blessington lakes greenway?

Mercian Pro

secman wrote: »

Personally speaking ive no grà for it , the lake spin for me is a great spin on ths bike , the isolation and quietness together with the spectacular scenery and its demanding enough too.
Last thing I'd want would be spades of cyclists clogging it up. Just my tuppence worth.

I can't really see why you think development of the Greenway would result in the Lake Drive being "clogged up". It will be a totally separate route mainly aimed at a less experienced cyclists and walkers. Like all the other Greenways it will attract families and those not confident enough to cycle on the roads. Hopefully some of those will enjoy the experience enough to take up "serious" cycling and maybe even post here eventually.

hurikane

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for the objectors to this plan.

In June 2019, a person asked on the greenway's facebook page "where will the parking spots be on the Blessington greenway".

An answer was never given. There is no mention in the planning application of any infrastructure to accompany the development.

Same as usual, local businesses lobbying politicians to get what they want, exploit the area and make money from tourists, all while pretending they’re doing it for the locals.

donvito99

hurikane wrote: »

Same as usual, local businesses lobbying politicians to get what they want, exploit the area and make money from tourists, all while pretending they’re doing it for the locals.

Similar investment in the likes of the Royal Canal Greenway have proved to be more popular with locals than tourists, in my experience.

loyatemu

hurikane wrote: »

Same as usual, local businesses lobbying politicians to get what they want, exploit the area and make money from tourists, all while pretending they’re doing it for the locals.

local businesses are locals

a lot of the complaints about greenways seem to be "I like my quiet walk in the countryside, I don't want it spoiled by other people being there"

WestWicklow1

loyatemu wrote: »

local businesses are locals

a lot of the complaints about greenways seem to be "I like my quiet walk in the countryside, I don't want it spoiled by other people being there"

I suppose human nature being as it is, there is probably that element to all such proposals.

Did you read the objections to the planning application?

no.8

secman wrote:

Personally speaking ive no grà for it , the lake spin for me is a great spin on ths bike , the isolation and quietness together with the spectacular scenery and its demanding enough too. Last thing I'd want would be spades of cyclists clogging it up. Just my tuppence worth.

Thats pathetic

no.8

chuck eastwood wrote:

Likewise. I try to do the lake loop every other week but greenways aren't really aimed at serious (and me) cyclists

So why does this affect you? You do realise that it will families with children to enjoy the lake views, fresh air, and exercise safely, not to mention walkers and those with disabilities.....but no no, if chuck and co. Want the area to themselves then f**k everybody else.

Go abroad to mainland Europe (when possible) and look at their setup.

magicbastarder

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for the objectors to this plan.

In June 2019, a person asked on the greenway's facebook page "where will the parking spots be on the Blessington greenway".

An answer was never given. There is no mention in the planning application of any infrastructure to accompany the development.

Is Facebook where you would expect an answer?

Muahahaha

chuck eastwood wrote: »

I wouldn't get your hopes up on doing the lakes Greenway anytime soon. http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/App
Here is the planning application which gives very little detail concerning the upkeep of the greenway or the safety of those who might use it. The level of the lake as of today would mean the track would have to be on private lands and that's a hell of a lot of locals being asked to give up land.
While the outsider might see a greenway here as a great idea those living in the area have had nothing but trouble over the last few decades with trespassing and littering.
During the first covid lockdown vast numbers of people from Kildare and south Dublin descended on the lake leaving it in an absolute state. There is no provision in the plans for full time wardens or policing (it will need policing) . This isn't an old disused railway line like Waterford or the wild Atlantic way. This is slicing through people's private property in a very quiet area.
I've done every greenway in the country and some are well run, others not quite but none will encounter the same issues as blessington with the large amounts of antisocial behaviour from the large number of Dublin residents every year. I've spoken to plenty about this and people are dreading it.

Link isnt working, can you repost as searching greenway on that site doesnt turn it up.

Just on the anti social aspect, Im not seeing it. For sure there is anti social behaviour around the lakes but from what I can see that is a completely separate issue which is caused by people on day trips who have picnics on the beaches, drink cans, have disposable bbqs and then leave their litter behind.

Should the extension go ahead we're not going to see groups of cyclists lounging around drinking six packs of beer half way through their cycle, they will be there to ride the 42km route over 3 to 4 hours often with their kids, have a bite to eat somewhere around the town and then head home. Agree though that there needs to be policing of anti social behaviour but Im not seeing how new groups of cyclists attracted by the greenway are going to increase what is already there at present, its a completely different set of people.

magicbastarder

loyatemu wrote: »

a lot of the complaints about greenways seem to be "I like my quiet walk in the countryside, I don't want it spoiled by other people being there"

It's an amazing attitude. Real dog in the manger stuff.

chuck eastwood

Muahahaha wrote: »

Link isnt working, can you repost as searching greenway on that site doesnt turn it up.

Just on the anti social aspect, Im not seeing it. For sure there is anti social behaviour around the lakes but from what I can see that is a completely separate issue which is caused by people on day trips who have picnics on the beaches, drink cans, have disposable bbqs and then leave their litter behind.

Should the extension go ahead we're not going to see groups of cyclists lounging around drinking six packs of beer half way through their cycle, they will be there to ride the 42km route over 3 to 4 hours often with their kids, have a bite to eat somewhere around the town and then head home. Agree though that there needs to be policing of anti social behaviour but Im not seeing how new groups of cyclists attracted by the greenway are going to increase what is already there at present, its a completely different set of people.

You're missing the point. Personally I want it to go ahead but to be managed properly. There was a proposed entrance exit point planed 300 metres from us and when we asked where the cars would park we were blanked, naturally enough they assumed we would be happy to have our lane used as a carpark. We asked how this would be managed when the three carparks around the lake are currently rat infested because neither the council nor ESB will take ownership and provide waste removal for the few bins. During the summer the warden had to drive around in his jeep and empty the bins because no one else would.
So where in the country would any local let this go ahead without any written management plan ? It's a beautiful area and the more visitors the better, that had never been an issue but the management of it so far is farcical

chuck eastwood

magicbastarder wrote: »

It's an amazing attitude. Real dog in the manger stuff.

You see that's a narrow minded attitude that doesn't help. The local club which I am a member of asked at a planning meeting if facilities had be factored in. Car parks, bins and someone responsible for toilet stops etc. Council run or private company, all thing to benift YOU. But nothing was produced, it's not 1980 lads, surely you can see the benift in planning and managing this properly

chuck eastwood

Muahahaha wrote: »

Link isnt working, can you repost as searching greenway on that site doesnt turn it up.

Just on the anti social aspect, Im not seeing it. For sure there is anti social behaviour around the lakes but from what I can see that is a completely separate issue which is caused by people on day trips who have picnics on the beaches, drink cans, have disposable bbqs and then leave their litter behind.

Should the extension go ahead we're not going to see groups of cyclists lounging around drinking six packs of beer half way through their cycle, they will be there to ride the 42km route over 3 to 4 hours often with their kids, have a bite to eat somewhere around the town and then head home. Agree though that there needs to be policing of anti social behaviour but Im not seeing how new groups of cyclists attracted by the greenway are going to increase what is already there at present, its a completely different set of people.

http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/SearchTypes

And enter 17307 for the planning application details. In a nutshell it says it's putting in for a crushed rock trail, names a few lands it will pass and no mention of any upgrades to carparks toilets etc

Muahahaha

chuck eastwood wrote: »

You're missing the point. Personally I want it to go ahead but to be managed properly. There was a proposed entrance exit point planed 300 metres from us and when we asked where the cars would park we were blanked, naturally enough they assumed we would be happy to have our lane used as a carpark. We asked how this would be managed when the three carparks around the lake are currently rat infested because neither the council nor ESB will take ownership and provide waste removal for the few bins. During the summer the warden had to drive around in his jeep and empty the bins because no one else would.
So where in the country would any local let this go ahead without any written management plan ? It's a beautiful area and the more visitors the better, that had never been an issue but the management of it so far is farcical

ah yeah I agree fully on it being managed properly, that is essential. iirc they are projecting some 300k visitors a year if it goes ahead so naturally that needs waste removal and active management of the car parks. It will (unfortunately) also need litter picking along the route itself too.

But Im just making the point that the users of greenways and there to cycle them, not to sit around drinking cans by the water and being anti social. The anti social problems are a different set of people altogether who will still be there if the greenway gets built or not. They need active management from the Gardai but theres a snowballs chance of that with the local station being effectively part time.

Can you link the planning permission, it doesnt come up for me on WCCs website and the link above is dead.

WestWicklow1

magicbastarder wrote: »

Is Facebook where you would expect an answer?

I don't expect anything. I didn't put the question.

WestWicklow1

Here's link to the planning application....

http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/AppFileRefDetails/17307/0

chuck eastwood

Muahahaha wrote: »

ah yeah I agree fully on it being managed properly, that is essential. iirc they are projecting some 300k visitors a year if it goes ahead so naturally that needs waste removal and active management of the car parks. It will (unfortunately) also need litter picking along the route itself too.

But Im just making the point that the users of greenways and there to cycle them, not to sit around drinking cans by the water and being anti social. The anti social problems are a different set of people altogether who will still be there if the greenway gets built or not. They need active management from the Gardai but theres a snowballs chance of that with the local station being effectively part time.

Can you link the planning permission, it doesnt come up for me on WCCs website and the link above is dead.

There will indeed be a problem with antisocial behaviour one way or the other. I've had two break in attempts since march on my workshop and bike lockup. Nextdoor had €4k worth of damage done to a brand new van all in the middle of the day.

This leads back to the carpark question, you would be nuts to park your car in an unmanned carpark or on the side of the road out here. The amount of CRS broken into on the lake drive is unreal. No camera or security, no changing facilities or toilets. The point again is if all this money is being pumped into it then why can't the provide details of anything other than a basic stone trail
This will be a brilliant amenity if it is built and run properly in a similar manner to the Waterford greenway but as you will see from the planning application it doesn't look like that's going to be the case. Like any other area it needs all the help it can get jobs wise but why let them f**k it up before they've even started

chuck eastwood

http://www.eplanning.ie/Wicklow

If the link isn't working fully just hit the three lines in the top corner, use the search function and enter

17307

Government website. To much to expect it to work properly

magicbastarder

chuck eastwood wrote: »

You see that's a narrow minded attitude that doesn't help. The local club which I am a member of asked at a planning meeting if facilities had be factored in. Car parks, bins and someone responsible for toilet stops etc. Council run or private company, all thing to benift YOU. But nothing was produced, it's not 1980 lads, surely you can see the benift in planning and managing this properly

i think you're responding to a point i wasn't making.

chuck eastwood

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think you're responding to a point i wasn't making.

Nope. I'm fairly sure that was for you.

Muahahaha

chuck eastwood wrote: »

http://www.eplanning.ie/Wicklow

If the link isn't working fully just hit the three lines in the top corner, use the search function and enter

17307

Government website. To much to expect it to work properly

yeah its a very clunky website but had a quick look at it and agree it is very lacking on details, all it says is a track of crushed stone, 100 culverts and 18 bridges over streams. But it seems to be from 2.5 years ago and doesnt have any status like granted/rejected, etc, it just seems to be sitting there.

Would imagine now funding has been allocated that there will be a fresh planning application soon which will go into more details, at least you would hope so.

chuck eastwood

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah its a very clunky website but had a quick look at it and agree it is very lacking on details, all it says is a track of crushed stone, 100 culverts and 18 bridges over streams. But it seems to be from 2.5 years ago and doesnt have any status like granted/rejected, etc, it just seems to be sitting there.

Would imagine now funding has been allocated that there will be a fresh planning application soon which will go into more details, at least you would hope so.

Yeah you see until the project gets the 100% status in generally means it is awaiting a decision on an objection or more impact studies etc. Maybe they are just re doing or finalising plans but it's going on a long time and it would be nice to see the proposals that managed to get an extra 6million euros because I doubt it was based on that planning application

magicbastarder

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Nope. I'm fairly sure that was for you.

keep on tilting at windmills, buddy.
a normal response might have been to ask me to clarify my point.

chuck eastwood

magicbastarder wrote: »

keep on tilting at windmills, buddy.
a normal response might have been to ask me to clarify my point.

And you a mod lol. Try adding a meaningful point based on the topic or like an adult you could clarify your own point, you're not 12 you don't need permission. Its a pretty well mannered topic until someone starts throwing in "buddy" replies to get s response. I've added the local view plus links to the planning application and the concerns regarding the lack of actual plans and you as mod have offered...buddy.

Corker1

Muahahaha wrote: »

That would be a good idea as cars are barrelling through at 100kph at the Russborough House turn off and with increased cyclists it would only be a matter of time before something happens. Any ideas what the existing tunnel was for back in the day?

Otherwise great news that it got funding. Whats the next steps, planning permission and then full steam ahead with construction, how long might that take? Would imagine maybe 18 months but could be longer as there will be objections.

The Tunnel was 'rediscovered' in 2019. It was used historically for cattle droving to parts of the Russborough estate now on ESB lands and fields now submerged by the Reservoir. A steam tram line to Poulaphuca / Golden Falls once ran along the roadway above the tunnel. Here is a link to more info.



https://www.facebook.com/Russborough/photos/russborough-secrets-revealed-in-recent-years-we-heard-local-folklore-that-there-/2830517557040623


Just by way of clarification, The local Reservoir Cogs Cycling Club have not made any submissions or attended any planning meetings in relation to the Greenway in an official capacity. If individual club members have done so, they did so in a private capacity and were not there to represent the club.

magicbastarder

years ago, i was on a walking tour looking for bats on the lake side of the N81, opposite Russorough, and there was a tunnel probably where they're talking about which was known as somewhere to go looking for them. that's assuming it's the same tunnel, though.

Don't Chute!

If this goes ahead it would be a huge boost to Blessington and other villages on the way. I can’t understand how anyone could object to something like this. I don’t believe the parking and anti-social behavior ideas at all. Look at Vartry you can cycle or walk around the whole reservoir and nothing like that that I know of and yes I know it’s not an official greenway. This stinks of the “banana” mentality. On our local open forum on Facebook recently somebody referred to the proposed greenway from Glendalough to Kilcoole as “obnoxious”!!

WestWicklow1

Don't Chute! wrote: »

If this goes ahead it would be a huge boost to Blessington and other villages on the way. I can’t understand how anyone could object to something like this. I don’t believe the parking and anti-social behavior ideas at all. Look at Vartry you can cycle or walk around the whole reservoir and nothing like that that I know of and yes I know it’s not an official greenway. This stinks of the “banana” mentality. On our local open forum on Facebook recently somebody referred to the proposed greenway from Glendalough to Kilcoole as “obnoxious”!!

The parking problem already exists.

Mercian Pro

It's a beautiful waterfront alright but not easily accessed or signposted.

Muahahaha

Corker1 wrote: »

The Tunnel was 'rediscovered' in 2019. It was used historically for cattle droving to parts of the Russborough estate now on ESB lands and fields now submerged by the Reservoir. A steam tram line to Poulaphuca / Golden Falls once ran along the roadway above the tunnel. Here is a link to more info.



https://www.facebook.com/Russborough/photos/russborough-secrets-revealed-in-recent-years-we-heard-local-folklore-that-there-/2830517557040623

Thanks for that. Its a bit mad the tunnel was forgotten about in that way and only local folklore knew about it. The tunnel will be handy access to Russborough to/from the greenway rather than cyclists having to cross over the busy n81.

Anyone know when they talk about crushed stone as a surface what does the finish on that end up being like. Like woluld it be wheenchair accessible? Would you use a road bike on it or does it more call for the wider tyres of a hybrid?