blessington lakes greenway?

lissard

The parking argument is a very reasonable point - anyone coming in from outside the area is going to want to drop their car close to the trailhead. The best example I have seen of this is in Mulranny where there is a nice big car park and a bike hire place adjacent to the Greenway. For the type of people that use a Greenway (occasional cyclists + families) this is a big consideration. I personally love cycling around the lakes and can't imagine that this would in any way ruin the experience.

loyatemu

lissard wrote: »

The parking argument is a very reasonable point - anyone coming in from outside the area is going to want to drop their car close to the trailhead. The best example I have seen of this is in Mulranny where there is a nice big car park and a bike hire place adjacent to the Greenway. For the type of people that use a Greenway (occasional cyclists + families) this is a big consideration. I personally love cycling around the lakes and can't imagine that this would in any way ruin the experience.

unlike the railway-based greenways, it's a loop, so the parking bike hire etc can all be based around Blessington village.

Muahahaha

lissard wrote: »

The parking argument is a very reasonable point - anyone coming in from outside the area is going to want to drop their car close to the trailhead. The best example I have seen of this is in Mulranny where there is a nice big car park and a bike hire place adjacent to the Greenway. For the type of people that use a Greenway (occasional cyclists + families) this is a big consideration. I personally love cycling around the lakes and can't imagine that this would in any way ruin the experience.

The existing 6km greenway has good parking at both ends of it, you've around 50 spaces in the Avon Ri hotel where it begins and more car parking at the lakeshore at Russelltown at the end of it. Also theres Russborough house just across the n81 from there which could facilitate probably about 200 cars. Russborough and Avon Ri are both private pay parking so are managed with barriers.

There are other car parks along the proposed route such as at the bridges to Baltyboys (approx 40 cars ) and Valleymount (approx 40 cars) . Also Blessington Sailing Club which is on the greenway route has parking for about 40 cars too, not sure if they will allow any to be used but it could be an option. The route also runs through Tulfarris Hotel who intend to set up an e-bike hire station on their grounds, they have parking for over a hundred cars there too.

The amount of parking available shouldnt be a problem except maybe for the Avon Ri which would be seen as the natural 'starting point' but only has around 50 or so spaces. When that fillls up then the car parks at Russborough House and Tulfarris Hotel will be adequate options as they're not far away and still on the loop and both can facilitate hundreds of cars.

Supertoucher

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know when they talk about crushed stone as a surface what does the finish on that end up being like. Like woluld it be wheenchair accessible? Would you use a road bike on it or does it more call for the wider tyres of a hybrid?

I would imagine it will be similar to what is already in place in the Russborough to Avon Ri section - I.e. a compacted gravel. More ideally suited to a mountain bike and a hybrid/cyclocross at a push. I wouldn't like riding a racer on that.

Wheelchairs should be fine (if a little bumpy) and we've taken buggies on it fine as well. I would say buggies with bigger wheels (such as most travel systems type buggies) would be preferable. Less so the cheaper buggies with small wheels. You will probably have a fight on your hands.

magicbastarder

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its a bit mad the tunnel was forgotten about in that way

i'm not so sure it was, assuming it's the one i'm thinking of which was clearly visible from the lake side of the road. it allowed/allows a shallow stream under the road. you can just about make it out on the 6" map, again assuming i'm not getting it mixed up with something else.

Muahahaha

Supertoucher wrote: »

I would imagine it will be similar to what is already in place in the Russborough to Avon Ri section - I.e. a compacted gravel. More ideally suited to a mountain bike and a hybrid/cyclocross at a push. I wouldn't like riding a racer on that.

Wheelchairs should be fine (if a little bumpy) and we've taken buggies on it fine as well. I would say buggies with bigger wheels (such as most travel systems type buggies) would be preferable. Less so the cheaper buggies with small wheels. You will probably have a fight on your hands.

yeah was thinking it might be more suited to wider tyres. 27c tyres on a gravelly surface could lose grip quick and be more susceptible to punctures. I suppose serious cyclists would probably prefer use Lake Drive anyway as it is more challenging with lots of hills up and down. If the greenway is following the shoreline then it is not going to be as hilly as Lake Drive itself.

Johnny Jukebox

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

The parking problem already exists.

There is parking at the Avon Ri leisure center which marks the start of the existing greenway. They even opened up adjoining fields during the summer to accommodate the crowds.

They do bike hire, cafe etc also.

WestWicklow1

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

There is parking at the Avon Ri leisure center which marks the start of the existing greenway. They even opened up adjoining fields during the summer to accommodate the crowds.

They do bike hire, cafe etc also.

The Avon charge for parking. They give a free pass out, I think, as part of a receipt from the bar/cafe etc. The field is only opened when there's an event on.

Most users of the track won't pay for parking, therefore the parking problem exists.

Muahahaha

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

The Avon charge for parking. They give a free pass out, I think, as part of a receipt from the bar/cafe etc. The field is only opened when there's an event on.

Most users of the track won't pay for parking, therefore the parking problem exists.

I dont think that will be the case. AFAIR parking at the Avon is something like 3 euro (or free if you spend in the cafe) and its a similar price in Russbororugh. Both are good value to park your car up in a secure car park while you go off for a 3-4 hour spin around the lake. It takes most of the the worry out of break ins that you would have if you park in one of the free car parks with no supervision whatsoever.

If given the choice between an unsupervised car park and one that is on private property with barriers and staff about I think many will take the paid option for security reasons. There is already lots of car break ins at the car parks for trailheads in the Wicklow mountains. Its got so bad some walking groups now have two people who dont do the hike at all, they sit there for the afternoon and mind all the other cars. The Gardai just do not have the resources to police this problem so people have had to take it upon themselves to prevent it happening in the first place.

Of course you'll always get some people who just refuse to ever pay for parking and they will seek out the free ones. But Id say many people wont mind paying for the peace of mind when leaving your car parked up for 4 hours in a rural area.

magicbastarder

how busy is russborough these days?
it could be the making of the place. if they can offer themselves as a base for people exploring the greenway, they could rake it in.

i had a conversation with the barman in a pub in dungarvan - the place the U2 fans go to, dillons? - and he said that one thing they'd noticed from the greenway was that it wasn't as seasonal as normal tourist traffic, it was spread a little more evenly through the year. hard to tell whether that'd still be the case with this greenway when it's only a short hop from dublin, but it could lead to russborough becoming a popular cafe stop in that area.

chuck eastwood

Don't Chute! wrote: »

If this goes ahead it would be a huge boost to Blessington and other villages on the way. I can’t understand how anyone could object to something like this. I don’t believe the parking and anti-social behavior ideas at all. Look at Vartry you can cycle or walk around the whole reservoir and nothing like that that I know of and yes I know it’s not an official greenway. This stinks of the “banana” mentality. On our local open forum on Facebook recently somebody referred to the proposed greenway from Glendalough to Kilcoole as “obnoxious”!!

This project was conceived and driven by locals very well aware of the benefits it will bring to the area. Can you tell me where the 300k a year visitors will park. The large carpark in the town (there isn't one) the Avon (it's maxed out with its own current customers) maybe they could hire parking spots from the church.
There is no banana mentality, arrogant ill informed comment but I'll assume you have more information on the project than I do to make such a statement.

Mercian Pro

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah was thinking it might be more suited to wider tyres. 27c tyres on a gravelly surface could lose grip quick and be more susceptible to punctures. I suppose serious cyclists would probably prefer use Lake Drive anyway as it is more challenging with lots of hills up and down. If the greenway is following the shoreline then it is not going to be as hilly as Lake Drive itself.

Much of the Royal Canal Greenway is crushed stone with tarmacadam near some of the towns or on local roads. Three of us rode it from Cloondara to Dublin last year, two on 25mm tyres and myself on 28mm. Other than a few short sections where it hadn't been properly compacted, it was fine to cycle on. We were probably about 2km/hr slower than on the tarmacadam but it gave more time to admire the scenery and the wildlife!

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

i had a conversation with the barman in a pub in dungarvan - the place the U2 fans go to, dillons?

correction - downeys.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0891531,-7.6193905,3a,78.6y,354.39h,78.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ9e1Rtha3-eAAEQTXBimAQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

WestWicklow1

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont think that will be the case.

I'm telling you how it is now at the Blessington end with only 6 kms of track.

I have asked people why they don't park in the Avon and they tell me because they would have to pay.

chuck eastwood

magicbastarder wrote: »

how busy is russborough these days?
it could be the making of the place. if they can offer themselves as a base for people exploring the greenway, they could rake it in.

i had a conversation with the barman in a pub in dungarvan - the place the U2 fans go to, dillons? - and he said that one thing they'd noticed from the greenway was that it wasn't as seasonal as normal tourist traffic, it was spread a little more evenly through the year. hard to tell whether that'd still be the case with this greenway when it's only a short hop from dublin, but it could lead to russborough becoming a popular cafe stop in that area.

It shuts during the winter months but the place is very well run and has the facilities to cope with a pretty large influx of people. It takes regular bus tours into the house and the coffee shop is half decent. Rarely see cyclists in there in larger groups. The hope is that there could be some connection made via the tunnel but before this latest grant of 6 mill it was shelved because it would eat up a massive chunk of money. The tunnel is already low and there is a lake on the grounds of the house that might cause issues with flooding according to a survey that was carried out.
It's the perfect spot and even more so if they can offer their lands as one of the main stop/start points with changing facilities etc. Depends on where this new money goes

Muahahaha

WestWicklow1 wrote: »

I'm telling you how it is now at the Blessington end with only 6 kms of track.

I have asked people why they don't park in the Avon and they tell me because they would have to pay.

yeah but as said you will always have a section of people who dont want to pay, that isnt everyone though. The Avon is only a few euro anyway and if you buy a coffee which many people would anyway then you dont have to pay for parking. It offers convenience as the trail literally starts there and gives security for cars parked up for several hours.

In any case between private car parks at Russborough and Tulfairris the Avon wont be the only starting point for the loop. Tulfarris are planning their own ebike hire operation with the idea of attracting people to their car park to hire a bike there and begin the loop from that point. Russborough is also likely to set up a bike hire operation and they too have capacity for over 150 cars and acres more space if they wanted to expand on that, they had over a thousand cars in there for the Kalidescope festival just last year. .

When the greenway is complete Id expect the website for it and associated information will show people they can start the loop at several different points, all of which have bike hire and cafe/bar facilities. It wont make much difference where people begin it as no matter where you do its still a 42km loop to cycle back to where you began

WestWicklow1

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah but as said you will always have a section of people who dont want to pay, that isnt everyone though.

Agreed, it's not everyone. It is however enough to be causing a problem at the moment. When, and if, the track is completed, that problem will only increase unless there's free parking.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Avon is only a few euro anyway and if you buy a coffee which many people would anyway then you dont have to pay for parking. It offers convenience as the trail literally starts there and gives security for cars parked up for several hours.

People who arrive daily to spend an hour walking will not spend €15, €18 or €21 per week for parking and won't be buying coffee.

gmacww

Isn't it a terrible state in our country that we cannot discuss or plan anything without a heavy consultation around parking a private car. There is a bus service to Blessington, you can use that. There is also parking in our town which includes a multistory at Dunnes. As has been highlighted there are plenty of parking options dotted around. Irish people have this mentality (it's toxic and thankfully changing) that the car has to come first and everyone has to have the right to park right beside where they are going.

A few pages now about this wonderful greenway and what it would bring not only to the area but to the people, the environment and our mindsets and here we are clogging up the discussion talking about where do I put my car.

JimmiesRustled

gmacww wrote: »

Isn't it a terrible state in our country that we cannot discuss or plan anything without a heavy consultation around parking a private car. There is a bus service to Blessington, you can use that. There is also parking in our town which includes a multistory at Dunnes. As has been highlighted there are plenty of parking options dotted around. Irish people have this mentality (it's toxic and thankfully changing) that the car has to come first and everyone has to have the right to park right beside where they are going.

A few pages now about this wonderful greenway and what it would bring not only to the area but to the people, the environment and our mindsets and here we are clogging up the discussion talking about where do I put my car.

For those that want to cycle the route and maybe aren't that confident on the road or have young children that they don't want cycling on the road, proper infrastructure is required. Be that toilets or car parks.

The N81 isn't the nicest stretch of road to cycle on, especially if you're not overly confident.

You can't currently take a bike on Dublin bus unless its fold up. There's 4 options as I see it:
1) Change public transportation
2) Facilitate private transportation
3) Provide rental bikes along the greenway at various intervals (I think CP Adventure already provide bike hire in the area but it may be more advantageous to have something similar to Dublin Bikes/Bleeperbike)
4) Create a safe way cycle track for those travelling in either direction along the N81.

Obviously if you're walking the route, then none of the above really apply.

magicbastarder

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

4) Create a safe way cycle track for those travelling in either direction along the N81.

this. having a cycling facility that has to be driven to is slightly perverse.

secman

Being a high user of the n81 to Blessington by bike, it can be a daunting journey, whilst I am very comfortable, I know a lot of experienced cyclists who just hate that road, it has a high volume of tipper Trucks with the quarry. Hence I suspect a lot of people will travel by car to cycle the Greenway, so adequate parking and facilities is a must.

WestWicklow1

I believe WCC owns the field opposite the graveyard and adjacent to the Avon. Word is it's to be turned into another graveyard. There was a lot of yellow vests and wellies activity in that field a couple of weeks ago. I think it's big enough for a graveyard and a car park. We'll see.

Mercian Pro

I had a look through the planning documents on the Wicklow CC website. I don't know if I have ever seen such a poorly detailed planning application. Even the project description reads like a sales pitch or, more likely, an application for funding. The map of the route is to quite a small scale, seems to leave out some of the exising route to Russborough and is contradicted by the map in the EIS. As others have pointed out, there is no mention of car parking and other facilities. More worryingly, the final section (if you are going anticlockwise) back into Blessington from the bridge seems to run along a dangerous winding section of the Kilbride Road before you reach the N81 in the town.

Despite all this, the project is a terrific one and, in my opinion, all the potential problems can be resolved with proper leadership, better communication and appropriate consultation. Hopefully more detailed plans will be available soon and it progresses quickly before the funding gets diverted elsewhere.

Muahahaha

Yeah the planning application is definitely lacking detail but I would hope that a fresh one is a lot more comprehensive.

I think should it go ahead it will be an outstanding success. Unlike the Mayo greenway it doesnt take any planning for a huge section of the population.Approx 1,7 million people are living in the greater Dublin area and Blessington is so close to Dublin that you could get up on a Saturday morning, see it is a cracking sunny day and just decide on spec to head out and cycle the greenway for the day.

Its main hurdle is likely to be getting permission from landowners where needed. AFAIK the ESB owns much of the foreshore of the lake but there are parts where it is in private ownership. Thats potentially a big stumbling block, I remember talking to a guy who owned a bike hire operation on the Mayo greenway and he said it took them the best part of a decade to secure all permissions. Similar is happening with the greenway in Kerry at the moment too with about 30 of the 200+ landowners not agreeing to the greenway and court battles going on.

Caquas

Enjoyed a glorious day along this greenway yesterday. It had rained heavily the night before but the surface was generally in good condition, just a few major puddles. No problem for buggies. Parking at Avon Ri was €2.

The stretch along the N81 is a jarring change from the tranquility of the lakeside but it’s only about 200 metres. Didn’t notice any sign of the tunnel under the N81 to Russborough House but it sounds like it could be a great way to avoid a busy road.

One gripe. The walk to Russborough House and back to Avon Ri is 13 Kms. That’s too far for the average family, especially if it is combined with a tour of the House. Is there any talk of a shuttle bus back to the Avon Ri? Or an alternative car park around the halfway mark? The 65 bus stops at Russborough but it is very rare on Sundays.

Peeling1979

Do you’ve a route / Strava Caquas by any chance? Interested in doing it, cheers

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070088#Comment_118070088

One gripe. The walk to Russborough House and back to Avon Ri is 13 Kms. That’s too far for the average family, especially if it is combined with a tour of the House. Is there any talk of a shuttle bus back to the Avon Ri? Or an alternative car park around the halfway mark? The 65 bus stops at Russborough but it is very rare on Sundays.

Havent heard any talk of a shuttle bus but when the full 42km greenway gets completed Id imagine that service might come.

There is a halfway point between the Avon and Russborough House. There is unofficial parking where the greenway crosses the road at that section. its not marked out but there is a layby with space for 4-5 cars and then on busier days more just park on one side of the road. Its a good starting point if you only want a 6-8km return walk rather than the full 13km.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Baltyboys+Bridge/@53.1490317,-6.5476009,447m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48679cc72fecb193:0xa01d66798620f195!8m2!3d53.1486521!4d-6.5391358!5m1!1e4

From that spot you go south for Russborough House (about 3km) and north for the Avon (about 4km)

Out of interest were all the food trucks still in the Avon? There was about 12 of them there throughout the summer and we had some cracking days there during the heatwave.

Caquas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071432#Comment_118071432

Thanks for the parking tip.

I didn’t see food trucks yesterday and the picnic tables were not occupied.

Regrettably, there are no benches or tables along the greenway. I assume that is due to the sad reality that people create a mess at picnic spots.

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071910#Comment_118071910

yeah I suppose the food trucks at the Avon are just a seasonal thing. Hopefully they will be back next summer becasue it was quite the set up with having a choice of lots of different food. They had everything from pizza to Indian to BBQ and then you could eat it on the picnic benches over looking the lake.