: »

Probably just rest you needed and it sounds like it did the trick I usually get chesty after 20 hours out in the open, I wonder if it's the fresh air or the change in diet or something.

I inherited a cag before the Race earlier in the year and I found it great but a dry suit would definitely make transitions quicker and you don't run the risk of getting cold changing clothes after the kayak.

I did one of those Causeway races last year in Boyle, it was great fun. Very different to try and race snappy but really great fun. It's a shame they all seem to be so far away - no dates or venues for the Winter though so maybe there will be one closer to home.

I think my chestiness is stress related. Ya I remember Mike and Sean did one too and loved it

career move

Annie get your Run wrote: »

21st October - Co. Antrim
25th November - Co. Down
20th January - TBC possibly Co. Tyrone
24th February - Crumlin
24th March - Belfast

From the facebook group that 'someone' suggested I join , not that far from me although miles for you S. What are they??? Or maybe don't tell me

Edit: had a quick look at the website, MTB'ing and map reading required so I'm out :pac:

'Someone' innocently thought that as they were so close to you, you might like to give them a try. All you need to do is find a team mate. Preferably someone who can map read but it's all in the daylight so you'd prob pick it up quickly anyway. And mountain biking is just cycling uphill!!!

career move

joey100 wrote: »

Well done on the race, and no time before your going again!

As usual I'm going to comment on the kayaking! Would you have a link to the cag you have? I found in kayaking that it's wind chill that's the main factor in getting cold, most cags tend to be fairly good at keeping the wind off but a lot aren't the most breathable either. This with the buoyancy aid being on and needing to be tight usually means you can sweat a fair bit on the kayak, and probably not even notice it a huge amount. Dry suits are great, not sure of the newer ones but with latex cuffs and neck they can be a pain to get in and out of, the latex isn't the most durable either so care needs to be taken with them.

I'd have a look at pogies, great for keeping the wind off the hands.

http://palmequipmenteurope.com/product/neo

Something like them, they go over the paddle shaft and your put your hand into them. They don't have to be tight around your wrists, just keep the wind off your fingers and help you keep a good grip on the paddle that you can lose with neoprene gloves.

Your right about the kayak, heavier person in the back, putting them in the front causes the nose to dip and makes it harder to 'push' through the water.

Thanks.
I didn't feel like I sweated too much in the cag. It's this one
https://www.greatoutdoors.ie/shop/palm-equipment-vertigo
It was actually pretty warm so that's why I kept it on for the last bike

Thanks for the link. I'll check them out. Do you know much about rafting? The first stage in India is an 80k rafting section. I think the four of us are in one boat

joey100

That looks like a decent cag alright, I prefer the neoprene neck rather than the latex, a lot easier to get on and off, more durable and less likely to get the marks from wearing it that you can when latex and salt water combine! Sometimes it's like wearing a bag on your back when your cycling though with the buoyancy aid on, the tightness makes you sweat a bit and it can soak into your thermal or top you have under the cag. Have you tried an earwig for under your helmet?

http://www.i-canoe.com/en/Helmets.29/Head-wear.85/Playboater.21/PBTITEARW/Playboater_Titanium_Earwig_Neoprene_Cap.230.html

I used one of these a good bit, the type of kayaking I would have done would have meant getting your head wet a lot and these made a big difference. Fit nicely under a helmet too. That or a latex swimming hat would help keep the heat in your head, combined with the pogies could help keep you a little warmer. (these might not be solutions to your problem at all, I'm just trying to think of common reasons people used to get cold when I done it!)

No real experience of rafting (a bit on the whitewater course in Cardiff and messing around in one in the Alps but was more for the craic and with a few mates than anything serious), but they are generally steered from the back with the person calling out instructions to the others, so if you want to turn right, person at back calling out hard on the left. Tend to be a bit more forgiving in controlling the direction than a kayak. And a fair bit harder to flip. If it were me I'd put the best person in the back steering. Best at reading the water and knowing where to go rather than the strongest.

career move

Aug 14th - 20th
3 weeks to expindia

Monday:

Nothing. Tired

Tuesday:

Run:
30min recovery. HR was too high (134av) for the pace (6:24/km). It didn't even feel that slow

T&F in the evening. I did 25min warm up. 20 min slow then some sprints then into the races
100m in 15:73
400m in 1:18

Both times slower than Jul but the times don't tell the full story because there was no wind tonight so it should have been faster and people beat me who are usually slower than me. Not happy. I didn't want to do the mile because my legs felt so weak that I didn't think I'd finish 4 laps. That's pretty pathetic. I did the second leg in the 4 x 100m relay and then one of the lads arrived late but he wanted to do a mile TT and I was asked to pace him for the last 400 at 1:20 pace. I figured I'd be able to manage that since I was fully recovered but it was harder than I anticipated and when we sprinted the last 100m I fell in a heap (not literally!) and walked across the line. A disappointing night

Wed - Fri:
Nothing. Legs were very sore and stiff

Sat - Sun:
Nothing. Tired

career move

****** YES IT APPEARS I HAVE MANAGED TO DO IT A THIRD TIME ******

Term| Synonym |Definition |Performance Decrement| Outcome|
Functional overreaching| Short-term overreaching| Increased training leading to a temporary performance decrement and with improved performance after rest| Days to weeks |Positive (super- compensation)|
Nonfunctional overreaching| Long-term overreaching| Intense training leading to a longer performance decrement but with full recovery after rest; accompanied by increased psychologic and/or neuroendocrinologic symptoms| Weeks to months| Negative due to symptoms and loss of training time|
Overtraining syndrome| Consistent with extreme nonfunctional overreaching but with (1) longer performance decrement (> 2 months), (2) more severe symptomatology and maladapted physiology (psychologic, neurologic, endocrinologic, immunologic systems), (3) and an additional stressor not explained by other disease| Months| Negative due to symptoms and possible end to athletic career|

I don't understand how it keeps happening to me. I don't even think that I am or have been training that hard and I have very few outside stresses. My work is easy, I have a lot of free time and very little commuting. Look at Zico's log and see how much he does and sure he's tired but he's coping. Robbie and Cormac did Snowdonia trail marathon 2 weeks before the Beast and yesterday they're back doing a 2 hour run up Mount Brandon. Pat kayaked the length of the Shannon in a FKT attempt a couple of weeks before the Beast, yesterday he did an Ironman in Killarney and in 2 weeks his doing the Kerry way ultra ..... The list goes on. I can't even string a 2 day running streak together without feeling exhausted. I really want to get stuck in to my new training program *insert several swear words here* :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I thought if I kept checking my resting heart rate it was a fool proof way to prevent overreaching because I would know right, as soon as it went up. And I kept telling myself you're not overreaching you're RHR is nearly normal 43/44 You're not overreaching you're just lazy. You're sleep pattern isn't disturbed you're just staying up too late. It's normal to come home from a 3 hour shift and need to lie down for an hour after you've eaten because you're so tired. It doesn't mean anything if you can hear every heart beat and the blood pumping through your veins when you lie down because you're resting heart rate is nearly normal.

Well no that's not normal. Surprise, surprise! When you're researching important health issues it pays to be thorough and not just focus on the bits you wish to be true.

This extract form runnersconnect.net sums it up:

"Elevated resting heart rate does indicate sickness and/or stress however there's no hard data on how reliable this is, whether the magnitude of the increase is related to the severity of the illness or if the RHR spikes before the onset of other symptoms .....

In a healthy runner, the body responds positively to a new stress in training, like increasing your mileage or going further on your long run. But if you’re in a state of overtraining, or “overreaching,” its less-severe cousin, your body rebels against the training stimulus and you feel listless, abnormally sore, irritable, and fatigued.
Additionally, you may have trouble sleeping, and your workouts and races will go poorly.
Since overtraining is difficult to observe in a controlled fashion when it “naturally” occurs (i.e. when athletes unintentionally overdo it by training too hard), most studies instead intentionally induce overtraining by having a small group of athletes vastly increase their training load over a short period of time.
In many cases, this reliably induces the same symptoms as unintentional overtraining.
One such study by Asker Jeukendrup and other researchers at the University of Limburg in The Netherlands observed seven male cyclists who upped their normal training intensity for a two-week block. Among other things, Jeukendrup et al. measured the athletes’ heart rate while they slept at night.
After the two-week jump in training, all of the athletes were fatigued and performed worse in a time trial when compared to the testing done at the study’s outset. Additionally, sleeping heart rate increased from an average of 49 beats per minute to 54.
In contrast, a similar study of distance runners came to a different conclusion.
Verde, Thomas, and Shephard of the University of Toronto in Canada studied 10 runners with an average 10k PR of 31:04 who undertook a 40% jump in training over a three-week period. Six of the 10 runners reported sustained fatigue during the increased training block, and two suffered upper respiratory infections.
There was a very small and statistically insignificant trend towards higher resting heart rates during the period of heavy training, and a similar (though also non-significant) drop during the recovery period after the three-week block, but the authors noted that the magnitude of the change—less than two beats per minute, from about 51 to 53 beats per minute—was far too small to be a useful measurement for athletes in the real world.
Sleeping heart rate fluctuations
A 2003 review article by Juul Achten and Asker Jeukendrup (lead author of the first study we examined) cited four other scientific studies which found no correlation between overtraining and increased resting heart rate.
They did, however, cite one additional study which found an increase in sleeping heart rate to be associated with overtraining. *My sleeping heart rate last night was 47 versus a RHR between 39 -41 last time I felt training was going well
Achten and Jeukendrup hypothesize that heart rate during sleep is a more reliable marker of your body’s recovery state.
Resting heart rate can jump up or down by several beats per minute for any number of reasons, and nighttime heart rate measurements can be measured and averaged over much longer durations than the typical 30 seconds or one minute that it takes to measure resting heart rate.
Conclusion
The research suggests that by itself, your resting heart rate is likely not all that useful of a measurement.

If you are worried about overtraining, it’s probably better to pay close attention to things like your fatigue level, workout times, and sleep quality.
If these start going poorly, you should watch out, regardless of what your resting heart rate is doing."

https://runnersconnect.net/overtraining-resting-heart-rate/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4840584/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435910/

Baby75

I hope that's not the case and may be a viral infection or maybe it might be worth getting your iron levels checked out as well if you have not all ready

My friend had similar issues and her running was suffering the same symptoms she got a chest infection and her GP checked her blood to make sure all was ok and she was anemic, she is much better now and we both did the women's adventure race in Wicklow on Saturday a short but fast one.

hillsiderunner

Annie get your Run wrote: »

24th February - Crumlin

Of course you'll never be short of "adventure" in Crumlin, but Causeway or Coast is not what springs to mind* :pac:

C_M, I am only reading the Beast updates now. Well done! Don't know how you can be racing through the night like that though.

I hope it's not really overtraining, and I'd agree it's a good idea to have your Iron checked. Make sure you get them to check the Ferritin as well as Haemoglobin. I had a spell of being knackered last autumn and when I eventually got the blood checked my Haemoglobin was borderline but the Ferritin was very low. After four months of the iron tablets and eating better I had raised it from 7 to 82 . Being female there's extra stuff you can do to prevent it dropping again.
If it is that of course... Would do no harm to get the GP to check other readings too.

* I know, I know, I Googled it.

Dilbert75

career move wrote: »

You're not overreaching you're just lazy

That was NEVER going to be the case.

Now you're onto the actual cause you can do something about it.

Dilbert75

Dilbert75 wrote: »

That was NEVER going to be the case.

Now you're onto the actual cause you can do something about it.

And to add to this, I think it's really admirable that you not only research beyond what you believe to be true but you then share your findings with others. Many people would quietly change their habits and nobody would be any wiser.

career move

Dilbert75 wrote: »

And to add to this, I think it's really admirable that you not only research beyond what you believe to be true but you then share your findings with others. Many people would quietly change their habits and nobody would be any wiser.

Thanks but I share it for mostly selfish reasons. Writing about it helps me to process the info in my head and also once I've written about it, I can park it and stop ruminating on it

career move

Dilbert75 wrote: »

That was NEVER going to be the case.

Now you're onto the actual cause you can do something about it.

Yup it's under control! Although I do appreciate it's midnight and I should be asleep :eek: but I wanted to share my favourite quote with you ....

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "Wow, what a ride"
Hunter S. Thomson

woody1

career move wrote: »

Thanks but I share it for mostly selfish reasons. Writing about it helps me to process the info in my head and also once I've written about it, I can park it and stop ruminating on it

i recognise a few symptoms in that piece that ive been dealing with lately.. constant tiredness, not able to sleep, muscle soreness far beyond what is normal, iritability.. makes a bit of sense to me that it could be just overreaching.. have had a couple of weeks where the intensity has been far higher ..but the volume much the same..actualy most of this year the intensity is higher.. so whilst you posted to clear your own head. it has been helpful to me at least..
also from the sounds of it you overthink a bit I can park it and stop ruminating on it speaking as someone that definitely does, that can be more tiring than any amount of physical excercise..

career move

woody1 wrote: »

i recognise a few symptoms in that piece that ive been dealing with lately.. constant tiredness, not able to sleep, muscle soreness far beyond what is normal, iritability.. makes a bit of sense to me that it could be just overreaching.. have had a couple of weeks where the intensity has been far higher ..but the volume much the same..actualy most of this year the intensity is higher.. so whilst you posted to clear your own head. it has been helpful to me at least..
also from the sounds of it you overthink a bit I can park it and stop ruminating on it speaking as someone that definitely does, that can be more tiring than any amount of physical excercise..

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted if other people were able to take something from it too. It's just that wasn't my primary motivation in posting about it!

Ya I can certainly be guilty of overthinking!!! But I guess when you spend a lot of time and money on something, be that a career, a family or a sport it's easy to become totally wrapped up in it. Obsession has a lot of negative connotations associated with it but I think to be really successful at something you have to be some bit obsessive about it or else why would you bother when it gets really tough? It's impossible to push yourself past your limits if you don't really care! I think the secret like most things in life is balance but it's difficult!

Annie get your Run

career move wrote: »

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming "Wow, what a ride"
Hunter S. Thomson

Just catching up here, there's no phone signal in the wilds of Donegal . I too love this quote, it sums up exactly why we do the crazy things we do buuuuuut, there's probably a balance somewhere between killing ourselves while having a great time and extending the journey a bit longer . How are you feeling now? Have you been able to do any training in the last week?

career move

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Just catching up here, there's no phone signal in the wilds of Donegal

How did you avoid all the rain, that's what I want to know??

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I too love this quote, it sums up exactly why we do the crazy things we do buuuuuut, there's probably a balance somewhere between killing ourselves while having a great time and extending the journey a bit longer .

Ah ya there probably is and I'm hoping one of these days I'll discover what that balance is

Annie get your Run wrote: »

How are you feeling now? Have you been able to do any training in the last week?

If sleeping was counted as training I'd have done a savage week hahaha. Feeling great today. Thursday and Friday my legs were killing me. I wonder can you get DOMS 3 weeks after a race, cause that's what it felt like!! Im just going to take it day by day. I was thinking since I only have 2 weeks and I don't want to do anything too stressful I might focus on my core work and maybe some easy cycling. I have some core workouts saved so I might pick a different one to do each day and see how I get on.

Annie get your Run

career move wrote: »

How did you avoid all the rain, that's what I want to know??


Ah ya there probably is and I'm hoping one of these days I'll discover what that balance is


If sleeping was counted as training I'd have done a savage week hahaha. Feeling great today. Thursday and Friday my legs were killing me. I wonder can you get DOMS 3 weeks after a race, cause that's what it felt like!! Im just going to take it day by day. I was thinking since I only have 2 weeks and I don't want to do anything too stressful I might focus on my core work and maybe some easy cycling. I have some core workouts saved so I might pick a different one to do each day and see how I get on.

Sounds like you've found it already that looks like an excellent idea, you'll arrive in India strong and refreshed and ready for anything.

We were incredibly lucky with the weather, we'd only left Malin Head when the rain started on Inishowen, very sad to hear about the devastation on the news the next morning. It's the most beautiful county I've ever visited.

Neady83

I know CM has jumped ship but .......... as I type she's doing an adventure race in India so I fugured I'd throw up some info. here so we can all will her on.

Tinterweb is limited in India so there seems to be very little info. coming through and Sleepmonsters aren't covering the race. From FB the race format is as follows:

Seven Legs? Over Seven Days? Isn't it non-stop??
Let's break this down for you.

The race consists of three parts. 2 'prologue' type section - Leg 1 (Thursday) and Leg 2 (Friday).

Then there is the final main race, part 3, a 5 leg non-stop adventure of 450km long involving all three main sports (which starts tomorrow?).

Leg 1 was in Srinagar (Jammu & Kashmir) and Leg 2 is in Sonamarg.

Winners and overall better placing in the first two legs receive a slight benefit in the final main race.

Tracking of the 450km non-stop is here and AR Live Coverage does a great job of breaking it all down and making it make sense.

Good luck K :)

shotgunmcos

The Race is well into the trek but Her team is still seems to be stuck at T2. Now their tracker hasn't updated since 17:10 and the rest are around 2200 so that may be it. Fingers crossed they are actually out on the trek and something hasn't gone wrong.

shotgunmcos

Well Kate and Team are still moving http://www.kineticgear.org/live-tracking/

They are about 42km behind the next team on the Bike Leg but only 25KM or so behind the worst of it. Its a road all the way to T4. I expect they will bike that through the night, have a kip in transition and then finish the last trek in daylight tomorrow fingers crossed again.

Great scrap between the top 2 Nevarest and Skylotec. Literally about 250m between them. They must be able to see each other! Really fast race. Expecting the winners to some in around <50hrs

shotgunmcos

Looks like the made hay on the Bike last night http://www.kineticgear.org/live-tracking/

Had a couple of hours kip in T4 and are now on the last Trek about 3hrs behind the next team. Currently Kate is holding onto the Lantern Rouge but I know her well and she is probably dragging the boys on this trek. She gets stronger as the race gets longer and the morning up on that ridge under a blue sky should lift the spirits!

Annie get your Run

Thanks for the updates shotgun!

Baby75

Great updates thanks

shotgunmcos

The other thing that struck me when I checked this morning is that the Leaders last night Team Skylotech had gone over the summit at CP14 with NEVAREST JAPABBAWOCK and it looked like it was a 2 horse race to the line.

But if you look at their track http://www.kineticgear.org/live-tracking/ (Click Team 5 and "show Track" hover over breadcrumbs to see where they were at a given time) They seem to have started going backwards at about 4am and have been tracking back up the course for 5 hours! Either that or some mountain creature stole their tracker!! If its true it would be the biggest Nav blunder I've seen in any race this year (and from the Leading Team!!). At this rate they may bump into Kate et al at the back of the field. "Tell em to turn around Kate!"

shotgunmcos

Just to note the summit they go over at CP 14 is over 5,400m in altitude! That's just a few hundred meters shy of Kilimanjaro