Budget 2017:Childcare subsidy

pwurple

Ogham wrote: »

There is some good information on this new Childcare stuff here.

It's available (means tested) for children over 3

I have a huge problem with means testing. I know it's lauded as the cure-all so that people don't think they the wealthy get away with something.

But means-testing is fundamentally flawed.

First of all, it's more expensive and difficult to access than universal systems, meaning those who need it most get less (because the administrative cost of running it means there is less to go around). And lower socio-economic groups often find complex means-testing forms almost impossible to fill out, and embarrassing to have to ask for help with.

Secondly, the cut off points are always going to leave people feeling hard done by.

"Means-tested childcare subsidies, will be based on net parental income, and will be available for children between 6 months and 15 years. Any family with a combined net parental income of less than €47,501 a year will qualify"

So, Bob has an income of 47500, and George has the same income, but got a small bonus last year for picking up the phone outside work, so last year's net combined income is 47600. Bob qualifies for 1000 euro of assistance and George doesn't? ARG.

Ogham

I think one of the motives is to get more childcare providers registered too.

Macha

The NCWI pushed for the payments to go directly to the creches with this reasoning: “We also welcome that payments will be made directly to the service providers as a measure to increase quality and avoid that providers will simply increase costs."

http://www.nwci.ie/index.php?/learn/article/breakthrough_for_childcare_in_budget_2017

meeeeh

As someone who grew up in a system where organised childcare providers are subsidised I agree with the direction the government is going. The last thing you want to do is give money to just anyone who decides they will start minding the kids tomorrow. Surely it is the policy that could improve situation of one parent families and maybe eventually make it worthwhile for them to work. Two parent families where one can stay at home are not a priority and neither they should be so I don't see any point in tax credits. It's a good path to lower the pay discrepancies and progress for women in workforce. I also don't why black market economy or rouge providers should be encouraged by the state so it makes perfect sense to only subsidise registered childcare providers.

It's a start but more money will be needed to make a difference.

cyning

Meeeh just because a childminder isn't registered with tusla doesn't make them black market providers. I have two friends who are registered with the local county childcare committee, have received grants and pay taxes but under this new scheme they are considered unregistered as the scope where you register with tusla is very, very narrow.

meeeeh

cyning wrote: »

Meeeh just because a childminder isn't registered with tusla doesn't make them black market providers. I have two friends who are registered with the local county childcare committee, have received grants and pay taxes but under this new scheme they are considered unregistered as the scope where you register with tusla is very, very narrow.

I would say they will have to change the scope a bit because they will need more providers. As far as I know the shortage of resources is actually rhe main reason for delay in implementation till September. Neither do I think every nanny is on black market. But that still doesn't change the fact that tax credits would mean a lot of state money would end up with uninsured, unvouched minders who forget to pay tax. I have no intention interfering with other people's tax affairs but state can't finance that kind of stuff with subsidies. When you are giving out money you need some sort of oversight how it's being spent.

lazygal

It can't be that difficult to widen the scope. We employ a childminder in our home. We're registered as her employers and we do all the tax related stuff. It would be simply another box to tick if we were able to use the subsidy against all the other pay information and deductions we already take care of. People who do things properly should be able to avail of this.

deisemum

cyning wrote: »

Meeeh just because a childminder isn't registered with tusla doesn't make them black market providers. I have two friends who are registered with the local county childcare committee, have received grants and pay taxes but under this new scheme they are considered unregistered as the scope where you register with tusla is very, very narrow.

I'm a childminder and voluntary registered with my local Childcare Committee and Childminding Ireland. I used to be registered with the HSE (TULSA) and was inspected a number of times but took my name off their register because I didn't want to mind more than 3 preschoolers. I've always been tax compliant.

I'm currently listening to this debate on the Claire Byrne Show and heard that voluntary registered childminders are currently unable to register with TULSA unless they look after 4 or more preschool children. That's cutting out the majority of childminders but even if there are changes that will allow childminders minding 3 or less preschoolers to avail of this subsidy and I re-register with TULSA I'll have no choice but to up my fees.

Weyhey

The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is now carrying out this public consultation on the detail of the scheme’s design. The Department will use survey responses to help refine specific design features as well as to consider options for future development.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/AffordableChildcareScheme

Have your say!

Survey closes Nov 25th.

I have put this in a separate thread on its on and only saw this thread now. I think it is a big enough issue to appear twice.

Ogham

Weyhey wrote: »

The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is now carrying out this public consultation on the detail of the scheme s design. The Department will use survey responses to help refine specific design features as well as to consider options for future development.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/Affor...hildcareScheme

Have your say!

Survey closes Nov 25th.

I have put this in a separate thread on its on and only saw this thread now. I think it is a big enough issue to appear twice.

Here is the correct link for that survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/AffordableChildcareScheme

McGiver

pwurple wrote: »

I have a huge problem with means testing. I know it's lauded as the cure-all so that people don't think they the wealthy get away with something.

But means-testing is fundamentally flawed.

First of all, it's more expensive and difficult to access than universal systems, meaning those who need it most get less (because the administrative cost of running it means there is less to go around). And lower socio-economic groups often find complex means-testing forms almost impossible to fill out, and embarrassing to have to ask for help with.

Secondly, the cut off points are always going to leave people feeling hard done by.

"Means-tested childcare subsidies, will be based on net parental income, and will be available for children between 6 months and 15 years. Any family with a combined net parental income of less than €47,501 a year will qualify"

So, Bob has an income of 47500, and George has the same income, but got a small bonus last year for picking up the phone outside work, so last year's net combined income is 47600. Bob qualifies for 1000 euro of assistance and George doesn't? ARG.

I get your point, it is valid. But in this case the cut-off is gradual. See attached.

My issue is rather with the cut-off value, which seems to be low. Basically, this favours only low income families and the "squeezed-in-the-middle" get nothing. Median gross salary is €32k, so a "typical median family" of two full time working parents earning a median income would have €64k gross income, which is way past the cut-off point in this scheme.

I understand that lower income earners need help the most but it is not fair that middle-income earners are completely left out with no subsidy.
Also, "stay at home mum/dad" families which get a €1100 tax credit (plus €1650 of PAYE credit in a joint taxation scenario) a year and that is a joke.

Summary info about the scheme is here:
http://www.dcya.gov.ie/documents/earlyyears/20161018Budget2017FAQDoc.pdf