Refused Insurance.

bluezulu49

My son has just returned from a six month trip abroad. While he was away his car insurance expired and he did not renew it. ( Expired late March 2016). When he contacted his insurance company last Tuesday he was refused insurance based on the age of the car (2001 car).

He received a declined letter from his insurance company stating that they preferred to decline to quote as he was "outside their normal acceptance criteria"

His is 27 years old with a full licence and insurance in his own name since March 2009 and with no claims.

Will he have to declare this refusal for the rest of his days?

Main problem with this is that online quotes seem to be unavailable.

TOMP

Government needs to step in to rein back car insurance companies, who just make up the rules as the go along

Sue Pa Key Pa

His last insurer are obliged to offer him a quotation. Remind them of that......strongly.....

lollpop

He wasn't refused insurance, he was refused a quote. There is a subtle difference. I also have an older car and when I was calling for quotes I advised that I had been refused quotes elsewhere due to the age of the car. The companies I spoke to said that I don't have to declare that to them as it's just a quote refusal not insurance refusal.

Axa, the AA and quote devil were the companies who would quote for cars older than 15 years if it's any help.

tinkerbell2310

bluezulu49 wrote: »

My son has just returned from a six month trip abroad. While he was away his car insurance expired and he did not renew it. ( Expired late March 2016). When he contacted his insurance company last Tuesday he was refused insurance based on the age of the car (2001 car).

He received a declined letter from his insurance company stating that they preferred to decline to quote as he was "outside their normal acceptance criteria"

His is 27 years old with a full licence and insurance in his own name since March 2009 and with no claims.

Will he have to declare this refusal for the rest of his days?

Main problem with this is that online quotes seem to be unavailable.

I've a provisional licence and bought a 05 golf last month and not one insurance company will insure me. Basically was told car needs to be leas than 10 years old by someone high up in Munster insurance.

coolbeans

tinkerbell2310 wrote: »

bluezulu49 wrote: »

My son has just returned from a six month trip abroad. While he was away his car insurance expired and he did not renew it. ( Expired late March 2016). When he contacted his insurance company last Tuesday he was refused insurance based on the age of the car (2001 car).

He received a declined letter from his insurance company stating that they preferred to decline to quote as he was "outside their normal acceptance criteria"

His is 27 years old with a full licence and insurance in his own name since March 2009 and with no claims.

Will he have to declare this refusal for the rest of his days?

Main problem with this is that online quotes seem to be unavailable.

I've a provisional licence and bought a 05 golf last month and not one insurance company will insure me. Basically was told car needs to be leas than 10 years old by someone high up in Munster insurance.

Get a licence?

colm_mcm

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

His last insurer are obliged to offer him a quotation. Remind them of that......strongly.....

Upon renewal, no?

ravima

Last insurer MUST quote.

Phone again and demand to speak with supervisor

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

tinkerbell2310

coolbeans wrote: »

Get a licence?

I'm working on that.

darlett

I think the ongoing insurance issues are a much bigger problem than government or indeed anyone of significance in opposition are acknowledging. Or do most of the people protesting water charges have cars less than 10 years of age? Either way I know which one puts me more out of pocket. As a result of not been able to afford a newer car, yet not living somewhere which has 1% of the public transport I would need to function as a citizen I have been taxed and insured through my back passage. I believe we should be bothering our policitians a hell of a lot more on this subject than others. Unlike other countries, car insurance is compulsory and if we don't want people going 'under the radar' a lot more needs to be done to allow people get insurance. This 10 year rule of thumb is a complete copout.

If cars over 10 years are so uninsurable, maybe they should be exempt from the NCT.

Anyway OP, the good news is to your question "Will he have to declare this refusal for the rest of his days?" the answer is no. It's of no interest to his next insurer that he got turned down by someone else for an old car. I eventually got my insurance renewal from Allianz. And when when I later moved my house insurance from my old insurers I told them why.

bluezulu49

bluezulu49 wrote: »

My son has just returned from a six month trip abroad. While he was away his car insurance expired and he did not renew it. ( Expired late March 2016). When he contacted his insurance company last Tuesday he was refused insurance based on the age of the car (2001 car).

He received a declined letter from his insurance company stating that they preferred to decline to quote as he was "outside their normal acceptance criteria"

His is 27 years old with a full licence and insurance in his own name since March 2009 and with no claims.

Will he have to declare this refusal for the rest of his days?

Main problem with this is that online quotes seem to be unavailable.

Online quotes are a real pain. I think the big problem is the age of the car. Get him to either contact his old insurers again or go to a broker. Good Luck.

Tzardine

ravima wrote: »

Last insurer MUST quote.

This is a myth.

Insurers are private companies and can decline business as they wish.

Sue Pa Key Pa

lollpop wrote: »

He wasn't refused insurance, he was refused a quote. There is a subtle difference..

He had a previous insurer, they are obliged to offer him a quotation, he is not obliged to accept it. What is your point?

Sue Pa Key Pa

Tzardine wrote: »

This is a myth.

Insurers are private companies and can decline business as they wish.

Insurers are obliged to offer a quotation to someone where they are the last insurer. Your myth is a myth

Sue Pa Key Pa

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Insurers are obliged to offer a quotation to someone where they are the last insurer. Your myth is a myth

But he had a break in his insurance. That would make a difference.

Tzardine

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Insurers are obliged to offer a quotation to someone where they are the last insurer. Your myth is a myth

Would you care to provide any evidence of this ?

Sue Pa Key Pa

Tzardine wrote: »

Would you care to provide any evidence of this ?

http://www.insuranceireland.eu/consumer-information/general-non-life-insurance/motor

Sue Pa Key Pa

Deleted User wrote: »

But he had a break in his insurance. That would make a difference.

No, once they are the last insurer. Also, if they offer an outrageous figure equal to a declinature, they can be called to book on that. Having said that, it still might not be pretty.

Tzardine

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

http://www.insuranceireland.eu/consumer-information/general-non-life-insurance/motor

"......Where an individual has held a policy within the previous three years, the insurance company concerned is obliged to provide the individual with a quotation. Again this is subject to the proviso that refusals have been received from three insurers (of which the previous insurer may be one).

The only grounds on which an insurer can refuse cover are where to provide insurance would be contrary to public interest....."

They can refuse a quote and its up to you to go back with letters from other insurers declining cover. And even when forced, they can just quote you €20,000 anyway.

ted1

More bad news is that he's probably lost his NCB as he has been without insurance for more than 6 months

Sue Pa Key Pa

Tzardine wrote: »

They can refuse a quote and its up to you to go back with letters from other insurers declining cover. And even when forced, they can just quote you €20,000 anyway.

In practice, when you make an experienced handler aware that they are the last insurer, they will offer a quote without the need for the 3 declinatures. Also, they can't quote silly money

rhino1

Define crazy money ?Insurance companies seem to be able to quote whatever they like without any comeback on them.

darlett

ted1 wrote: »

More bad news is that he's probably lost his NCB as he has been without insurance for more than 6 months

No. I'm sure it has to be over 12 months. Unless I was lucky in that regard.

ASOT

ted1 wrote: »

More bad news is that he's probably lost his NCB as he has been without insurance for more than 6 months

Thats just nonsense; his bonus would last two years.

darlett wrote: »

No. I'm sure it has to be over 12 months. Unless I was lucky in that regard.

Again it would be two years before the bonus is lost.

darlett

ASOT wrote: »

It would be two years before the bonus is lost.

Ah good, thanks for the clarification.

bluezulu49

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

In practice, when you make an experienced handler aware that they are the last insurer, they will offer a quote without the need for the 3 declinatures. Also, they can't quote silly money

He rang his last insurer, they declined to quote and issued a letter saying that they were unwilling to quote as he did not fulfil their underwriting criteria. He was told by these insurers (Aviva) in the letter that he could go to the Declined Cases Committee if he got more declined letters. They were fully aware that they had insured him up to March of this year.

I consulted a neighbour who is a retired insurance company director and he told me that the Declined Cases route would take months.

I then consulted a friend who is an insurance broker and he advised me that the car was uninsurable with the companies he dealt with and that a younger car should be bought. He also advised that some insurance companies treated a no claims bonus as lost after a break in insurance of more than three months.

After a bit of frantic browsing my son did get insurance quotes from AIB insurance (AXA), from AXA directly, from AIG, Liberty and from 25plus. A further six companies declined to give online quotes.

In the end he went with 25 plus after explaining to them that his previous insurer had refused to quote on the grounds of the age of his car. He retained his no claim bonus and the amount he paid is in line with what he paid last year.

My question still stands. Does refusal to quote due to age of the vehicle constitute refusal of insurance which must be disclosed in the future?.

Taking into account Uberrimae fidei I think he must declare in order not to give any future insurer a way out in case of a claim.

Sue Pa Key Pa

If an insurer is aware of its obligations and still insists on due process, it is my experience that there are other issues which they wish to avoid. So as not to offend, I'll leave it there. You appear well versed on insurance terminology if you don't mind me saying

bluezulu49

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

If an insurer is aware of its obligations and still insists on due process, it is my experience that there are other issues which they wish to avoid.

There are no other issues of which I am aware. He got his full licence in March 2009 and had cover in his own name continuously from then until March 2016 with no claims, no points and no incidents.

As to the insurance terminology, I arranged all insurances, PL, EL, PI, motor and premises for my employer for more than twenty five years and had considerable dealings with brokers to assist them in persuading underwriters to give the cover I required, so some of the terminology did rub off and I have retained it.

The main lesson I have taken from this is not to let my own motor insurance lapse.

Car99

Try bank of ireland insurance

bluezulu49

Car99 wrote: »

Try bank of ireland insurance

They refused.

ted1

ASOT wrote: »

Thats just nonsense; his bonus would last two years.



Again it would be two years before the bonus is lost.

I've been told it wouldn't and it happened to me. I managed to get an in house discount as I was also named on my wife's policy

newacc2015

darlett wrote: »

If cars over 10 years are so uninsurable, maybe they should be exempt from the NCT.

It has nothing to do with the safety of the car, it is the risk involved. People are buying bangers for next to nothing, getting them insured and then have an 'accident' with a claim lodged to the insurer. Insurers dont see cars other than 10 years as unsafe, they know they are statistically more likely to be involved in insurance fraud.

3rdDegree

newacc2015 wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the safety of the car, it is the risk involved. People are buying bangers for next to nothing, getting them insured and then have an 'accident' with a claim lodged to the insurer. Insurers dont see cars other than 10 years as unsafe, they know they are statistically more likely to be involved in insurance fraud.

Absolute BS. Insurance companies are using car age as an excuse to gouge. What you say may be true of someone trying to get insurance for the first time, but insurance companies are charging excessive amounts to people with older cars who have excellent history and long no claims history - these are not people trying to defraud and everyone knows it!

sirwin357

Up until last year I worked in car and home insurance for over 10 years in one of the top 5 company's in Europe. What he is entitled to do is call and ask for a quote from any company in Ireland. Now these companies are entitled to refuse to quote under current legislation. What they do not tell you is you are entitled to a letter of refusal from said company. If your son gets 3 refusal letters under current law his last insurer is legally bound to insure him. However his ncb (no claims bonus) may be affected if he has not been insured within the 12 month period. If he can produce proof he has been insured in a non EU country in the interim as long as said proof is in English he will be entitled to his ncb.
Hope this helps
If you have questions I will be happy to reply

ASOT

ted1 wrote: »

I've been told it wouldn't and it happened to me. I managed to get an in house discount as I was also named on my wife's policy

Well its just not true your bonus lasts for two years; what company was it ?

Special Circumstances

newacc2015 wrote: »

It has nothing to do with the safety of the car, it is the risk involved. People are buying bangers for next to nothing, getting them insured and then have an 'accident' with a claim lodged to the insurer. Insurers dont see cars other than 10 years as unsafe, they know they are statistically more likely to be involved in insurance fraud.

I've heard well educated people in respectable jobs with perfect driving records are having crash for cash parties now Joe.
There's just no way of telling who's involved in this deviancy - anyone with a car 8 years or older could be one of these perverts Joe. Terdible Joe Terdible perverts.

Ye ye ye go onnnnnnn

cplwhisper

If you're refused cover then u must disclose same and it's up to the clerk to verify if reluctant or not depending on the acceptance terms of the insurance companyZ

I had customer today declined based on age of car '91 but that's not an issue at work based on the other info of quote, thus I quoted no problem..

Special Circumstances

cplwhisper wrote: »

If you're refused cover then u must disclose same and it's up to the clerk to verify if reluctant or not depending on the acceptance terms of the insurance companyZ

I had customer today declined based on age of car '91 but that's not an issue at work based on the other info of quote, thus I quoted no problem..

Sorry cplwhisper, can you clarify that? I find your post a little confusing.

Is there some magic distinction between "refused insurance" and "REFUSED insurance" - one being where you just get a "no quote, PFO" type of response from the website, the other being.... who knows?

It seems everyone in the country is being refused by this insurer or that insurer, when does it become one of these "thou shalt declare it until the end of days" refusals?

Alanstrainor

OP, I insured my big engined 2001 car with AIG this year. They were the best quote I got by a good margin. Worth a call I'd say.

endacl

tinkerbell2310 wrote: »

I've a provisional licence

*pedantic hat on*

No you don't.

cplwhisper

I have a list of acceptable criteria for customers to meet before I might have policy for them to quote for.

You want farm land insurance = refusal
Why- as we don't have liability cover high enough that you'll need

You want to insurance standard car, age of car normally not an issue (unless in age category for our concours scheme(25+ original factory car) , no accident, claims, conv, some PP ok, no adverse terms then 90% I'll provide quote

You present adverse terms
-
=
-high performance car,
-have learner licence/EU continental or worldwide licence
-acc/Clm/conv or multi PP then I may have to refuse.
-If more than 2 of the above(list not exhausted) then could end in DCA letter of refusal

Internet sites only good for straightforward cases

cplwhisper

I have a list of acceptable criteria for customers to meet before I might have policy for them to quote for.

You want farm land insurance = refusal
Why- as we don't have liability cover high enough that you'll need

You want to insurance standard car, age of car normally not an issue (unless in age category for our concours scheme(25+ original factory car) , no accident, claims, conv, some PP ok, no adverse terms then 90% I'll provide quote

You present adverse terms
-
=
-high performance car,
-have learner licence/EU continental or worldwide licence
-acc/Clm/conv or multi PP then I may have to refuse.
-If more than 2 of the above(list not exhausted) then could end in DCA letter of refusal

Internet sites only good for straightforward cases

...And Justice

Alanstrainor wrote: »

OP, I insured my big engined 2001 car with AIG this year. They were the best quote I got by a good margin. Worth a call I'd say.

I'm gonna give them a shout, my wife's insurance is up for renewal and she's been refused by her current insurer 123, she tried FBD refused, tried Zurich also refused because of the age of the car 2003. And I might say in perfect working order NCT and suspension work done work done. Absolute joke at this stage.



EDIT: Got a quote from AIG for her €1360!!!!!!!!!! Fcuking hell.

cplwhisper

As older cars , for some insurers , are involved more in claims they have every right to stop quoting or choose to increase premiums for such cars.

...And Justice

cplwhisper wrote: »

As older cars , for some insurers , are involved more in claims they have every right to stop quoting or choose to increase premiums for such cars.

Bull, it's never bothered them before until some shmuck looking after their finacial interests lost it all gambling on Wall Street.

Sue Pa Key Pa

...And Justice wrote: »

Bull, it's never bothered them before until some shmuck looking after their finacial interests lost it all gambling on Wall Street.

The profits the shmuck made gambling on Wall Street before the crash subsidised your old premiums. You can't have it both ways

Special Circumstances

...And Justice wrote: »

Bull, it's never bothered them before until some shmuck looking after their finacial interests lost it all gambling on Wall Street.

Ah it's a well known fact that people with verifiable proof of full time employment and faultless driving records are the ones out doing this every weekend. "Tis always the quiet ones"

There's just no way insurers could take a look at somebody's record and tell them apart from a professional scam merchant. "I flipped me lucky coin and it said this lad here with 0 NCB and 5 claims in 5 years was a good customer, yer wan there the teacher with the VW beetle and 10years NCB... me lucky coin didn't like her one bit, no sirree"

:mad::mad::mad:

Special Circumstances

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The profits the shmuck made gambling on Wall Street before the crash subsidised your old premiums. You can't have it both ways

It subsidised a whole hierarchy of gombeens who couldn't run a professional ship if they tried and now they're left flailing around trying to tell us 8 year old cars are an unacceptable risk for drivers with 10 years NCB.

...And Justice

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

The profits the shmuck made gambling on Wall Street before the crash subsidised your old premiums. You can't have it both ways

Insurance is supposed to be personalized based on your risk. That's what young drivers are told, in theory it goes down with years of claim free driving, so I disagree totally with your defense of the insurance industries outrageous price hikes because some "shmuck" is supposed to have given me low premiums because he was betting on the right horse at the right time... C'mon FFS.

The Wolverine

...And Justice wrote: »

I'm gonna give them a shout, my wife's insurance is up for renewal and she's been refused by her current insurer 123, she tried FBD refused, tried Zurich also refused because of the age of the car 2003. And I might say in perfect working order NCT and suspension work done work done. Absolute joke at this stage.



EDIT: Got a quote from AIG for her €1360!!!!!!!!!! Fcuking hell.

That car could only be 14 years old in Jan never mind 15, wtf are they at

They are really taking the piss it will be 10 year old limit next mark my words