Recently started renting new place but found somewhere nicer..

Danger781

Hey folks,

I moved into rented accommodation about 1 month ago or so. Lovely little flat, two bedrooms, but it's a bit out of the way. When I moved in the location made sense because it was about 10 minutes drive to work. However I have been offered a new job which will mean my morning commute increases to about 30 minutes from where I am now.

I was checking my email and just saw a Daft notification for a place nearer to the new job, much more central for the same price that I'm paying here, although it is a 1 bed instead of 2. I'm only using the second bedroom here as an office (I live alone) so only having the one bedroom isn't a big deal. I'll just move my office to the living room.

When I moved in here I paid a full months deposit, plus a month up front. I also paid 200 up front for the oil heating tank to be half filled. My second month of rent is now due also. When I moved in I did not sign a lease. Cash in hand every month, but I do have a rent book for my own personal records. He is not registered with the PRTB.

SO, if I was to go look at this other place and it was offered to me:

1. There was essentially a verbal agreement that I would staying here for at least one year, but again I do not have an official lease. Will I need to forfeit my deposit or how will that work? What about the oil money?

2. I just signed an 18 month contract with Eir for internet, and the Electricity is also in my name. What is the story with these? Will I be liable for cancellation fees on the contract or can it be transferred to the landlords name?

3. Since the tenancy is not registered with the PRTB will that affect me for future renting of accommodation?

cronos

Danger781 wrote: »

Hey folks,

I moved into rented accommodation about 1 month ago or so. Lovely little flat, two bedrooms, but it's a bit out of the way. When I moved in the location made sense because it was about 10 minutes drive to work. However I have been offered a new job which will mean my morning commute increases to about 30 minutes from where I am now.

I was checking my email and just saw a Daft notification for a place nearer to the new job, much more central for the same price that I'm paying here, although it is a 1 bed instead of 2. I'm only using the second bedroom here as an office (I live alone) so only having the one bedroom isn't a big deal. I'll just move my office to the living room.

When I moved in here I paid a full months deposit, plus a month up front. I also paid 200 up front for the oil heating tank to be half filled. My second month of rent is now due also. When I moved in I did not sign a lease. Cash in hand every month, but I do have a rent book for my own personal records. He is not registered with the PRTB.

SO, if I was to go look at this other place and it was offered to me:

1. There was essentially a verbal agreement that I would staying here for at least one year, but again I do not have an official lease. Will I need to forfeit my deposit or how will that work? What about the oil money?

2. I just signed an 18 month contract with Eir for internet, and the Electricity is also in my name. What is the story with these? Will I be liable for cancellation fees on the contract or can it be transferred to the landlords name?

3. Since the tenancy is not registered with the PRTB will that affect me for future renting of accommodation?

for 1

Your not going to get the oil money back unless the landlord or new tennant is very nice. But no one has to give it back to you.

Hard to prove a verbal agreement, probably won't hold you to it. If he's not registered to the PTRB then mention that you will have to contact them if he does not return the deposit, as you will need advice. He is unlikley to want that and will give it to you. Only do that if he's not offering to do it up front as no need to cause a problem.

for 2

Your liable for cancellation fees yes.

It could be transferred to the landlord or a new tenant if they agreed. Don't see why they should though as they don't have to.

You may be able to transfer the account to your new property. Probably your best option if it's possible.

for 3

It makes no difference to you at all. In fact owner occupiers don't have to register with the PTRB at all. I know thats not the case here. Just pointing out it's quite common from the renters side.

Danger781

cronos wrote: »

Your not going to get the oil money back unless the landlord or new tennant is very nice. But no one has to give it back to you.

To be fair he is, but that is the response I expected. I'd even take a percentage of the agreed amount. If you don't ask you don't get I suppose - No harm in trying..

cronos wrote: »

Hard to prove a verbal agreement, probably won't hold you to it. If he's not registered to the PTRB then mention that you will have to contact them if he does not return the deposit, as you will need advice. He is unlikley to want that and will give it to you. Only do that if he's not offering to do it up front as no need to cause a problem.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. He seems totally against the PRTB and registering the tenancy. Too much hassle involved apparently!

cronos wrote: »

Your liable for cancellation fees yes.

It could be transferred to the landlord or a new tenant if they agreed. Don't see why they should though as they don't have to. You may be able to transfer the account to your new property. Probably your best option if it's possible.

Okay cool might be easiest to just transfer the account to the new address with a new package. Should be able to get much better speeds nearer the city as well which would be great..

cronos wrote: »

It makes no difference to you at all. In fact owner occupiers don't have to register with the PTRB at all. I know thats not the case here. Just pointing out it's quite common from the renters side.

Perfect, thanks.

Stoogie

You can have the oil brought with you

Danger781

Stoogie wrote: »

You can have the oil brought with you

The property I'm looking at is gas central heating

4ensic15

You should seek your deposit and some oil money back. Threaten the RTB if no joy.

riclad

IF the Landlord lives in the same house ,he does,nt have to register you
with the prtb, you are not a tenant .Its not the landlords fault you got a new job.Ring up eir ,ask could you move your account to a new adress .
OR ask if theres a cancellation charge.i would just let the landlord have the oil.If you decide to leave.so theres no contract, you could leave,
and the worst that happens is you lose the deposit.eg say to the landlord ,
take the deposit as last months rent.
Maybe the landlord might refund you part of the deposit.
i see no point in threatening the landlord.

Ms Doubtfire1

Presuming you are a tenant and not a licensee, you are under Part 4 - so you can cancel the lease at ANY time giving the proper notice within the first 6 month.Your notice is 28 days.LL is due by law to refund the deposit(or could agree to keep it as last month rent, that can be decided between both of you).
Re the oiL/ Well, maybe the oilcompany will buy it back?

Michael D Not Higgins

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Presuming you are a tenant and not a licensee, you are under Part 4 - so you can cancel the lease at ANY time giving the proper notice within the first 6 month.Your notice is 28 days.LL is due by law to refund the deposit(or could agree to keep it as last month rent, that can be decided between both of you).
Re the oiL/ Well, maybe the oilcompany will buy it back?

It's not a Part 4 tenancy until 6 months have passed. The OP has stated a verbal agreement to one year lease which is still a fixed term even without it in writing.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

You should seek your deposit and some oil money back. Threaten the RTB if no joy.

When you read and like this post op, you may wrongly be under the impression that the RTB is a stick you can threaten the LL. This is misleading advice.

Firstly the LL has a month to register the tenancy and even after that all he has to pay is a late registration fee (€180) to register. If your deposit is more than that, he can just bang off a cheque the day you tell him you are leaving.

Secondly, your tenancy contract can be verbal, and the notice required to end a tenancy of less than 6 months is 28 days, so that pretty much takes care of your deposit.

The oil is yours, if you can siphon it out, presumably you can take it with you but the LL does not have to pay you for it.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

When you read and like this post op, you may wrongly be under the impression that the RTB is a stick you can threaten the LL. This is misleading advice.

Firstly the LL has a month to register the tenancy and even after that all he has to pay is a late registration fee (€180) to register. If your deposit is more than that, he can just bang off a cheque the day you tell him you are leaving.

Secondly, your tenancy contract can be verbal, and the notice required to end a tenancy of less than 6 months is 28 days, so that pretty much takes care of your deposit.

The oil is yours, if you can siphon it out, presumably you can take it with you but the LL does not have to pay you for it.

The landlord is not registered and does not give a written lease. He collects rent in cash. It does not take a genius to work out what he is doing. It costs €25 to go to the RTB. Worth a gamble.

Danger781

This is a granny flat basically. Attached to the landlords house so I guess one could argue it is the same house. In reality is it's own private two bedroom flat. This place has been rented out for the last 5 years and has had 3 previous tenants, none of which have been registered.

He told me straight out this is off-the-books. None of this is registered, and the income is not being declared I assume.

4ensic15

Danger781 wrote: »

This is a granny flat basically. Attached to the landlords house so I guess one could argue it is the same house. In reality is it's own private two bedroom flat. This place has been rented out for the last 5 years and has had 3 previous tenants, none of which have been registered.

He told me straight out this is off-the-books. None of this is registered, and the income is not being declared I assume.

He won't want an outing to the RTB in that case.

Colser

Do you know anyone that would be interested in moving in there?Anyone in work looking for somewhere to live?

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

The landlord is not registered and does not give a written lease. He collects rent in cash. It does not take a genius to work out what he is doing. It costs €25 to go to the RTB. Worth a gamble.

I'm not going to argue with you but it is worth pointing out that the op is only there a month, the LL can register at any time and just pay the late fee, the LL can collect rent in beans if he wants, his tax affairs are not your concern but bare in mind he did supply a rent book, something which is required particularly when rent is not being paid by SO. For less than 6 months, 28 days notice is needed so the deposit is gone, sooooo, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the €25 would be wasted, in fact even a moderate understanding of the situation should suffice. We live in hope.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

I'm not going to argue with you but it is worth pointing out that the op is only there a month, the LL can register at any time and just pay the late fee, the LL can collect rent in beans if he wants, his tax affairs are not your concern but bare in mind he did supply a rent book, something which is required particularly when rent is not being paid by SO. For less than 6 months, 28 days notice is needed so the deposit is gone, sooooo, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the €25 would be wasted, in fact even a moderate understanding of the situation should suffice. We live in hope.

The Ll is not registered. If he has to register, the address goes on the RTB register. He may end up having environmental officers inspecting. His tax affairs are his own concern but the fact he is taking payment in cash means he is trying to minimise the paperwork. The LL will have to appear at an adjudication. All in all it is hassle and expense, even if his tax affairs are pristine. The LL would gain if he gave the o/p even €200 to go away. If his tax affairs are not in order the o/p would be pushing an open door.

Heroditas

Danger781 wrote: »

2. I just signed an 18 month contract with Eir for internet, and the Electricity is also in my name. What is the story with these? Will I be liable for cancellation fees on the contract or can it be transferred to the landlords name?

Dunno about the Eir contract but you can definitely close the electricity account if you're moving address and won't be liable for cancellation fees. They'll simply close the account and you can move the account to your new address

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

The Ll is not registered. If he has to register, the address goes on the RTB register. He may end up having environmental officers inspecting. His tax affairs are his own concern but the fact he is taking payment in cash means he is trying to minimise the paperwork. The LL will have to appear at an adjudication. All in all it is hassle and expense, even if his tax affairs are pristine. The LL would gain if he gave the o/p even €200 to go away. If his tax affairs are not in order the o/p would be pushing an open door.

The OP has confirmed that he is living in part of the LL house and therefore his rent would fall under the rent a room scheme and no tax would be due. He also may be a licensee and not need to be registered with the RTB.

Tigger

Greysen Hallowed Necklace wrote: »

The OP has confirmed that he is living in part of the LL house and therefore his rent would fall under the rent a room scheme and no tax would be due. He also may be a licensee and not need to be registered with the RTB.

While tax may not be due you do have to make a return and claim a exemption

otwb1

4ensic15 wrote:

The Ll is not registered. If he has to register, the address goes on the RTB register. He may end up having environmental officers inspecting.

Never heard of environmental health officers having an interest in private rented property. I'd love to see what's backing this up.

OP, you are there less than a month. Talk to your landlord and give him/her notice and move out. If you want to move straight away instead of giving notice then it'd be fair enough to lose the deposit.

davo10

otwb1 wrote: »

Never heard of environmental health officers having an interest in private rented property. I'd love to see what's backing this up.

OP, you are there less than a month. Talk to your landlord and give him/her notice and move out. If you want to move straight away instead of giving notice then it'd be fair enough to lose the deposit.

I wondered about the EHO myself, I just assumed the poster is confused about the situation. The rest of his post just amounts to extortion.

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

While tax may not be due you do have to make a return and claim a exemption

Which you would be doing next year in your tax return not at the end of the first months rent.

spaceHopper

Look you made an agreement, why not keep it, half an hour commute is not bad.

Danger781

spaceHopper wrote: »

Look you made an agreement, why not keep it, half an hour commute is not bad.

If I'm given the opportunity to live somewhere nicer and closer to work for the same price that I'm paying now, why would I not take that opportunity?

Seems like a bit of an odd mindset...

davo10

Danger781 wrote: »

If I'm given the opportunity to live somewhere nicer and closer to work for the same price that I'm paying now, why would I not take that opportunity?

Seems like a bit of an odd mindset...

Not as odd as expecting to get oil money and deposit back when leaving one month into a one year lease without notice.

Danger781

davo10 wrote: »

Not as odd as expecting to get oil money and deposit back when leaving one month into a one year lease without notice.

1. I never said I wasn't going to give notice. Do not put words in my mouth. My LL has been nothing but fair with me so far so I would offer the same treatment in return.

2. I never said I expected money back. I asked the question because I didn't know what I was to entitled to, if I was entitled to anything at all. In my first post I asked straight out if I need to forfeit my deposit.

3. I asked about the oil because it was essentially a business transaction. I am not going to be able to make use so I was curious if I could be reimbursed for it. That's all this was. The feedback provided by the good folks here is that I've probably lost out on it, but I may be able to come to an agreement with the LL.

4ensic15

otwb1 wrote: »

Never heard of environmental health officers having an interest in private rented property. I'd love to see what's backing this up.

OP, you are there less than a month. Talk to your landlord and give him/her notice and move out. If you want to move straight away instead of giving notice then it'd be fair enough to lose the deposit.

They can go into all rented dwellings. The vast majority of the dwellings they go into are private property. they don't bother their own employers, the Councils too much.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

They can go into all rented dwellings. The vast majority of the dwellings they go into are private property. they don't bother their own employers, the Councils too much.

Isn't that just when property is rented to tenants in receipt of rental benefits from the local council/dept of social welfare, not private tenants like the op?

davo10

Danger781 wrote: »

1. I never said I wasn't going to give notice. Do not put words in my mouth. My LL has been nothing but fair with me so far so I would offer the same treatment in return.

2. I never said I expected money back. I asked the question because I didn't know what I was to entitled to, if I was entitled to anything at all. In my first post I asked straight out if I need to forfeit my deposit.

3. I asked about the oil because it was essentially a business transaction. I am not going to be able to make use so I was curious if I could be reimbursed for it. That's all this was. The feedback provided by the good folks here is that I've probably lost out on it, but I may be able to come to an agreement with the LL.

The "transaction" was between you and the oil company.

Danger781

davo10 wrote: »

The "transaction" was between you and the oil company.

No, the transaction was between me and my landlord. He bought the oil from the oil company and I reimbursed him for the cost of it. Since he will be keeping the oil when I move (Assuming I end up moving sooner rather than later), I was going to discuss him with a possible fraction of the cost in reimbursement. The decision is his at the end of the day. I can't force him to give me money back for it.

dissed doc

I'd say you should go in, all guns blazing talking about rights and entitlements and threats about the RTB. That is the best way to get an amicable solution to you wanting to break a lease having only just moved in.

Also, by threatening the landlord with legalities, tax issues (which he may be completely compliant with) you will also get a special reference letter. Your next landlord will then know that you might want to leave after a few weeks in, just in case you find an even nicer place again, so they will be much more compliant with your demands.