Why the Irish need to pay themselves less

Wanderer78

This race to the bottom nonsense has to stop, it's extremely destructive for society as a whole. I completely agree with Michael Hudson that the FIRE sector is doing more harm to society than good. I would also include large corporations in this to, they are not truly helping society, or as Hudson says, they are a parasite on society. Like others have said, I to want a more equal society. Neoliberalism and free market economics is not working for the masses, and it is also causing massive amounts of environmental damage globally. It's back to the drawing board with us or we're potentially heading back to war and/or total environmental destruction.

nhunter100

Stoogie wrote:

Ok, well that's ok I'll ask my boss for a 25%pay cut on Monday so.

I'm sure he'll happily oblige you.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

By not affording things, people can force prices down. With no buyers, prices must fall.

Not automatically - If the price is too low the transaction might not take place at all. Buyer doesn't get good or service, seller doesn't get sale, economy is smaller.

One of the things that dragged Europe out of the dark ages was the death of serfs due to plague.
Work still had to be done so the remaining workers could demand higher wages, Lords and employers looked for efficiency improvements to compensate for the higher wages, technology and skills improved and the economy grew.
A virtuous circle established itself by more effective or efficient workers demanding and receiving higher better wages.

GreenFolder2

realitykeeper wrote: »

Ireland is not doing ok. It is a third world country, it just doesn`t know it yet. I was laughing at Michael Noonan during his budget speech for saying Ireland will end deficit spending in 2018. That is the year deficit spending will explode following the debasement of the Euro and the next super round of QE.

Using borrowed money to buy foreign goods may help GDP in the short term but it makes matters worse in the longer term.

The Irish do not "work smart". Buying equipment, to boost productivity is fine if it is not financed with money that is both borrowed and in an economy that uses a currency that is setting itself up for a major devaluation. The number one rule of investing is not to get into debt in order to do it. That is gambling and in a high cost economy, the odds are stacked against you.

At that rate you might as well write off most of the most developed economies of the world as 3rd world. Most of them are borrowed heavily.

The country ranks amongst the top ranking of the human development index and most other indices.

As for working smart, I assume you've done a survey of Irish companies and concluded we are all some sort of morons ?!?

Almost no country or business can function without credit (debt).

imitation

Yes the manual workers should take a cut, it would be a boon to the economy ! Never mind that cutting the wages of skilled workers would do far more good for the economy and everybody else, but that might be too close to home.

Its much better to get everybody setup on an equal basis and do there fair shate rather than this whole "they" should pay mentality people have..

realitykeeper

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

At that rate you might as well write off most of the most developed economies of the world as 3rd world.

I already have.

GreenFolder2

Letree wrote: »

Unilever are acting the goat they have no reason to be looking for 19% increases of the Irish consumer. They are currently trying to bully super valu. I think i'll stop buying their stuff either way.

It's utterly ludicrous.

The only explanation I can see is Unilever must be using some kind of internal fixed exchange rate to convert £ to "Irish Euro". Thus when Sterling sank and the numerical value went up on the products they just attempted to hike the price here.

The result would be 19% more profit here vs status quo in their home market.

I'm not buying any more Unilever products and I sincerely hope the supermarkets here bring in new ranges from competitors like Henkel which isn't present here at all. Unilever deserve to get a dose of market reality for this stunt!

Dunnes and SuperValu are no pushovers and I hope they absolutely clobber them for this.

We need to break the link with being seen as an adjunct of the UK market anyway. It's exposing us to currency fluctuations anyway.

Our consumer products from those large multinations should be coming from the Eurozone not the UK.

Actually it's a good reason why Ireland shouldn't adopt weird UK standards too - how much of a premium are we paying to have an oversized 13amp plug for example when it basically has no technical advantage - the continental version isn't killing millions of Swedes, Finns, French and Germans despite what the UK tabloids would have you think.

johnnyskeleton

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Mod Note:

Please read the charter. This forum requires a certain level of contribution from posters. Simply calling another poster's comment drivel falls below that standard. If you think he is wrong, demonstrate how he is.

Letree

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

I'm not buying any more Unilever products and I sincerely hope the supermarkets here bring in new ranges from competitors like Henkel which isn't present here at all. Unilever deserve to get a dose of market reality for this stunt!

Dunnes and SuperValu are no pushovers and I hope they absolutely clobber them for this.

Proctor & Gamble are another massive company selling similar products.

GreenFolder2

Letree wrote: »

Proctor & Gamble are another massive company selling similar products.

Yeah they've serious competition and if P&G had any sense this is a huge opportunity to wrap themselves in an Irish flag.

I can definitely find very good alternatives to most of their products and many good Irish ones, particularly Barry's Tea in place of Lyons and there are tons of nicer options than HB Ice Cream. I'll quite happily use Ariel as opposed to Persil.

This move could well push a lot of people over to store brands too. I found a lot of the laundry products really very good and significantly cheaper.

realitykeeper

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Neoliberalism and free market economics is not working for the masses, and it is also causing massive amounts of environmental damage globally. It's back to the drawing board with us or we're potentially heading back to war and/or total environmental destruction.

I think the first thing that should go is socialism. Once that has been removed, there is space for progress. Neoliberalism would be good if it was allowed but anti competitive laws and a plethora of regulations make it impossible. Low standards are bad for business so the markets raise standards by themselves. Enforced regulations that are not justified by market demand are anti competitive.

When Communism ended in eastern Europe, environment damage on a massive scale was discovered in the east while West Germany enjoyed pristine environmental standards and innovations to lessen the environment impact of industry. Despite the tremendous industrial output in the west, the environmental impact was a mere shadow of the catastrophic damage carried out in the name of Communism.

Nowadays in the EU, US and UK, crony capitalism (which is based on gambling on the markets and bailing out the losers) is destroying the last remaining vestiges of real capitalism. Crony capitalism is communism by stealth because QE leads to state ownership of everything.

realitykeeper

screamer wrote: »

I think someone needs a reality check. Do you really think the politicians give a flying fiddlers? Sure there are people sleeping rough on the streets but that doesn't encourage the politicians to sell their mansions......
they are bench mark protected elite. Like the rest of the public sector.

If unionized workers demanded the removal of the minimum wage and the right to work for very little, the politicians would face a popular revolt if they did not immediately slash their pay also. If politicians were forced to cut their own pay, they would very quickly cut the pay of those who give them such appalling advice for such gluttonous salaries. All good.

screamer wrote: »

... if people worked for less their employers would just pocket the difference not pass it on to the end consumer. Ever heard of outsourcing........ its happened manufacturers moving to low cost countries but there was no downward movement in their prices.

Why would manufacturers reward people in Ireland with lower prices after we forced them to move to China by our greedy and unrealistic pay demands? The same manufacturers sell their wares in China for a lot less than the sell them here because of the low labour costs there and also because of the cost of transporting goods here.

You also demonstrate a distrust of capitalism. The forces of supply, demand and competition ensure at least some of the savings are passed on. Only the greedy would expect a manufacturer to pass on all of the savings. What is not passed on is re-invested so more workers/consumers can benefit.

Wanderer78

realitykeeper wrote: »

I think the first thing that should go is socialism. Once that has been removed, there is space for progress. Neoliberalism would be good if it was allowed but anti competitive laws and a plethora of regulations make it impossible. Low standards are bad for business so the markets raise standards by themselves. Enforced regulations that are not justified by market demand are anti competitive.

When Communism ended in eastern Europe, environment damage on a massive scale was discovered in the east while West Germany enjoyed pristine environmental standards and innovations to lessen the environment impact of industry. Despite the tremendous industrial output in the west, the environmental impact was a mere shadow of the catastrophic damage carried out in the name of Communism.

Nowadays in the EU, US and UK, crony capitalism (which is based on gambling on the markets and bailing out the losers) is destroying the last remaining vestiges of real capitalism. Crony capitalism is communism by stealth because QE leads to state ownership of everything.

id have to disagree to a point, im not convinced neoliberalism will ever work no matter what you throw at it. its based on fundamentally flawed economic theories and principles such as neoclassical theory etc. it allows, even promotes predatory behaviour, causing serious damage to our social economic and environmental systems.

i like the idea of socialism but it to has largely failed for various different reasons, but if we allow neoliberalism to continue, i do believe, michael hudson is probably right here also, that it just creates 'rentier classes', and these classes have no intention of sharing wealth more equally, in fact i think its bringing the worst kind of behaviour out in many humans, i.e. greed. i feel it also creates and promotes what i call, 'hyper-competitiveness' , this is when competitive behaviour causes destructive outcomes for the majority. id completely disagree about regulation, markets are not self correcting. if there was no regulation, our planet would be completely wrecked. bill blacks work explains very well how destructive financial institutions can be when light touch regulation is implemented. this planet and its resources belong to all, they are not for the minority to exploit. advocating for the reduction of workers pay just plays into the hands of these rentiers.

neoliberalism and free market economics is accelerating environmental damage, and if we dont do something about it immediately, this planet will be uninhabitable for most if not all humans very soon.

i will agree with you to a point with your last point, according to noam chomsky, we dont actually have true capitalism, in a true capitalist system, the investor takes all the risk and if the investment fails, thats the investor's problem. but of course thats not what we have been experiencing in most recent times with bailouts etc. theres nothing wrong with state ownership in theory as this should be to the benefit to everybody, hence why im a believer in systems such as public banking.

i think its time to move on from neoliberalism and communism for that matter, its time to look into alternative capitalist systems that promote and encourage more equal distribution of wealth and prioritise the protection of our planet, or as i said previously, i truly believe we ll end up back in a world war and/or the total destruction or our planet.

screamer

realitykeeper wrote: »

If unionized workers demanded the removal of the minimum wage and the right to work for very little, the politicians would face a popular revolt if they did not immediately slash their pay also. If politicians were forced to cut their own pay, they would very quickly cut the pay of those who give them such appalling advice for such gluttonous salaries. All good.


Why would manufacturers reward people in Ireland with lower prices after we forced them to move to China by our greedy and unrealistic pay demands? The same manufacturers sell their wares in China for a lot less than the sell them here because of the low labour costs there and also because of the cost of transporting goods here.

You also demonstrate a distrust of capitalism. The forces of supply, demand and competition ensure at least some of the savings are passed on. Only the greedy would expect a manufacturer to pass on all of the savings. What is not passed on is re-invested so more workers/consumers can benefit.

My gosh this is la la land thinking. Humans by nature are out for as much as they can get humans all over the world. The employees the employers the retailers etc want as much as they can possibly get always have and always will and not just in Ireland BTW. But sure keep thinking of the greedy low paid workers out there and hoping that they'll go and demand to be turned into some sort of indentured servants for the common good.........

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

If unionized workers demanded the removal of the minimum wage and the right to work for very little, the politicians would face a popular revolt if they did not immediately slash their pay also. If politicians were forced to cut their own pay, they would very quickly cut the pay of those who give them such appalling advice for such gluttonous salaries. All good.


Why would manufacturers reward people in Ireland with lower prices after we forced them to move to China by our greedy and unrealistic pay demands? The same manufacturers sell their wares in China for a lot less than the sell them here because of the low labour costs there and also because of the cost of transporting goods here.

You also demonstrate a distrust of capitalism. The forces of supply, demand and competition ensure at least some of the savings are passed on. Only the greedy would expect a manufacturer to pass on all of the savings. What is not passed on is re-invested so more workers/consumers can benefit.

You are quite mad.

Capitalism used to pretend it could make workers richer, even if that meant the rich got richer. Now it's defenders want impoverished workers.

RP your understanding of economics is pathetic. To pay off debt we need higher income (that's what's GDP is) not lower income.

realitykeeper

screamer wrote: »

My gosh this is la la land thinking. Humans by nature are out for as much as they can get humans all over the world. The employees the employers the retailers etc want as much as they can possibly get always have and always will and not just in Ireland BTW. But sure keep thinking of the greedy low paid workers out there and hoping that they'll go and demand to be turned into some sort of indentured servants for the common good.........

That is a very shortsighted and self centered mindset you`ve got there. People acting collectively can change the outcome one way or the other. By demanding more pay instead of much less, the Irish are really being very very foolish. Where do you think all this higher pay will bring us, to wealth or total destitution?

By the time you have realized it is the latter, it will be to late to do anything other than suffer the consequences.

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is a very shortsighted and self centered mindset you`ve got there. People acting collectively can change the outcome one way or the other. By demanding more pay instead of much less, the Irish are really being very very foolish. Where do you think all this higher pay will bring us, to wealth or total destitution?

By the time you have realized it is the latter, it will be to late to do anything other than suffer the consequences.

The poverty makes people richer ideology isn't going to catch on though. You might need a saner argument.

Skommando

Does the OP really think people are stupid enough to fall for yet another plutocratic and patronising twist and spin ?
The conceited arrogance of the plutocrats and their monkey's knows no bounds.

realitykeeper

Harvey Normal wrote: »

To pay off debt we need higher income (that's what's GDP is) not lower income.

No, to pay off debt we need the economy to fall to levels where it can find competitive traction in order to grow organically. Paying people a lot of money just so they can service their celtic tiger era mortgages is a very bad idea. Those people need to have their pay cut big time and then immediately evicted upon default. Instead we have this ridiculous situation of people living in the banks houses for years without paying a cent on their mortgages, while other poor slobs are stuck paying high rent to the eejits who borrowed to buy massively overpriced properties pre 2008.

None of this is moral and therefore it will come unstuck with devastating consequences for the economy and everyone invested in it.

PopePalpatine

The debt's still going to be there. What on Earth makes you think your dream of all us plebs reduced to living in workhouses and wearing hairshirts will do anything to reduce the debt?

It's like Ayn Rand had a meth-fuelled brainstorming session with Matt Talbot.

Geuze

As wages are not particularly high in Ireland compared with other EU countries, but prices are, then clearly high wages aren't the problem.

Non-wage costs are too high.

Medical / legal / property costs, all too high.

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

No, to pay off debt we need the economy to fall to levels where it can find competitive traction in order to grow organically. Paying people a lot of money just so they can service their celtic tiger era mortgages is a very bad idea. Those people need to have their pay cut big time and then immediately evicted upon default. Instead we have this ridiculous situation of people living in the banks houses for years without paying a cent on their mortgages, while other poor slobs are stuck paying high rent to the eejits who borrowed to buy massively overpriced properties pre 2008.

None of this is moral and therefore it will come unstuck with devastating consequences for the economy and everyone invested in it.

I don't you even begin to understand rudimentary economics. The debt I was talking about was the national debt. If we all earn less then our ability to pay off that debt is lowered. GDP is the income of the county including wages. Pay less and national income declines. In fact it has a multiplier effect because one man's expenditure is another man's income. I don't think you understand what competitive means either - it doesn't mean poor. In fact poor countries are not competitive.

realitykeeper

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The debt's still going to be there. What on Earth makes you think your dream of all us plebs reduced to living in workhouses and wearing hairshirts will do anything to reduce the debt?

By working for less now, the real economy can grow and the bubble economy will shrink. For example, service sector jobs will decline while manufacturing of everyday stuff (not just pharmaceuticals & tech) will increase. This will reduce imports and bring in foreign revenue.

The problem with many of the service sector jobs is they are a net drain on the economy because they usually sell more imported products than Irish made products so the only way they can actually bring in money from outside the economy is if a tourist happens to go in and buy something.

By accepting lower pay now and letting the real economy grow organically, things will improve in time but in a real, justifiable and sustainable way. The pay people get in this country could not continue if the ECB stopped printing money, if it let the markets determine the natural interest rate and if the government stopped borrowing.

Stimulus fueled growth is not real, or sustainable without the stimulus that made it possible. Only pay restraint and a lot of hard work can ensure economic growth in the long term.

realitykeeper

Harvey Normal wrote: »

If we all earn less then our ability to pay off that debt is lowered. GDP is the income of the county including wages. Pay less and national income declines. In fact it has a multiplier effect because one man's expenditure is another man's income. I don't think you understand what competitive means either - it doesn't mean poor. In fact poor countries are not competitive.

The whole point in cutting pay is to make Ireland a low cost economy. Naturally if pay is cut, social welfare must be abolished. People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them and it paves the way for prosperity for future generations.

Such measures would reduce Ireland`s expenditures massively. The effect is that Ireland could just about pay the interest on its debt (revenues would be lower because the service sector bubble would deflate and be replaced with a lower income manufacturing sector) but crucially it could also begin the long process of paying down the principle. Paying the principle would be excruciatingly slow to begin with but it could be paid back in an accelerating pace until the country is debt free with a new revenue surplus to be used exclusively for infrastructure, resource development and education grants to the most accomplished students using a privatized education sector.

CramCycle

realitykeeper wrote: »

The whole point in cutting pay is to make Ireland a low cost economy. Naturally if pay is cut, social welfare must be abolished. People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them and it paves the way for prosperity for future generations.

What if I don't want to work when I am too old to be comfortable with it? I mean why not let me overwork myself now when I am physically and mentally fit for it and let me rest when I am not in later life? Will the whips come out then or will I already be in shackles and worked to death?

Healthcare is a big expense as well, lets just cut that, the sick will die out quicker and allow mother Ireland to become strong again.

Good idea on cutting Pharma and tech as well, woldn't want people thinking outside the box and wanting something different.

Probably should standardise clothes as well, will be cheaper to manufacture, and lower the risk of free thinking.

Now all we need is someone to lead us, drone bees, sorry people cannot think for themselves, for the sake of the economy. Maybe you had somone in mind, not a politician, better someone who already knows better than the people, do you know anyone who sees what the rest of us do not.

realitykeeper

CramCycle wrote: »

What if I don't want to work when I am too old to be comfortable with it? I mean why not let me overwork myself now when I am physically and mentally fit for it and let me rest when I am not in later life? Will the whips come out then or will I already be in shackles and worked to death?

Healthcare is a big expense as well, lets just cut that, the sick will die out quicker and allow mother Ireland to become strong again.

Good idea on cutting Pharma and tech as well, woldn't want people thinking outside the box and wanting something different.

Probably should standardise clothes as well, will be cheaper to manufacture, and lower the risk of free thinking.

Now all we need is someone to lead us, drone bees, sorry people cannot think for themselves, for the sake of the economy. Maybe you had somone in mind, not a politician, better someone who already knows better than the people, do you know anyone who sees what the rest of us do not.

Nobody is saying you cannot work hard now. You can work as hard as you like and live off your savings if you do not want to work in your old age.

In the existing system, the sick are dying on waiting lists anyway. The HSE is receiving billions every year and they pocket the money and you get absolutely nothing whatsoever in return for all the taxes you have paid. If you want to be treated you pay or die on a waiting list. Of couse the HSE should be privatized.

I did not say pharma and tech should be cut, those sectors should be kept.

If you want standardized clothes, don`t worry you will get them if the country keeps going in its present direction.

Some populations are collectively clever, others are collectively foolish. The Irish can be very clever as individuals but collectively they tend to retain that self interest which is not in their interests as part of a collective. Therefore the entire population is heading toward disaster.

realitykeeper

Skommando wrote: »

What is this current obsession with wanting other people, particularly the lower paid, to be paid even less ?

What country are you living in? Here in Ireland people obsess with what other people are getting and then they want to get as much or more as the other guy.

Jealousy aside, why do people in Ireland behave like this? Instead of focusing on what someone else has, they should be focusing on their own work or apprenticeship or course of study in order to earn more on their merits.

We should all have learned these simple lessons in life as toddlers. Perhaps German mothers do a better job than Irish mothers when it comes to toddler education.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

Naturally if pay is cut, social welfare must be abolished. People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them and it paves the way for prosperity for future generations.

Tbh, I find this quite offensive. So when people reach an age where they not fit enough to work, but would still be considered healthy for their age, what do they do?

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

The whole point in cutting pay is to make Ireland a low cost economy. Naturally if pay is cut, social welfare must be abolished. People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them and it paves the way for prosperity for future generations.

3rd world countries are not grand and not necessarily going to be rich either in the future. Many are stuck in poverty. And we owe this debt now not in the future.

Such measures would reduce Ireland`s expenditures massively. The effect is that Ireland could just about pay the interest on its debt (revenues would be lower because the service sector bubble would deflate and be replaced with a lower income manufacturing sector) but crucially it could also begin the long process of paying down the principle. Paying the principle would be excruciatingly slow to begin with but it could be paid back in an accelerating pace until the country is debt free with a new revenue surplus to be used exclusively for infrastructure, resource development and education grants to the most accomplished students using a privatized education sector.

That paragraph started making no sense, contradicted itself to make no sense and then made no sense again.

If we are poorer the debt to GDP ratio gets larger. So the payment of the principle becomes harder.

I don't think you understand basic arithmetic at this stage.

Harvey Normal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh, I find this quite offensive. So when people reach an age where they not fit enough to work, but would still be considered healthy for their age, what do they do?

Work. Until they die. He wants the 18C back.

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

What country are you living in? Here in Ireland people obsess with what other people are getting and then they want to get as much or more as the other guy.

Jealousy aside, why do people in Ireland behave like this? Instead of focusing on what someone else has, they should be focusing on their own work or apprenticeship or course of study in order to earn more on their merits.

We should all have learned these simple lessons in life as toddlers. Perhaps German mothers do a better job than Irish mothers when it comes to toddler education.

You're the one obsessed with what your fellow citizens are earning.

Donal55

realitykeeper wrote: »

The whole point in cutting pay is to make Ireland a low cost economy. Naturally if pay is cut, social welfare must be abolished. People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them and it paves the way for prosperity for future generations.

Such measures would reduce Ireland`s expenditures massively. The effect is that Ireland could just about pay the interest on its debt (revenues would be lower because the service sector bubble would deflate and be replaced with a lower income manufacturing sector) but crucially it could also begin the long process of paying down the principle. Paying the principle would be excruciatingly slow to begin with but it could be paid back in an accelerating pace until the country is debt free with a new revenue surplus to be used exclusively for infrastructure, resource development and education grants to the most accomplished students using a privatized education sector.

Eh, just to give you a reality check. People in third world countries without sw aren't grand. Just ask Goal, Trocaire, Bothar or even Geldof. Your arguments are drivel as another poster said.

realitykeeper

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh, I find this quite offensive. So when people reach an age where they not fit enough to work, but would still be considered healthy for their age, what do they do?

Just because someone says they can`t work does not mean they can`t work. If you whip them, I think you would be amazed how many suddenly develop the ability to work. Everyone can work, earn, contribute and benefit from their own labours instead of having to be totally dependent on others. If you place a quadriplegic in front of a bank of security monitors, with a mouth rod to tap a keyboard, they can perform a valuable function.

Only the wicket want to deprive the old and infirm of the very thing they most treasure, the right to work.

alastair

realitykeeper wrote: »

Just because someone says they can`t work does not mean they can`t work. If you whip them, I think you would be amazed how many suddenly develop the ability to work.

Seems reasonable.

realitykeeper

Donal55 wrote: »

Eh, just to give you a reality check. People in third world countries without sw aren't grand. Just ask Goal, Trocaire, Bothar or even Geldof. Your arguments are drivel as another poster said.

Those charities are the cause of poverty in the third world. Dambisa Moya has the right idea.

Wanderer78

realitykeeper wrote: »

Those charities are the cause of poverty in the third world. Dambisa Moya has the right idea.

id say the actions of some of our largest financial institutions is the cause of poverty in developing countries.

heres an interesting conversation about neoliberalism and its effects on developing countries:

https://kpfa.org/episode/11856/

PopePalpatine

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Work. Until they die. He wants the 18C back.

Complete with Magdalene laundries and dozens of Artane industrial "schools"!

Stasi 2.0

realitykeeper wrote: »

People in third world countries don`t have social welfare and they are grand. That`s because everything becomes very cheap and everyone works until they die which is good for them .

OK ?

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

Just because someone says they can`t work does not mean they can`t work. If you whip them, I think you would be amazed how many suddenly develop the ability to work. Everyone can work, earn, contribute and benefit from their own labours instead of having to be totally dependent on others. If you place a quadriplegic in front of a bank of security monitors, with a mouth rod to tap a keyboard, they can perform a valuable function.

Only the wicket want to deprive the old and infirm of the very thing they most treasure, the right to work.

Yep, just like in alot of continental Europe in the early 1940s. Hmmmm, thread in wrong forum me thinks.

Harvey Normal

realitykeeper wrote: »

Just because someone says they can`t work does not mean they can`t work. If you whip them, I think you would be amazed how many suddenly develop the ability to work. Everyone can work, earn, contribute and benefit from their own labours instead of having to be totally dependent on others. If you place a quadriplegic in front of a bank of security monitors, with a mouth rod to tap a keyboard, they can perform a valuable function.

Only the wicket want to deprive the old and infirm of the very thing they most treasure, the right to work.

Alright. This is definitely a troll.

realitykeeper

Harvey Normal wrote: »

Alright. This is definitely a troll.

I am not suggesting they should be whipped. I am merely pointing out that if they were, then in all probability, many of those who say they can`t work, would work.

Skommando

Just because someone says they can`t work does not mean they can`t work. If you whip them, I think you would be amazed how many suddenly develop the ability to work. Everyone can work, earn, contribute and benefit from their own labours instead of having to be totally dependent on others. If you place a quadriplegic in front of a bank of security monitors, with a mouth rod to tap a keyboard, they can perform a valuable function.

Only the wicket want to deprive the old and infirm of the very thing they most treasure, the right to work.

ya, zey need to learn that work makes you free.

nhunter100

Skommando wrote:

ya, zey need to learn that work makes you free.

'Abret mei frei' I might have the spelling wrong but there was a group in the 40's with that ideology. Didn't work out to well for humanity though.

realitykeeper

nhunter100 wrote: »

'Abret mei frei' I might have the spelling wrong but there was a group in the 40's with that ideology. Didn't work out to well for humanity though.

That is actually a very good idea if it was actually applied in rehabilitating criminals. It is silly to say it is a bad idea because it was displayed at Auschwitz. At Auschwitz the people were not criminals and work did not set them free.

Cookie_Monster

OP, why do you continue to live in Ireland when you think everything is wrong here? Why not move to these countries, like Rwanda, that you hold in such high esteem. You could work for next to nothing, have no support system in place, no fallback, dirt cheap goods and services and little or not tax to worry about!

Grecco

I dont get it, if the value of sterling falls against the euro by 20% shouldn`t we be getting the UK products for 20% less?
WTF do Unilever think, that we are the most stupid people on the plant or what!

Grecco

And another thing, Why do RTE and other news services don`t pick up on this instead of blindly shoving it down our throats.

Grecco

Grecco wrote: »

I dont get it, if the value of sterling falls against the euro by 20% shouldn`t we be getting the UK products for 20% less?
WTF do Unilever think, that we are the most stupid people on the plant or what!

Global Supply chains are not this easy.

Very few of products are originated fully within the UK and so the exchange rate benefits aren't accessible directly.

The only goods that have no cost of supply increases for the UK producer (under the weakened pound) are ones that are wholly indigenous. There are not many of them.

alastair

Grecco wrote: »

And another thing, Why do RTE and other news services don`t pick up on this instead of blindly shoving it down our throats.

Shoving what down our throats, exactly?

AnGaelach

realitykeeper wrote: »

Irony abounds. Mefeinism and jealousy will be the ruination of Ireland. Everyone should demand lower pay because Irish politicians have to be led, they need to be shown the way by an enlightened public.

realitykeeper wrote: »

By not affording things, people can force prices down. With no buyers, prices must fall.

"Reality keeper"

Quis custodiet ipsos rebus-custodes?