Poppy Middle Class Death Cult

FTA69

The purpose of the poppy is not to commemorate the dead of World War One, it's to commemorate all British soldiers living and dead including the ones responsible for massacres in India or those responsibility for Blood Sunday.

I've no bother with people commemorating Irish war dead. I do have a problem with people piggybacking on imperialist British Army regalia that sanitises people who were actively involved in the colonisation of Ireland and other countries.

RobbieTheRobber

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

This post is utter nonsense to be fair. You should wear a dunce's hat for the rest of this thread life.

Please explain your abusive post.

citytillidie

razorblunt wrote: »

Can someone ask James Maclean for his take on this, he normally keeps quiet on the matter.

Who is that?

mzungu

Thread title sounds like an indie band the NME would have championed about 15 years ago.

whisky_galore

RobertKK wrote: »

The only plant I have seen any Irish person wearing has been the shamrock, and Irish people don't care if a fellow Irish person wears it or not.

I see some wearing Easter Lillies, but in finger-counting numbers, usually middle-aged and older men. A bit of a peak in wearers earlier this year for obvious reasons. Rarely see anyone at all with the poppy.

ScumLord

FTA69 wrote: »

I've no bother with people commemorating Irish war dead.

We should get our own thing for wearing so. I think a rhubarb would be good, they're big so everyone will notice.

I only bought a poppy once but stopped once I realised it's not the kind of poppy I was thinking of.

tipptom

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I refused to wear a poppy in remembrance of the 'Great' War. Not because I have republican or shinner sympathies, but because when you really get down to it, it celebrates pointless mass slaughter by the European Aristocrats of millions of men, and it achieved nothing except set up the chess pieces for world war two.

I find these middle class self-consciousness Irish types going on about how they will wear a poppy as "Uncle Frank ran into a German Machine gun" for the same royal family which both armies were fighting for. Go back far enough in our history and we all have an Uncle Frank who was cut down in battle somewhere at sometime. No poppy or lily for them?

Then you get the other excuses in that a kind of class-based territorial pissing is involved. All the Sinn Fein knackers were a Lilly, so in order for Sentanta NiCasbastini to show he is middle class, he will wear a poppy.

You know what. It's all bollox and all you do is show the world that you are a cnut. If you had a brain you would realize it just all feeds into the same royal families who caused it. Rather trying to look inclusive, how about not wearing it and stop celebrating and glorifying mass murder so the same blue bloods can keep their castles and titles.

Do tell us more about these "knackers" you refer to.
What qualifies them to be "knackers" in your eyes and would the middle classes that you hold in equal contempt also qualify as knackers?


Would people who are so uneducated and ignorant to spell "were for wear" and "Lilly for Lily" also qualify as said "knackers".

Mr. FoggPatches

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The purpose of the poppy is not to remember the great war, the purpose is to remember those who fell in that war. a significant number of which were irish. hopefully i can get my hands on one of the nice enamel. and i'm not middle class. neither were most of the soldiers who died. the OP is one of the biggest loads of nonsense i've seen on boards. and thats a pretty low bar.

I never met anyone that died in it. How could I remember them?

NiallBoo

citytillidie wrote: »

Who is that?

Irish footballer, playing for an English club who objected to playing with a poppy on his club jersey (they print them on the jerseys during November).

tomofson

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I refused to wear a poppy in remembrance of the 'Great' War. Not because I have republican or shinner sympathies, but because when you really get down to it, it celebrates pointless mass slaughter by the European Aristocrats of millions of men, and it achieved nothing except set up the chess pieces for world war two.

I find these middle class self-consciousness Irish types going on about how they will wear a poppy as "Uncle Frank ran into a German Machine gun" for the same royal family which both armies were fighting for. Go back far enough in our history and we all have an Uncle Frank who was cut down in battle somewhere at sometime. No poppy or lily for them?

Then you get the other excuses in that a kind of class-based territorial pissing is involved. All the Sinn Fein knackers were a Lilly, so in order for Sentanta NiCasbastini to show he is middle class, he will wear a poppy.

You know what. It's all bollox and all you do is show the world that you are a cnut. If you had a brain you would realize it just all feeds into the same royal families who caused it. Rather trying to look inclusive, how about not wearing it and stop celebrating and glorifying mass murder so the same blue bloods can keep their castles and titles.

The aristocrats are evil there is no doubt, they send young working class and disadvantaged men running into battlefields to die for their hidden agendas.

Fill those same men up with a fake sense of "patriotism" and they will be willing to fight anyone who dares insult their precious queen, even though that same queen would be disgusted and repulsed at even the sheer site of anyone considered a "commoner"

An awkward situation by all means, and a very ironic one.

Roger Hassenforder

tomofson wrote: »

The aristocrats are evil there is no doubt, they send young working class and disadvantaged men running into battlefields to die for their hidden agendas.

An awkward situation by all means, and a very ironic one.

O dear, awkward moment coming up all right...

17% of officers were killed
12% of the "ordinary soldiers" were killed.
Ref

tomofson

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

O dear, awkward moment coming up all right...

17% of officers were killed
12% of the "ordinary soldiers" were killed.
Ref

There was far less officers though wasn't there? so not that awkward still a far cry more working class soldiers died

Pac1Man

I won't wear one because I am not British.

Roger Hassenforder

tomofson wrote: »

There was far less officers though wasn't there? so not that awkward still a far cry more working class soldiers died

you were more likely to be killed if you were an officer...

Fratton Fred

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

you were more likely to be killed if you were an officer...

Wasn't it the 2nd lieutenants who were the first ones up the ladder leading their men in to no man's land?

Roger Hassenforder

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Wasn't it the 2nd lieutenants who were the first ones up the ladder leading their men in to no man's land?

and bigger targets!
due to better diet, on average 5" taller than their troops following behind.
nice article


(we'd better stop though, this doesn't suit the narrative it was the lower classes that were sent to die by the upper class!!)

Junkyard Tom

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ref

From your own link.

'most of the war’s dead were from the working class'.

Also the percentage of officers should be higher because how the blazes could working class men be trusted to charge into machine gun fire all by themselves?

hatrickpatrick

I'm sorry but regardless of any good they may have done at one point or another, I will never speak or think positively of the British Army. They were well known for a penchant for war crimes - Bloody Sunday in Croker was only one example, there were regular massacres of peaceful protesters in the British Empire, with perhaps the most notorious being in India during Ghandi's time. Just a decade ago in Iraq, they threw a young man into the river for the craic as he had been accused of looting, let him drown, and not a single one was convicted of murder or even manslaughter.

Say what you like about their contribution to victory against the Nazis, on the whole the British Army is an absolute disgrace and it gets a free pass from its government for literally every instance of criminality within it, just like the US Army. F*ck 'em.

lazybones32

I don't wear a poppy but not for the same reasons as the op, nor do I look down or insult those who do wear the poppy.

Wearing a piece of fabric doesn't change or legitimise what happened 100 years ago. A lot of people died unnecessarily and a lot of people got seriously f**ked up because of what happened (yet the Spanish flu killed more people than the War)

If someone wants to commemorate those who died in the muddy fields of France or on the sun-baked shores of Gallipoli, I won't make an issue out of it.

On the streets of Dublin, women and girls used harass men who didn't wear a white flower or ribbon, which was a sign that you'd already enlisted or tried to sign up.

Roger Hassenforder

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

From your own link.

'most of the war’s dead were from the working class'.

Also the percentage of officers should be higher because how the blazes could working class men be trusted to charge into machine gun fire all by themselves?

no one is denying they were slaughtered in their millions!

but, the fact remains, there was a better chance of you surviving the war if you were working class, if you were "upper" class, you were more likely to be killed.
it dispels the myth that it was the working class that suffered most. Upper classes suffered disproportionately more!

Your Face

What a tarty original post.

Jimoslimos

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I never mentioned where the money goes. considering there are no great war veterans still around you can hardly expect the money to go to them.

So why keep fundraising then? You can make the argument that Britain was in dire economic straits after 2 world wars and charitable donations were needed at the time, nowadays I don't think so.

NiallBoo wrote: »

Irish footballer, playing for an English club who objected to playing with a poppy on his club jersey (they print them on the jerseys during November).

Username: citytillidie
Location: Derry

Think he knows well who James McClean (the ex-Derry City player) is, James Maclean on the other hand...

NiallBoo wrote: »

It's helping the governments shirk their responsibilities though - letting them get away with not taking care of people who's lives they helped destroy because they needed meat for the grinder.

When you make it normal for charities to carry the burden, then the government can ignore it completely.

This. I vehemently disagree with many of the military conflicts Britain has engaged in over the last few years however if the government sends soldiers into conflict then the state should bear the responsibility of looking after their health, both mental and physical - I think many people would reconsider their views on military involvement in Iraq and the middle east if the true economic cost was known.

Junkyard Tom

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the fact remains, there was a better chance of you surviving the war if you were working class, if you were "upper" class, you were more likely to be killed.

Whatever way you look at it it's bad. People who were supposedly educated and of 'better' stock 'leading' men into almost certain death. Also, it wasn't the working classes who were military strategists or heads of state.

MonsterCookie

FFS not this sh1t again.

its very simple really: no one has to wear one. anyone who choses to wear one or not should be left the phuck alone.

problem solved.

mickrock

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The purpose of the poppy is not to remember the great war, the purpose is to remember those who fell in that war.

The purpose is to remember those who died on the British/Allied side.

What about the millions of poor bastards who died on the other side?

ohnonotgmail

mickrock wrote: »

The purpose is to remember those who died on the British/Allied side.

What about the millions of poor bastards who died on the other side?

what is this post-modern inclusivity ****? can somebody not mourn a particular group of people without getting **** for everybody that died?

weldoninhio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The purpose of the poppy is not to remember the great war, the purpose is to remember those who fell in that war. a significant number of which were irish. hopefully i can get my hands on one of the nice enamel. and i'm not middle class. neither were most of the soldiers who died. the OP is one of the biggest loads of nonsense i've seen on boards. and thats a pretty low bar.

It raises money for the likes of the paras who murdered innocent Irish citizens on Bloody Sunday, soldiers who murdered men, women and children indiscriminately in Iraq and Afghanistan. They should be designated war criminals rather than heroes.

The Hill Billy

Ahhhh... The Annual Poppy thread. I love these. Always gives me the 'warm fuzzies'.

bnt

This year, of all years, I'm determined to find one and wear it in Dublin - if only to emphasise that, 100 years ago, the world didn't revolve around what happened in Dublin over Easter. It was called the Great War for a reason, y'know ...

MilesMorales1

You ever thought of writing a blog for these unusual thoughts OP?

AudreyHepburn

I don't understand why people get so worked about a simple little flower.

Don't wear one if you don't want, it's entirely your own choice. Equally do not presume to look down on those of us who do choose to wear it.

In October of 2014 went on a family trip to the battlefields of Ypres, following the footsteps of my great-grandfather who fought there during the war.

He lost leg but made it home alive. So many of his comrades didn't and I will never forget the rows and rows of white headstones we walked passed around the town of Ypres.

I lost count of how many Irish graves we saw and it made us all realize how lucky our great-grandfather was to have come home.

To my mind those young men deserve to be remembered. That's why I choose to wear the poppy, as is my right. I don't do it to glorify the war or legitimize anything the British did to us as a nation. I do it in remembrance of the thousands of far too young men who lost their lives, some of whom would have be comrades and friends of my great-grandfather.

I think of him too, and how lucky he was to have survived.

Ragnar Lothbrok

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't understand why people get so worked about a simple little flower.

Don't wear one if you don't want, it's entirely your own choice. Equally do not presume to look down on those of us who do choose to wear it.

In October of 2014 went on a family trip to the battlefields of Ypres, following the footsteps of my great-grandfather who fought there during the war.

He lost leg but made it home alive. So many of his comrades didn't and I will never forget the rows and rows of white headstones we walked passed around the town of Ypres.

I lost count of how many Irish graves we saw and it made us all realize how lucky our great-grandfather was to have come home.

To my mind those young men deserve to be remembered. That's why I choose to wear the poppy, as is my right. I don't do it to glorify the war or legitimize anything the British did to us as a nation. I do it in remembrance of the thousands of far too young men who lost their lives, some of whom would have be comrades and friends of my great-grandfather.

I think of him too, and how lucky he was to have survived.

Remembering those who died is worthy enough, but the money you donate to the poppy appeal goes to ex-servicemen from much more recent events. If anyone wants to remember the fallen from World War I, why not organise a commemoration each year along the same lines as the Republican Easter commemorations?

I don't have a problem with anyone commemorating those who died, but I do have a problem with giving money to British ex-servicemen.

sbsquarepants

Poppy Middle Class Death Cult

great name for a band all the same.

Iwasfrozen

I would have went with Middle Class Poppy Death Cult but maybe that's just me.

razorblunt

citytillidie wrote: »

Who is that?

I think he plays for Rangers.

AudreyHepburn

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Remembering those who died is worthy enough, but the money you donate to the poppy appeal goes to ex-servicemen from much more recent events. If anyone wants to remember the fallen from World War I, why not organise a commemoration each year along the same lines as the Republican Easter commemorations?

I don't have a problem with anyone commemorating those who died, but I do have a problem with giving money to British ex-servicemen.

What business is it of yours how some-one chooses to remember or how they spend their money?

What actual difference does make to your life?

LDN_Irish

If only there was some way of remembering our dead relatives without giving money to people who killed Irish civilians recently.

The Hill Billy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't understand why people get so worked about a simple little flower.

Don't wear one if you don't want, it's entirely your own choice. Equally do not presume to look down on those of us who do choose to wear it.

In October of 2014 went on a family trip to the battlefields of Ypres, following the footsteps of my great-grandfather who fought there during the war.

He lost leg but made it home alive. So many of his comrades didn't and I will never forget the rows and rows of white headstones we walked passed around the town of Ypres.

I lost count of how many Irish graves we saw and it made us all realize how lucky our great-grandfather was to have come home.

To my mind those young men deserve to be remembered. That's why I choose to wear the poppy, as is my right. I don't do it to glorify the war or legitimize anything the British did to us as a nation. I do it in remembrance of the thousands of far too young men who lost their lives, some of whom would have be comrades and friends of my great-grandfather.

I think of him too, and how lucky he was to have survived.

Nice post.

As this is AH...

Given that your great-granddad lost his leg - surely you followed in his footstep (singular). :pac:

Beefy78

In seven years in Ireland I've seen seven huge threads on here bemoaning Irish people wearing the poppy, yet I've seen not one Irish person actually wearing the poppy in that time.

The only times I've ever seen a poppy on display over here is the couple of years where I've had one and maybe a few British people passing through the airport. I've never seen them on sale here.

I don't see any reason why an Irish person would wear a poppy. Fair play to them if they do but there's hardly an expectation of it.

tipptom

I would have no problem contributing towards a memorial or a memorial day for the WW1 dead but I think these dead soldiers are shamefully used now to raise money for ex British army servicemen.


The British government and army can pay for their own downtrodden brutal ex army colonial enforcers thanks.

sbsquarepants

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Middle Class Death Cult

Fúck the poppy altogether.

Middle class death cult is a kickass name for a kick ass band:cool:

tipptom

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Fúck the poppy altogether.

Middle class death cult is a kickass name for a kick ass band:cool:

Or a good new name for a reformed "Deathcab for Cutie".

jimgoose

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Fúck the poppy altogether.

Middle class death cult is a kickass name for a kick ass band:cool:

Or an MC. #1%fuckemall. :cool:

Ragnar Lothbrok

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

What business is it of yours how some-one chooses to remember or how they spend their money?

What actual difference does make to your life?

I don't understand how giving money to an organisation that cares for living ex-British servicemen is in any way commemorating the soldiers who died 100 years ago. It's a con job, perpetrated by the Royal British Legion. Commemorate those who died during World War I and remember your great-grandad all you like, but I don't see how donating money to living ex-members of the British Army is achieving that.

I don't suppose it makes any "actual difference to my life" if Irish people choose to wear a poppy. However, I must admit that, as a Republican, it would make me feel quite annoyed that an Irish person who chose to wear a poppy would probably dismiss the idea of wearing an Easter lily, let alone attend a commemoration for those Irish volunteers who died in Easter week 1916.

swimming in a sea

Beefy78 wrote: »

In seven years in Ireland I've seen seven huge threads on here bemoaning Irish people wearing the poppy, yet I've seen not one Irish person actually wearing the poppy in that time.

The only times I've ever seen a poppy on display over here is the couple of years where I've had one and maybe a few British people passing through the airport. I've never seen them on sale here.

I don't see any reason why an Irish person would wear a poppy. Fair play to them if they do but there's hardly an expectation of it.

I think Britain has the bigger problem with the poppy, in the last few years a poppy is forced on every person with a hint of a public persona. Unfortunately a consequence is it gives a soapbox for knuckle draggers like the Irish footballer who makes a big point of not wearing one.

It will be interesting to see what happens this year after the brexit vote.

shaunr68

ClovenHoof wrote: »

celebrates pointless mass slaughter by the European Aristocrats of millions of men, and it achieved nothing except set up the chess pieces for world war two.

The people of Leuven, Dinant and Tamines would probably disagree with your analysis that the war was pointless.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/brycereport.htm

RobbieTheRobber

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I think Britain has the bigger problem with the poppy, in the last few years a poppy is forced on every person with a hint of a public persona. Unfortunately a consequence is it gives a soapbox for knuckle draggers like the Irish footballer who makes a big point of not wearing one.

It will be interesting to see what happens this year after the brexit vote.

James McClean has every right not to be forced to wear an emblem that is wrapped up in the politics of his home. Calling him a knuckle dragger because you disagree is just stupid and disrespectful.

padd b1975

I don't really mind the poppy wearing to be honest.

However anyone wearing a blinged up version with glitter and jewels should be machine gunned on a Normandy beach as far as I'm concerned.

sondagefaux

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Beefy78 wrote: »

In seven years in Ireland I've seen seven huge threads on here bemoaning Irish people wearing the poppy, yet I've seen not one Irish person actually wearing the poppy in that time.

The only times I've ever seen a poppy on display over here is the couple of years where I've had one and maybe a few British people passing through the airport. I've never seen them on sale here.

I don't see any reason why an Irish person would wear a poppy. Fair play to them if they do but there's hardly an expectation of it.

I think Britain has the bigger problem with the poppy, in the last few years a poppy is forced on every person with a hint of a public persona. Unfortunately a consequence is it gives a soapbox for knuckle draggers like the Irish footballer who makes a big point of not wearing one.

It will be interesting to see what happens this year after the brexit vote.

Knuckle draggers like Jon Snow, the English Channel 4 News presenter and journalist, who refuses to wear one on TV because he doesn't like the fact that it's becoming almost compulsory to wear one which, as he argues, undermines the supposed freedom that the people being commemorated are supposed to have fought for.
If veterans of the British army supposedly fought for freedom, then why does exercising that freedom by not wearing a poppy make someone a knuckle dragger?

Beefy78

Double post, soz