Electric skateboard

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Why is a blind eye turned if they are legal?

They are not illegal once they get their certification.

A blind eye is turned I would assume because it's a ridiculous law and everyone knows it, 250 watts is completely useless in steep hills where power is Needed.

I can't say if any other bike maker applies a 250 watt limit or not, I would assume some do and some don't.

If they start forcing a 250 watt limit then no one will buy these bikes in the numbers they do, don't get me wrong, there are poor quality bikes sold with 250 watts but I guarantee they're not claiming many hills on them especially those crap hub motor bikes, hub motors at not bad but they need a lot of power and to be internally geared and not direct drive or gearless.

The most important limits and those that make any sense are those that limit acceleration and speed. But even 25-28 kph is a bit low. You can freewheel down a hill at 60 kph.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

I've seen plenty of people using them going up hills without pedaling, that requires tax insurance licence etc. which the morons never have.

I wouldn't be too worried about that, and I wouldn't call them Morans, plenty of motorists driving and texting are doing a lot more harm and pedestrians that walk glued to their phone with headphones stuck in their ears. But let's worry about the Euboea rider that doesn't pedal.

eeguy

Del2005 wrote: »

I've seen plenty of people using them going up hills without pedaling, that requires tax insurance licence etc. which the morons never have.

On what type of bike? I haven't that much experience with different brands, but everyone I've seen requires you to at least make the pedalling motion, otherwise they'll have a throttle or some other speed control and that's a different product all together.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They are not illegal once they get their certification.

A blind eye is turned I would assume because it's a ridiculous law and everyone knows it, 250 watts is completely useless in steep hills where power is Needed.

I can't say if any other bike maker applies a 250 watt limit or not, I would assume some do and some don't.

If they start forcing a 250 watt limit then no one will buy these bikes in the numbers they do, don't get me wrong, there are poor quality bikes sold with 250 watts but I guarantee they're not claiming many hills on them especially those crap hub motor bikes, hub motors at not bad but they need a lot of power and to be internally geared and not direct drive or gearless.

The most important limits and those that make any sense are those that limit acceleration and speed. But even 25-28 kph is a bit low. You can freewheel down a hill at 60 kph.

How can they be certified if they produce more power than allowed? If the bike produces more power than allowed then its a Powered Two Wheeler and requires insurance, licence etc. until the law is changed.

Del2005

eeguy wrote: »

On what type of bike? I haven't that much experience with different brands, but everyone I've seen requires you to at least make the pedalling motion, otherwise they'll have a throttle or some other speed control and that's a different product all together.

The illegal type. Other countries have less restrictive legislation that allows non pedal assisted bicycles and like all restrictions in this country most people ignore our law as its inconvenient for them having to pedal.

magicbastarder

are there any of these e-bikes which don't plug into the mains? i.e. a bike which buffers the input from the rider, or reclaims energy on downhill slopes and braking? too complicated to get onto a bike?

eeguy

magicbastarder wrote: »

are there any of these e-bikes which don't plug into the mains? i.e. a bike which buffers the input from the rider, or reclaims energy on downhill slopes and braking? too complicated to get onto a bike?

Too expensive and inefficient. The energy reclaimed isn't worth the cost.

Del2005 wrote: »

I've seen plenty of people using them going up hills without pedaling, that requires tax insurance licence etc. which the morons never have.

Del2005 wrote: »

The illegal type. Other countries have less restrictive legislation that allows non pedal assisted bicycles and like all restrictions in this country most people ignore our law as its inconvenient for them having to pedal.

How can you get tax and insurance and a license on a bike that's illegal in this country?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

are there any of these e-bikes which don't plug into the mains? i.e. a bike which buffers the input from the rider, or reclaims energy on downhill slopes and braking? too complicated to get onto a bike?

You would only ever replace a tiny fraction of the energy you take out but regenerative braking is very useful for hills and greatly reduces the wear on brakes.

As for a "buffer from the rider" this would create drag and defeat the purpose for the rider who wants life easier but hopefully still wants to put in effort.

One some bikes depending on the type of motor used regen isn't possible or easy to achieve.

Del2005

eeguy wrote: »

How can you get tax and insurance and a license on a bike that's illegal in this country?

They don't meet the criteria for an assisted bicycle, which don't require licence, tax or insurance. It's legal to ride with the correct licence, tax, insurance and approved helmet.

Who really cares ? you could get hit by a cyclist riding 28 mph. Different if you're riding at 50 kph on a footpath.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

How can they be certified if they produce more power than allowed? If the bike produces more power than allowed then its a Powered Two Wheeler and requires insurance, licence etc. until the law is changed.

They're certified because they won't pull max power unless you're going up a hill, some Idiots that make these laws just can't understand this and deem anything over 250 watts a danger which is incredible ignorance. These people are not engineers and have no basic understanding of power, torque etc. So the test will check power and acceleration which is all that really matters + as far as I'm aware there is no way to test the power being pulled by the whole system at least not where they're tested.

Either way, once these bikes are certified you can ride them all you want.

Much more important things to worry about such as Diesel cars escaping massive Nox and PM emissions which are breaching regulations but this has happened to protect the auto industry, regulators have been aware of this for years. So I doubt anyone will care about an e-bike that is 400 odd watts at peak power over some stupid limit made up by idiots.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They're certified because they won't pull max power unless you're going up a hill, some Idiots that make these laws just can't understand this and deem anything over 250 watts a danger which is incredible ignorance. These people are not engineers and have no basic understanding of power, torque etc. So the test will check power and acceleration which is all that really matters + as far as I'm aware there is no way to test the power being pulled by the whole system at least not where they're tested.

Either way, once these bikes are certified you can ride them all you want.

Much more important things to worry about such as Diesel cars escaping massive Nox and PM emissions which are breaching regulations but this has happened to protect the auto industry, regulators have been aware of this for years. So I doubt anyone will care about an e-bike that is 400 odd watts at peak power over some stupid limit made up by idiots.

So you complain about one group faking emissions but have no problem with another making vehicles which don't comply with regulations!

I've never said that the law was sensible and I agree that the figure was pulled from nowhere, just like the power restrictions on motorcycle licences, but the restrictions are the law and should be enforced. People are riding vehicles that require insurance and licence so if they hit another road user, or meet a knowledgeable Garda, are risking serious fines and penalty points.

And will you stop with the certified. I've a car and motorbike that are both certified, neither can be used on a public road as you like

I worry about regulations that actually matter, these bikes are not illegal because they are passing the tests and anyone riding them are perfectly legally entitled to do so.

Emissions breaches should be a criminal offence due to the damage to human health and the environment , an e-bike outputting a few hundred watts extra on a hill is not in the slightest bit going to do any harm what so ever......... it's still speed restricted and even if it wasn't 750 watts isn't enough to speed up a steep hill.........

So in other words, the E.U have tolerated these emissions breaches for many years and did nothing about it to protect the auto industry. And our emissions limits are far higher than in the U.S , again to protect the auto industry.

If you hit anyone on a push bike you can be sued equally as if you're riding e-bike and if you are on a Bosch powered e-bike you will be riding a perfectly legal bike so no criminal action can ever be taken. That's as simple as it gets.

Special Circumstances

Public enemy number one guys:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/221261/investigation-intoassault-on-elderly-couple-at-university-of-limerick.html

According to gardai, the two victims, aged in their 60s, were attacked by a man on a mechanised skateboard with an “unleashed” ginger

Right ban them so...... perhaps the thugs should be jailed instead but I bet the talk will be about how to ban these "mechanised skateboards"

beauf

Can't be many with a mechanised skateboards it must be obvious who he is.

beauf

Co-incidentally.

http://newatlas.com/best-electric-skateboards-holiday-2016/46116/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=b78f1b76f5-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-b78f1b76f5-91215121

These are about the only devices I recommend as being any way safe, good quality and good reputation.

http://www.ninebot.com/Index-index.html

Even the single mono wheel is far safer due to the much larger wheel, even though it's one wheel it's perfectly balanced once you get used to it, the larger wheel allows you to take bumps without throwing you like the hoverboards can.

dadawg

E-boards are amazing inventions. Save money and help the environment while commuting. Shame they're so pricey but I'll test mine to see if it's worth it. I've ordered my Evolve Bamboo GT, currently awaiting delivery. One of my biggest worries about this was the legality of these things. I've spoken to Garda and RSA about it. The Gardai tell me that they don't really care about it unless you're being irresponsible. The RSA however, tell me that I'll need a licence, insurance and tax to ride this thing. Now, I usually get taken out to dinner before I get f*cked so I'm gonna go ahead and ignore that email. I've got a full drivers licence and balls of steel....they will suffice. Once I'm careful, this thing will save me a ton of money and bring me on some fun adventures.

Sniipe

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

V1. I've left my v2 order alone and I'll still probably get it in once they sort shipping. I can always sell the V1 anyway... I'm just looking forward to riding it for a week or two before the Weather turns to crap.

Hey, did you get the Boosted board? How are things going with it? I found this thread while trying to find Irish people who have a boosted board. I'm pretty tempted to get one.

just a point on the electric skateboards. the surfaces - roads, paths etc in Ireland are shyte.
you need to get a board with wheels like the evolve AT (all-terrain), either the evolve bamboo or the evolve carbon. like the pic (bamboo with all-terrain wheels pictured).
you won't have a good or safe experience on say a boosted board here with it's small wheels.
the bumping will drive you mad and if you go into a small crack with those wheels you'll go flying off.

These things are madness on public streets, at lease get something proper that you can hold on to and has large wheels like in the pic to the ninebot above.

http://www.ninebot.com/Index-index.html

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

These things are madness on public streets, at lease get something proper that you can hold on to and has large wheels like in the pic to the ninebot above.

http://www.ninebot.com/Index-index.html

they are actually not that bad once you have some experience.
you look like a gimp on one of those segway type things imo

plus one of the advantages of an eboard is that you bring it with you most places as it's portable and not that heavy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Probably for potability the board would be better but for safety nothing will beat the ninebot type mini segways. You can fold their handles down too.

They're just so much safer, to me anyway, on Irish streets I would never feel comfortable with a hoverboard , or electric skateboard.

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Probably for potability the board would be better but for safety nothing will beat the ninebot type mini segways. You can fold their handles down too.

They're just so much safer, to me anyway, on Irish streets I would never feel comfortable with a hoverboard , or electric skateboard.

...

No one will use that is just way too big.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

No one will use that is just way too big.

Plenty of people do though.

There's always the mono wheel , again, large wheel suitable for bumps, this is the minimum I would have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxQttekQACw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk6QUDCh_48

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

Plenty of people do though....

Where are these plenty of people?

Never seen one in Dublin. Seen a handful of full sized Seways. I've even seen one of those single balancing wheels a couple of times. But I have seen loads of folding bikes, electric bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc.

Ninebot E+ V newer S2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaNk9RQdl5o

Fixed the video links.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Where are these plenty of people?

Never seen one in Dublin. Seen a handful of full sized Seways. I've even seen one of those single balancing wheels a couple of times. But I have seen loads of folding bikes, electric bikes, scooters, skateboards, etc.

Obviously not in Ireland.

even that smaller ninebot e+ weights over 14kg. it may be smaller but that's too heavy.
the eboards weigh from 6kg to 8kg - e.g. 1/2 the weight (on average).

glasso

glasso wrote: »

even that smaller ninebot e+ weights over 14kg. it may be smaller but that's too heavy.
the eboards weigh from 6kg to 8kg - e.g. 1/2 the weight (on average).

I'm not debating the advantages of size and weight of the skateboard.

I really think there are serious safety issues with these tiny wheel scooter type devices and these hoverboards.

The ninebot s+ is 11.4 Kg. and in my opinion ( only opinion) far safer to ride and won't throw you in bumbs and go go over all sorts of ground, will have far more uses than just commuting.

http://www.ninebot.com/Product-s2.html

Oh and as with all these devices with pretty large batteries , including electric bikes.

Don't store them in the house and if you do store in a fireproof location, especially when charging !

The same really should be said for laptops, and Ipads, mobiles etc.

beauf

All current gadgets...

Yeah pretty much, though those with much larger batteries such as ebikes, etc pose a far greater danger due to storing much more energy. It would be safe to assume the the danger is quiet minimal but the danger is still there all the same.

Smoke alarms are essential !

beauf

It's a vicious cycle...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh and as with all these devices with pretty large batteries , including electric bikes.

Don't store them in the house and if you do store in a fireproof location, especially when charging !

The same really should be said for laptops, and Ipads, mobiles etc.

it depends on the battery tech being used. if something is using packs made of 18650 li ion cells it's going to be safe.

something using lipro in custom shapes is less safe - like what those crappy hoverboards were using.

beauf

They fall and be batteried.

glasso

glasso wrote: »

it depends on the battery tech being used. if something is using packs made of 18650 li ion cells it's going to be safe.

something using lipro in custom shapes is less safe - like what those crappy hoverboards were using.

Not really no, most chemistries and form factors are unsafe if something goes wrong with the exception of LiFeP04. LiFeP04 is pretty safe but it's bulkier and heavier but also offers good value for money due to having good cycle life but I'd choose something else for mobility use, I wouldn't rule it out altogether but it would be my last choice.

Larger batteries for mobility use I would certainly not ever store or charge in the house unless in a fireproof location same goes for the shed.

dadawg

I've got the Bamboo GT, it's the best purchase I've ever made. I don't use train or the luas now. It's saving me loads and is the most fun you can get in a commute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NThjtkyLIGQ

That's noisy.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really no, most chemistries and form factors are unsafe if something goes wrong with the exception of LiFeP04. LiFeP04 is pretty safe but it's bulkier and heavier but also offers good value for money due to having good cycle life but I'd choose something else for mobility use, I wouldn't rule it out altogether but it would be my last choice.

Larger batteries for mobility use I would certainly not ever store or charge in the house unless in a fireproof location same goes for the shed.

there are definitely way more problems with lithium polymer than lithium ion.
Lipo is more prone to swelling during charging. swelling, burst -> smoke, maybe fire.
Lipo is frequently in custom pouches which can exacerbate the above.
And lithium ion in 18650 form is pretty safe, unless the wrong battery (discharge rate in amps etc) was selected for the use.
LFP as you say has a decent rep.

glasso

glasso wrote: »

there are definitely way more problems with lithium polymer than lithium ion.
Lipo is more prone to swelling during charging. swelling, burst -> smoke, maybe fire.
Lipo is frequently in custom pouches which can exacerbate the above.
And lithium ion in 18650 form is pretty safe, unless the wrong battery (discharge rate in amps etc) was selected for the use.
LFP as you say has a decent rep.

These problems are mainly down to quality control. Most of these cells will burn badly given the correct conditions which is absolutely possible, probably rare but I wouldn't take a risk with my family. True , some chemistries are more volatile than others such as LiPo and LiCo.

The Likes of as I said, LiFeP04 are very safe and the LiNm used in the Nissan Leaf, which will not catch fire but would heat enough that anything flammable in contact could possibly catch fire.

You just can't take chances with batteries, and a lot of reasons airliners (courier companies) need to be notified now if anything has a lithium battery , and getting more common if a lithium battery of any kind such are the dangers posed, they do not want to take a chance.

Try take your Ebike or Ninebot, today on a plane and you could get in serious trouble if they are not notified about the presence of lithium batteries and on board you can't carry more than about (don't quote me on this) about 50 watt hrs of battery.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

nce.

Try take your Ebike or Ninebot, today on a plane and you could get in serious trouble if they are not notified about the presence of lithium batteries and on board you can't carry more than about (don't quote me on this) about 50 watt hrs of battery.

the limit is 100WH in the hold I believe. many airlines however won't accept anything with a big battery in the hold. but if you can take the battery out of the device you might get on board with a 100WH battery but again depends on the airline. until better/trusted certifications come in it's difficult to travel with anything like this.

BuffyBot

Folks, read the big stickies on the top of the forum.

Do not say you haven't been warned about being respectful and reasoned with each other..