BAMMA 27 / Bellator 169 - 16th December, 3Arena

Gumbi

InstantMMA wrote: »

Fair point, however promotion is such a huge part of the game these days and the event was a sell out so in that sense I guess you could argue he's doing the right thing.

To co-main event in your home country under a huge banner such as Bellator's must bear a huge amount of pressure. Taking that into consideration I think James performed quite well and it will stand with him going forward. I'm not trying to sugar coat his performance or career to date but I like to give a man so young the benefit of the doubt until they have fully developed into their bodies and skill set.

One could argue that without a more developed skill set he shouldn't have been given such a stage. ie The benefit of the doubt has been willingly circumvented by being put in that position. Regardless, I don't want to get into it. He's a good fighter with a bright future.

For those worrying about Tuke's chin, sometimes people just get caught. I've not seen the fight yet myself though (any word on how best to access them?).

califano

Watched a re-run of the Bellator card this morning but Tukes fight wasnt on it. Wonder when will this be available to see.

califano

califano wrote: »

Watched a re-run of the Bellator card this morning but Tukes fight wasnt on it. Wonder when will this be available to see.

I watched some of Bellator last night Sineads fight was on it and she looked fairly good but the girl she was fighting looked very bad. Tukes fight wasn't on it.

califano

Deleted User wrote: »

I watched some of Bellator last night Sineads fight was on it and she looked fairly good but the girl she was fighting looked very bad. Tukes fight wasn't on it.

Yeah must have watched the same thing. Sineads opponent was very poor but i suppose you can only beat whats in front of you.

califano

califano wrote: »

Yeah must have watched the same thing. Sineads opponent was very poor but i suppose you can only beat whats in front of you.

Yeah I was wondering will Sinead get the call for the UFC? I mean you see women in UFC with 2-1 records at times, 4-0 and being Irish if she does well they can promote her a bit. If UFC come to Dublin next year she might get the call hopefully.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Gamebred

The 2 guys Gallagher has fought in Bellator are 2 of the worst pro's ive ever seen in my life they literally offered nothing your man last night swung like a wild man for a round with the most horiffic striking ive ever seen, Gallagher needs so much work on his striking he cant box, cant cut off the cage cant counter punch always been a fan of his grappling skills, they really need to keep giving him these lads because he will get exposed and ko'd if he fights an actual pro.

Subcomandante Marcos

On Tukes fight not being in the broadcast. It wasn't actually a Bellator fight at all, he's signed to BAMMA.

Bellator videoed it and would have used it in their broadcast if they needed to fill time between fights, so if the first 3 fights were all early KO's they would have played the Tuke fight to fill out the time slot, the same way the UFC will sometimes show an early prelim fight on the main card to kill time.

It was 20 seconds of amateur muck anyway.

wonderfullife

Recent events I feel have exposed the down-side to Conor getting his team-mates opportunities and something Kavanagh needs to take an honest look at.

Getting people in the door at top promotions like the UFC and Bellator is well and good but if they are truly not at the required level or not ready, then you're legitimately putting their health, well-being and future career at risk.

Charlie Ward is the shining example. Given the year he had, the mental load he had to deal with coming out of the Carvahlo fight and his inexperience as a pro, it was surely too soon for his UFC debut.

Let's say he stayed domestic and fought maybe one more fight in 2016 in BAMMA and 2 or 3 more fights in 2017 and went on a tear, then he'd merit the shot and Conor's influence would have gotten him it.

He got hurt and hurt bad in that fight. He took some serious shots.

Peter Queally was one visa issue away from fighting Tim Means on UFC 202. When that actually sinks in, it's actually crazy. Tim Means has some legit power in his hands and feet and is a grizzly veteran. Sure, Queally might have rose to the occasion but the likelihood would have been a seriously bad night.

Dylan Tuke and Pikeman had no business being on the Main Card of a Bellator Event just yet - even a domestic show. And I'm a huge fan of both. I was gutted to not be there but I'm a fan of both guys.

There is a bucket-load of potential in SBG. And I've no doubt a couple will have very successful careers in the UFC and Bellator.

But don't pitch them in until they are truly proven on the domestic scene and ready.

More to the point, I don't care how much influence Conor has .....if he keeps giving the UFC or Bellator guys who are getting KO'd stiff and choked unconscious and dominated, they will eventually say "Sod off Conor we're not signing any more of these".

He'll lose his influence if he they continue to mis-use it.

Gumbi

Gamebred wrote: »

The 2 guys Gallagher has fought in Bellator are 2 of the worst pro's ive ever seen in my life they literally offered nothing your man last night swung like a wild man for a round with the most horiffic striking ive ever seen, Gallagher needs so much work on his striking he cant box, cant cut off the cage cant counter punch always been a fan of his grappling skills, they really need to keep giving him these lads because he will get exposed and ko'd if he fights an actual pro.

His first few fights weren't very different. I think he beat a decent guy in the north actually, but for his debut he fought guy who he had already subbed in one round as an ammy the year prior. (So what's the point of fighting again??) I fought him and subbed him... He's a good boxer with basically zero ground/grappling.

So ya, I don't know, I'm personally against people being given "the big show" on a silver platter if you haven't proved yourself in some respectable sense beforehand.

I mean, he is a decent fighter, his jitz is high level and he seems to reliably be able to take the fight to the mat when he wants, but he talks a big game and his striking is more style than substance.

Wheeliebin30

How did kiefer crosbie look?

Killergreene

Gallagher looked like An amateur. He has no business being in the top tier. He's a few years away from that level, which he may or may not reach. It's no wonder he didn't sign with ufc, he would have been badly exposed by now. He has the body of a 15 year old boy.

14murphy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How did kiefer crosbie look?

From where I was sitting it looked like he lost the first round. His opponent controlled him well on the ground and really didn't want to stand with him. I actually thought the ref stopped it in the 2nd due to his opponent not protecting himself but someone told me it was a triangle. He looked strong and confident standing up and finished well.

moneyman

wonderfullife wrote: »

Recent events I feel have exposed the down-side to Conor getting his team-mates opportunities and something Kavanagh needs to take an honest look at.

Getting people in the door at top promotions like the UFC and Bellator is well and good but if they are truly not at the required level or not ready, then you're legitimately putting their health, well-being and future career at risk.

Charlie Ward is the shining example. Given the year he had, the mental load he had to deal with coming out of the Carvahlo fight and his inexperience as a pro, it was surely too soon for his UFC debut.

Let's say he stayed domestic and fought maybe one more fight in 2016 in BAMMA and 2 or 3 more fights in 2017 and went on a tear, then he'd merit the shot and Conor's influence would have gotten him it.

He got hurt and hurt bad in that fight. He took some serious shots.

Peter Queally was one visa issue away from fighting Tim Means on UFC 202. When that actually sinks in, it's actually crazy. Tim Means has some legit power in his hands and feet and is a grizzly veteran. Sure, Queally might have rose to the occasion but the likelihood would have been a seriously bad night.

Dylan Tuke and Pikeman had no business being on the Main Card of a Bellator Event just yet - even a domestic show. And I'm a huge fan of both. I was gutted to not be there but I'm a fan of both guys.

There is a bucket-load of potential in SBG. And I've no doubt a couple will have very successful careers in the UFC and Bellator.

But don't pitch them in until they are truly proven on the domestic scene and ready.

More to the point, I don't care how much influence Conor has .....if he keeps giving the UFC or Bellator guys who are getting KO'd stiff and choked unconscious and dominated, they will eventually say "Sod off Conor we're not signing any more of these".

He'll lose his influence if he they continue to mis-use it.

I mean, you're not far wrong, but I presume you don't train in SBG? You are the most irrationally anti-SBG poster I've ever seen. This is going back years.

EDIT: Oops, quoted the wrong person. That was meant to quote Marcos. Wonderfullife is the least anti-SBG person I've came across.

Killergreene

moneyman wrote: »

I mean, you're not far wrong, but I presume you don't train in SBG? You are the most irrationally anti-SBG poster I've ever seen. This is going back years.

Years? The dude only been posting here a few weeks. Anyway he's right. The sbg crew are very poor apart from Conor and gunnar. The way they present themselves you'd swear they were the only show in town. They have a pathway to the big stage but honestly very few of them are worthy of gracing that stage. Pendred was exposed badly. Ash the bash is one loss away from being cut. Wheelie bin actually was OK but probably not much beyond a gatekeeper.

Not that team ryano is much better. I actually think seery was unfortunate in that the ufc came too late in his career. I actually saw redmond being refused entry to ufc belfast when he tried to go in via the guest entrance. Had to kip in with the rest of the mucksavages and queue up like a pleb. Says a lot about ufc. You'd have to wonder does Dana white even know who most of the Irish stable are outside Connor and gunnar. I digress. Irish mma is still light-years away from being ufc standard outside of Connor and gun.

califano

moneyman wrote: »

I mean, you're not far wrong, but I presume you don't train in SBG? You are the most irrationally anti-SBG poster I've ever seen. This is going back years.

Hes only posting in mma 5 months. I'm not sure what you mean by anti-sbg, he took 2 busses out to visit sbg recently.

Gamebred

There is no ''Ufc level'' its a complete myth, now a days the UFC is full of absolute bums they have a card every week so they need to filler.

Wheeliebin30

Killergreene wrote: »

Years? The dude only been posting here a few weeks. Anyway he's right. The sbg crew are very poor apart from Conor and gunnar. The way they present themselves you'd swear they were the only show in town. They have a pathway to the big stage but honestly very few of them are worthy of gracing that stage. Pendred was exposed badly. Ash the bash is one loss away from being cut. Wheelie bin actually was OK but probably not much beyond a gatekeeper.

Not that team ryano is much better. I actually think seery was unfortunate in that the ufc came too late in his career. I actually saw redmond being refused entry to ufc belfast when he tried to go in via the guest entrance. Had to kip in with the rest of the mucksavages and queue up like a pleb. Says a lot about ufc. You'd have to wonder does Dana white even know who most of the Irish stable are outside Connor and gunnar. I digress. Irish mma is still light-years away from being ufc standard outside of Connor and gun.

Goes to show how lucky we are to have conor.
But think you're been harsh.

Hoolahan, Joe Duffy, pendred all showed they can hold their own in the ufc, yeah never gonna be champions but weren't shown up to be amateurs.

That goes for seery too.

scudzilla

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Goes to show how lucky we are to have conor.
But think you're been harsh.

Hoolahan, Joe Duffy, pendred all showed they can hold their own in the ufc, yeah never gonna be champions but weren't shown up to be amateurs.

That goes for seery too.

Hold their own in the mid/lower ranks, that's about it, none of them would have made much of an impression with the Top 5, possible Top 10, guys in respective divisions

Wheeliebin30

scudzilla wrote: »

Hold their own in the mid/lower ranks, that's about it, none of them would have made much of an impression with the Top 5, possible Top 10, guys in respective divisions

So basically ufc standard then just not top of the pile?

darced

This post has been deleted.

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

Hold their own in the mid/lower ranks, that's about it, none of them would have made much of an impression with the Top 5, possible Top 10, guys in respective divisions

Is there no chance with some improvement of Joe Duffy maybe challenging for a title in the future in the UFC? I know he isn't up there now but I wouldn't write him off, he looks good on his feet and on the ground.

scudzilla

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So basically ufc standard then just not top of the pile?

I wouldn't even say half of the fighters the UFC sign are of the standard required, to me ti seems that they'll just sign fighters on 2/3 fight contracts for teh sake of it sometimes, then out of 10 fighters they may unearth a gem, or someone who could break into the Top 5.

They have so many cards to fill now, averaging 1 a week so have to get fresh blood from somewhere, say they're fighting in the arse end of knowhere, of course they're gonna sign up a few local fighters, good enough or not, to help them shift a few more tickets

dulux99

I honestly don't know what planet the likes of Crosbie and Gallagher live on. Theyre just as brash as McGregor (by that I mean they steal all of his mannerisms and phrases) despite having none of the skills or success to back it up. Crosbie especially, I'm pretty sure he's older than McGregor and still talks about "taking over the game". It's not gonna happen mate. He had an instagram pic up of a envelope full of cash - there was about €1200 in it.... Are we meant to be impressed by that?

Subcomandante Marcos

dulux99 wrote: »

I honestly don't know what planet the likes of Crosbie and Gallagher live on. Theyre just as brash as McGregor (by that I mean they steal all of his mannerisms and phrases) despite having none of the skills or success to back it up. Crosbie especially, I'm pretty sure he's older than McGregor and still talks about "taking over the game". It's not gonna happen mate. He had an instagram pic up of a envelope full of cash - there was about €1200 in it.... Are we meant to be impressed by that?

Hey man, €1,200 for 8+ weeks works? Not bad pay, in India...

Gamebred

dulux99 wrote: »

I honestly don't know what planet the likes of Crosbie and Gallagher live on. Theyre just as brash as McGregor (by that I mean they steal all of his mannerisms and phrases) despite having none of the skills or success to back it up. Crosbie especially, I'm pretty sure he's older than McGregor and still talks about "taking over the game". It's not gonna happen mate. He had an instagram pic up of a envelope full of cash - there was about €1200 in it.... Are we meant to be impressed by that?

Notice the same but look live and let live if thats what make them happy fair play let them portray their image does no harm to me or you I know Kiefer a long time thats all an act, appears Gallagher is taking the McGregor handbook on fight promotion and running with it, god bless them and their 200 quid Gucci runners reality will bring them down.

moneyman

Killergreene wrote: »

Gallagher looked like An amateur. He has no business being in the top tier. He's a few years away from that level, which he may or may not reach. It's no wonder he didn't sign with ufc, he would have been badly exposed by now. He has the body of a 15 year old boy.

A couple of days ago you didn't know anyone on the card and were suggesting that this might be a waste of time, asking if it would be any good. James has a long, long way to go but you're in no position to comment and be taken seriously.

moneyman

califano wrote: »

Hes only posting in mma 5 months. I'm not sure what you mean by anti-sbg, he took 2 busses out to visit sbg recently.

I quoted the wrong person

Was meant to quote Marcos.

Wonderfullife is the most pro-SBG guy I've ever seen. I mean that in a good way!

EagererBeaver

moneyman wrote: »

A couple of days ago you didn't know anyone on the card and were suggesting that this might be a waste of time, asking if it would be any good. James has a long, long way to go but you're in no position to comment and be taken seriously.

Sigh. This attitude is tiresome.

moneyman

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Sigh. This attitude is tiresome.

I'd say coming in and slating a kid is more tiresome.

EagererBeaver

Based off performances to date, pretending Gallagher has come remotely close to living up to the hype is delusional. The image is projects through is social media is all well and good, as long as its backed up, which it really hasn't been to date. His post fight interview was cringe worthy in the extreme.

These are in no way unfair criticisms.

callaway92

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Based off performances to date, pretending Gallagher has come remotely close to living up to the hype is delusional. The image is projects through is social media is all well and good, as long as its backed up, which it really hasn't been to date. His post fight interview was cringe worthy in the extreme.

These are in no way unfair criticisms.

Any link to the post fight interview?

The kid comes across as such a dork

MagicIRL

Lads, James is 20 years old. It is completely reasonable to believe he can be every bit as great as he claims if he continues to put in the work.

You'd swear he was the finished product and entering retirement ages reading this thread.

dulux99

MagicIRL wrote: »

Lads, James is 20 years old. It is completely reasonable to believe he can be every bit as great as he claims if he continues to put in the work.

You'd swear he was the finished product and entering retirement ages reading this thread.

This comparison may be lost on some but if Adnan Januzaj had the ego of Cristiano Ronaldo he would rightfully be criticised, similar to Gallaghers McGregor-esque bravado

MagicIRL

dulux99 wrote: »

This comparison may be lost on some but if Adnan Januzaj had the ego of Cristiano Ronaldo he would rightfully be criticised, similar to Gallaghers McGregor-esque bravado

MMA fighters don't peak at 20 though. You might not like his bravado, but it's foolish to believe he doesn't have the MMA world in front of him still. He has so much time on his side to get better and better.

Maybe he will eclipse McGregor, maybe he won't. But to write him off now, after two Bellator fights, aged 20, is bizarre.

Anyway, as the saying goes, it's not the critic who counts...

MrStuffins

At the age of 22, McGregor was 4-2 and as brash as they come.

Writing Gallagher off at the age of 20! Absolute madness!!

dulux99

I haven't really written him off. But the facts are he's fought two absolute cans in bellator so far and he's looked distinctly average in both outings. I'm not saying he can't improve in the future, he obviously can. By the way he talks about himself, you'd be expecting to see someone like a young Rory Macdonald, going in and absolutely destroying top opponents, instead hes squeaking by nobodies . Rhys McKee - now there's an impressive prospect!

finglashoop

At a stage now where talking is more important than fighting

darced

This post has been deleted.

Johner

Any videos of the Tuke KO?

califano

Johner wrote: »

Any videos of the Tuke KO?

There is a chance it will never be shown(if it even exists but im sure it does). Cameron Else and his entourage is on twitter lobbying anyone whos anyone incl Coker for the replay but hes getting stonewalled. What he has been told by the production involved in filming the Bellator main is that even though he was technically on the card it wasnt filmed. Other than that complete silence in answer to requests about the video of the fight.

dashoonage

erm tis on bellators facebook page lads..

BOHtox

https://www.facebook.com/BellatorMMA/?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pg/BellatorMMA/videos/?ref=page_internal
It doesn't embed properly but here's the Tuke KO

EagererBeaver

MagicIRL wrote: »

Lads, James is 20 years old. It is completely reasonable to believe he can be every bit as great as he claims if he continues to put in the work.

You'd swear he was the finished product and entering retirement ages reading this thread.

Nobody is doubting his talent or burying him. The fact of the matter is, he talks an awful lot and to date, any reasonable person (in my humble opinion of course) has yet to back it up against poor opposition. If you're going to talk about yourself as much as he does, you have to justify it with performances.

The SBG connection and McGregor comparisons have got him a significant push - if he's to make the most of it, he might be better off putting the head down rather than spouting off so much.

Den_M

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Nobody is doubting his talent or burying him. The fact of the matter is, he talks an awful lot and to date, any reasonable person (in my humble opinion of course) has yet to back it up against poor opposition. If you're going to talk about yourself as much as he does, you have to justify it with performances

And if he wasn't talking at all we'd have the likes of you in here whining that he should be doing more promotion and trying to drum up interest levels. Let the kid alone - he's young and ambitious and winning fights. I was in the 3Arena last weekend, he was impressive and looked comfortable in the spotlight. What more do you want, were you there? He's one of us in a relatively new sport doing his best, give him a break FFS

Subcomandante Marcos

Den_M wrote: »

. I was in the 3Arena last weekend, he was impressive and looked comfortable in the spotlight.

I was there too, 50 feet from the cage and he was hesitant to engage, looked very uncomfortable on his feet and struggled to put away someone who has no business fighting for an organisation like Bellator.
And then he went on a rant in the post fight interview as if he'd dominated a top 5 guy and was impressive in his fight.

He's a long, Long way from beating anyone in the business end of his division and I hope for his sake that Bellator keep feeding him nobodies for the next few years because besides a solid grappling base he's got a lot of development to do.

FollowMyWay

Talking **** is part of the game whether you back it up or not. People shouldn't expect too much from a 20 year old just cause they talk a big game, he badly needs to improve his stand up and fighting better opponents probably isn't the best way to go about it. I'd rather see him take 2 fights a year max and work it in the gym.

Gamebred

FollowMyWay wrote: »

Talking **** is part of the game whether you back it up or not. People shouldn't expect too much from a 20 year old just cause they talk a big game, he badly needs to improve his stand up and fighting better opponents probably isn't the best way to go about it. I'd rather see him take 2 fights a year max and work it in the gym.

If you talk you better back it up nobody will give a **** about you seen as your word means nothing so the fans are right to expect fireworks, if hes stepped up in class he will be exposed very quickly if your selling a fight to them on the pretenses your going to wreck these guys like he says nobody is buying the bs next time, hes fought tin cans for his first few pro fights which I have no problem with hes inexperienced and needs cage time but he needs to cool off the garbage talk and get a boxing coach.

FollowMyWay

Gamebred wrote: »

If you talk you better back it up nobody will give a **** about you seen as your word means nothing so the fans are right to expect fireworks, if hes stepped up in class he will be exposed very quickly if your selling a fight to them on the pretenses your going to wreck these guys like he says nobody is buying the bs next time, hes fought tin cans for his first few pro fights which I have no problem with hes inexperienced and needs cage time but he needs to cool off the garbage talk and get a boxing coach.

Worked for Chael but it's a bit different for him as he was good at it and could fight to a certain standard. He still needs cage time but he needs training too, can't be taking more than two fights each year for the next two if he wants to improve his striking drastically. I don't think he should be talking **** but it probably helps him or he's trying to sell his rubbish fights which at his age he doesn't need as nobody outside Ireland cares about him anyway, so the talk won't have any effect, people who don't know him will see his record here him talk ****, get excited, tune in and be majorly disappointed.

In short, I agree, shut up and learn to strike but long time MMA fans shouldn't be swayed by talk, but what they see and we ain't see much.

Any videos of Tuke getting KO'd? The links above aren't working for me.