Why is everyone going on strike?

KwackerJack

Jawgap wrote: »

Didn't the LUAS drivers kick all this off?

And aren't they a private company?

Operating a public contract, granted, but lots of private companies, my employer included, provide services into the public sector.

Very true but they held Dublin's transport system to ransom....again the parties involved folded under pressure from the people and government.

Say Mc Donalds workers or truck drivers etc went on strike do you think it woukd have the same effect or outcome.....no they would just draft in new employees and tell the others to hop along

Wanderer78

KwackerJack wrote: »

Say Mc Donalds workers or truck drivers etc went on strike do you think it woukd have the same effect or outcome.....no they would just draft in new employees and tell the others to hop along

and that would be good for the economy because?

KwackerJack

Wanderer78 wrote: »

and that would be good for the economy because?

It wouldn't be good, if all the trucks stopped hauling we wouldn't have much food left after a few days but do you think the company or the government would address the issues as quick as the public sector......I think not

Private sector won't strike because it won't get them anywhere

Wanderer78

KwackerJack wrote: »

It wouldn't be good, if all the trucks stopped hauling we wouldn't have much food left after a few days but do you think the company or the government would address the issues as quick as the public sector......I think not

Private sector won't strike because it won't get them anywhere

i believe theyre less likely to strike due to 'worker insecurity'!

KwackerJack

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i believe theyre less likely to strike due to 'worker insecurity'!

That insecurity comes from experience, knowing that your replaceable if you say boo to your superiors.

Public sector are fully aware they have the backing of the unions and cannot just be sacked

Wanderer78

KwackerJack wrote: »

That insecurity comes from experience, knowing that your replaceable if you say boo to your superiors.

Public sector are fully aware they have the backing of the unions and cannot just be sacked

worker insecurity comes from multiple places, debt is one of the biggest and potentially most dangerous, theres a reason why theres so much personal and sovereign debt around, it keeps people subdued and subservient. private sector workers are generally more exposed to this due to the less likelihood of union security. unions do have a positive role in society, these strikes are understandable but potentially dangerous to the long term health of our economy.

Jawgap

KwackerJack wrote: »

Very true but they held Dublin's transport system to ransom....again the parties involved folded under pressure from the people and government.

Say Mc Donalds workers or truck drivers etc went on strike do you think it woukd have the same effect or outcome.....no they would just draft in new employees and tell the others to hop along

What pressure did the government bring?

I thought if anything they were criticised for not bringing any pressure? Didn't Ross go AWOL during the whole debacle?

Idbatterim

or maybe we could tax corporations more, or even make sure they pay the bloody 12.5%, create a public banking system and/or keep the bloody banks nationalised so the profits can be put to use within our country

Get more from them and then what? spend it on more ****e? the less they have here, the less chance there is of them sending us back down the swanny as far as i am concerned.

I agree with you in theory on corporation tax, in practice though, it seems getting more out of them is difficult.

In terms of the banks, I agree with you, if its feasible and doesnt break competition rules etc. Whats the point in being there picking up the pieces for the bad times and removing yourself before they start creaming it in again?

Vizzy

Geuze wrote: »

Do you mean the banking crisis, which cost the taxpayer 64-65bn?

Yes, I thought it was around that sum alright .

So, one third of the debt was caused by 2 or 3 big players.
Amazing how those in the private sector forget that.

And it continues even today in simple things like the fact that the Gubberment is still providing funding for the like of unfinished estates while the "re-badged" developers are still sitting on huge tracts of land but wont build a thing on it until prices get back up to "bubble prices" again.

Any Investment bankers here ?

Bass Reeves

Vizzy wrote: »

Yes, I thought it was around that sum alright .

So, one third of the debt was caused by 2 or 3 big players.
Amazing how those in the private sector forget that.

And it continues even today in simple things like the fact that the Gubberment is still providing funding for the like of unfinished estates while the "re-badged" developers are still sitting on huge tracts of land but wont build a thing on it until prices get back up to "bubble prices" again.

Any Investment bankers here ?

It is less than that. It is now calculated that the Banking crisis will cost less than 50 billion. You have to remember that in 2006 we had a national debt of less than 50 billion. However now we owe 205 billion and will add another 2 billion to it next year. You also have to remember that 12-15 billion was taken out of the national pension fund. So all in all from 2006 we have spend about 170 billion more than we bough in from tax revenue. Less than 50 billion will end up from the banking crisis. About 15-20 billion will come back from the sale of AIB and BOI that is where the 60 billion cost comes from. That means we spend 110 billion on national spending over last 10 years that we did not raise in tax.

What we had from 2002-2008 was a property driven bubble that caused wages to spiral. This was mainly driven by government allowing banks to lend up to 120% mortgages. The government and the local authorities were delighted with tax revenues and instead of slowing down the bubble they heated it up and added oil to the fire. They pumped money into public services and capital development works. In those 6 years the PS grew by 40% I think and wages went up by over 40% as well. So when the crash came we were all over the place.

It is a government job to control the economy and when the economy is growing too fast to take the heat out of it. The government could sort the housing crisis by taking action by using property taxes and site taxes to force builders to use up such land. it could rezone land stc. but government need the tax from property to pay PS pay increases and social welfare and other spending.

It is all very well to say cost of living is higher is Ireland it is higher for the private sector as well. Yet it has no where near the same difference in wages compared to the EU. Even with that those in the Irish private sector work harder compared to other EU countries. The same can not be said for the PS where hours are shorter than the EU norm and holidays longers especially for teachers.

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

Get more from them and then what? spend it on more ****e? the less they have here, the less chance there is of them sending us back down the swanny as far as i am concerned.

I agree with you in theory on corporation tax, in practice though, it seems getting more out of them is difficult.

In terms of the banks, I agree with you, if its feasible and doesnt break competition rules etc. Whats the point in being there picking up the pieces for the bad times and removing yourself before they start creaming it in again?

if i had my way, id be plowing this money back into our public services, i.e. start building more social houses, the current situation is disturbing to watch regarding housing, beef up our public health services etc, public transport etc etc.

yup, this corporation tax situation wont be easy to solve at all, but most other countries are having the same if not similar problem. we need joined up thinking on how to tackle it. we cant keep taxing the working classes when we need more public money, its just not sustainable

public banking is allowed under lisbon treaty (i think?), i assume this was put in place to facilitate germany's own public bank, the sparkasse savings bank. one of the main reasons why im a believer in public banking is the fact that the profits of the system effectively become a revenue stream for the region or country in which they reside, and can be used accordingly. this would take some pressure off the citizens of this country and would put our banks to good use.

unfortunately many of our politicians are stuck in the work of neoliberalism and free market crapology, so we could be waiting for this stuff to happen if ever.

amacca

Bass Reeves wrote: »

holidays longers especially for teachers.

Holidays may be longer but class contact hours are also longer than most not mentioning comparing like for like in terms of class sizes, resources, backup for SEN, cost of living in these counties, public transport, housing provision and social/healthcare provision etc etc

http://www.oecd.org/edu/Education-at-a-Glance-2014.pdf

Vizzy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What we had from 2002-2008 was a property driven bubble that caused wages to spiral. This was mainly driven by government allowing banks to lend up to 120% mortgages. The government and the local authorities were delighted with tax revenues and instead of slowing down the bubble they heated it up and added oil to the fire. They pumped money into public services and capital development works. In those 6 years the PS grew by 40% I think and wages went up by over 40% as well. So when the crash came we were all over the place.

Property bubble or not, there was nobody in any sector criticising local authorities for proving better roads or water and wastewater treatment systems in advance of anticipated development.
The likes of roads would have a typical life of about 70 years so we have about 60 years before they need to be provided from scratch again. Also, a lot of the cost associated with their construction relates to cost of compensation for land. Again the private developers were to the fore in exploiting this to the full.

I don't know where you are getting the figure of wages increasing by 40% from 2002 to 2008, and maybe it is accurate but I can assure you that my wages did not increase by anything like that %. In fact, my wage has not increased at all since 2006 !!

noodler

Jawgap wrote: »

"Public sector pay deals will lead to fresh fiscal disaster"

Pity Colm wasn't so clairvoyant roundabout 2007......plus, really? Shouldn't this be headlined "Economist who works closely with government promotes government line in noted anti-public service rag"?

No, it shouldn't.

Just because it's saying something that doesn't for your agenda doesn't mean it should.be discounted based on a cursory glance.at the title and author's name.

evolving_doors

KwackerJack wrote: »

That insecurity comes from experience, knowing that your replaceable if you say boo to your superiors.

Public sector are fully aware they have the backing of the unions and cannot just be sacked

Do you think being represented by a union is a bad thing?
There's unions in the private sector too BTW!

STB.

PeadarCo wrote: »

Could you stop deflecting and actually address the arguments in the article. All your doing is casting aspersions on Colm McCarthys cridentials. But you don't actually seem to have a counter point to his actual points. If you disagree with his economic views surely your capable of countering them on economic terms.

My reading of it is that the argument is that public pay increases are unaffordable or if affordable only in the best case economic scenario(remember the idea of house prices only ever going up). The only way long term way of affording the demands is by increased taxes. Which is grand but no politician or union is advocating that.

I do believe its pay restoration that the PS workers are looking for, not pay increases.

The average pay for PS workers in Ireland is 16% below EU averages.

Colm McCarthy is a crank. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Where was he between 2006-2008. He's no Morgan Kelly, that's for sure.

BoJack Horseman

STB. wrote: »

The average pay for PS workers in Ireland is 16% below EU averages

Yet is still a beefy €48k per year!
Which is a full €16k higher than the average private sector salary

Never understood the poor mouth argument from the PS.... if the 300k working in the public sector have it so hard then the 1.7m private workers are seemingly destitute!

STB.

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yet is still a beefy €48k per year!
Which is a full €16k higher than the average private sector salary

Never understood the poor mouth argument from the PS.... if the 300k working in the public sector have it so hard then the 1.7m private workers are seemingly destitute!

Where did you pick those figures from ?

Your backside, I would imagine.

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of the PS. But FEMPI must be a bitter pill to swallow when the private sector and bank employees are taking pay increases and these guys are looking for pay restoration!

There was a time 2010 when PS workers enjoyed a 1.3 percent premium after the pension levy was deducted. Since 2010, hourly earnings in the private sector rose by 1.6 percent; in the public sector they fell by 2.8 percent. So what little gap there was in 2010 is probably gone and even gone negative for public sector employees.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2016/04/open-season-on-public-sector-pay-again.html

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq12016finalq22016preliminaryestimates/

Bass Reeves

STB. wrote: »

Where did you pick those figures from ?

Your backside, I would imagine.

Far be it for me to speak on behalf of the PS. But FEMPI must be a bitter pill to swallow when the private sector and bank employees are taking pay increases and these guys are looking for pay restoration!

There was a time 2010 when PS workers enjoyed a 1.3 percent premium after the pension levy was deducted. Since 2010, hourly earnings in the private sector rose by 1.6 percent; in the public sector they fell by 2.8 percent. So what little gap there was in 2010 is probably gone and even gone negative for public sector employees.

http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2016/04/open-season-on-public-sector-pay-again.html

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq12016finalq22016preliminaryestimates/

I think you want to look at the figures you gave links to.

For Q2 2016 average weekly earning in the Public Sector (when you exclude tempory census takers) was 918.58/week

For Q2 2016 average weekly earnings in the private sector was 644.98/week

Jawgap

noodler wrote: »

No, it shouldn't.

Just because it's saying something that doesn't for your agenda doesn't mean it should.be discounted based on a cursory glance.at the title and author's name.

I'm not discounting it, just questioning how can he be so definitive.

Look, he's not publishing in an academic journal - it's a once great newspaper that has been reduced to being a rag. It also takes an anti-PS editorial position.

Do you think when the subbie rang him to commission the piece he said "Colm, can we have a few hundred words analysing how public sector pay might be dealt with in as cost-neutral, fiscally responsible way as possible?" or "Colm, can we have a few hundred words discussing the tax rises required to fund this thing?"

I doubt McCarthy wrote the headline. In fact, I'd say the subbie did - but let's not pretend its coming from a neutral position.

Jawgap

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you want to look at the figures you gave links to.

For Q2 2016 average weekly earning in the Public Sector (when you exclude tempory census takers) was 918.58/week

For Q2 2016 average weekly earnings in the private sector was 644.98/week

Why exclude the Census enumerators? Were they not public sector employees/contractors? Does the figure for the private sector exclude temporary workers retained for specific purpose contracts of definite duration?

evolving_doors

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yet is still a beefy €48k per year!
Which is a full €16k higher than the average private sector salary

Never understood the poor mouth argument from the PS.... if the 300k working in the public sector have it so hard then the 1.7m private workers are seemingly destitute!

Who's on 48k?
Like a surgeon in the Mater hospital?
Or a teacher starting off on part time temporary hours?

If the private sector have it so hard then they'd be mad not to get a public sector job no? (many would have to go to college for a few years though!)

KwackerJack

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Do you think being represented by a union is a bad thing?
There's unions in the private sector too BTW!

No it's not a bad thing but in my experience a private sector worker in a unions is sometimes not a good thing depending on the employer!!

Some private companies hate them as you may know!

BoJack Horseman

STB. wrote: »

Where did you pick those figures from ?

Your backside, I would imagine

Guess what buddy.....

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq12016finalq22016preliminaryestimates/

Thank you for the assist!
Saves me the effort of doing so...... top gun posting right there.

Though the updated figures do show that I was off a bit.
As of Q2 2016 the public service enjoyed an average wage of just €13.5k higher than the private sector, currently at €47k per year

Poor things!

evolving_doors

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Guess what buddy.....



Thank you for the assist!
Saves me the effort of doing so...... top gun posting right there.

Though the updated figures do show that I was off a bit.
As of Q2 2016 the public service enjoyed an average wage of just €13.5k higher than the private sector, currently at €47k per year

Poor things!

So what, you are comparing averages between different jobs. Guess what, the average private sector engineer gets paid more than the average salon worker.

What you failed to notice that the number of people who enter into the public sector have a higher level of education (as per the demands of those jobs.. Not all.. But more than the private sector)
So... What happens next will amaze you... They get paid more..

Basically, go to college get paid more.

Maybe just compare the incomes of third level graduates in the public vs' private sector!

Otherwise it's apples vs' oranges and folk will never be happy that the nurse gets more than the unskilled private sector job.

STB.

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Guess what buddy.....

Thank you for the assist!
Saves me the effort of doing so...... top gun posting right there.

Though the updated figures do show that I was off a bit.
As of Q2 2016 the public service enjoyed an average wage of just €13.5k higher than the private sector, currently at €47k per year

Poor things!

If you cannot understand how to read the figures, I cannot help you.

You can take what you think are apples and compare them to oranges and then stick that in bold to try and prove what you thought in your head, but it just proves you do not understand how to decipher the figures in the first instance.

You must be an economist, buddy.

Gebgbegb

Gebgbegb wrote: »

So what, you are comparing averages between different jobs. Guess what, the average private sector engineer gets paid more than the average salon worker.

What you failed to notice that the number of people who enter into the public sector have a higher level of education (as per the demands of those jobs.. Not all.. But more than the private sector)
So... What happens next will amaze you... They get paid more..

Basically, go to college get paid more.

Maybe just compare the incomes of third level graduates in the public vs' private sector!

Otherwise it's apples vs' oranges and folk will never be happy that the nurse gets more than the unskilled private sector job.

Typical public sector flip flopping. I'd expect nothing else.

One minute the salaries are higher due to the nature of the job (Garda). Next minute, it is due to the education requirements.

So tell me, where in the private sector can someone with 5 D3 at Ordinary Level earn as €40,000+ after 7 years ?

BoJack Horseman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yet is still a beefy €48k per year!
Which is a full €16k higher than the average private sector salary

Never understood the poor mouth argument from the PS.... if the 300k working in the public sector have it so hard then the 1.7m private workers are seemingly destitute!

Those in the public sector simply do not give a shi*t about the lower paid majority in the private sector.

Jawgap

salonfire wrote: »

Typical public sector flip flopping. I'd expect nothing else.

One minute the salaries are higher due to the nature of the job (Garda). Next minute, it is due to the education requirements.

So tell me, where in the private sector can someone with 5 D3 at Ordinary Level earn as €40,000+ after 7 years ?

Ryanair or any airline.

Mate of mine is a senior captain with Eti Had - failed his leaving cert and cleared off to the US - took him 2 years to get his ATPL, then a few years with South West before becoming a captain with Ryanair - currently Ryanair are paying non-rated captains €59,000 pa on a 5 on / 4 off basis for 80 flying hours per month.

STB.

STB. wrote: »

I do believe its pay restoration that the PS workers are looking for, not pay increases.

The average pay for PS workers in Ireland is 16% below EU averages.

Colm McCarthy is a crank. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Where was he between 2006-2008. He's no Morgan Kelly, that's for sure.

More twisting and squirming from the public sector, makes for horrible reading.

When pay went down during the crash, how come it was a 'pay cut' then? Why not refer to a 're-adjustment' to match decreased economic activity?

Reverse it and now it is not a 'pay rise'?

Where's the logic in that?

Jawgap

salonfire wrote: »

More twisting and squirming from the public sector, makes for horrible reading.

When pay went down during the crash, how come it was a 'pay cut' then? Why not refer to a 're-adjustment' to match decreased economic activity?

Reverse it and now it is not a 'pay rise'?

Where's the logic in that?

HRA at clause 2.26 discusses restoration......

For those on salaries (inclusive of allowances in the nature of pay) above €65,000 to the max of the Principal (higher) scale or equivalent in the civil service or similar across the Public Service, the reduction in pay above will be restored to the pay rate that they would have had, but for the pay reduction, within a maximum of 18 months of the end of this 3 year Agreement between the parties which is intended to commence with effect from 1st July 2013. The restoration will be in two equal phases – the first after 9 months and the second 9 months later.

.....restoration is the word/concept used in the Agreement, not something conjured up as a semantic device.

fliball123

Geuze wrote: »

Fiscal deficits each year, over many years, due to spending exceeding revenue.

up until 2008 we had a surplus do you not remember the <snip.SSIAs <snip>they were invented as there was too much money gushing around so it was built up in under a decade so once again 40 billion for the banks take that away from the the total we owe which is 206billion leaves 166billion what was that money borrowed for in who's name..The 2 areas that are the main culprits are ps pay and pensions and welfare

Mod note:

Language, and please don't make things personsal.

fliball123

STB. wrote: »

I do believe its pay restoration that the PS workers are looking for, not pay increases.

The average pay for PS workers in Ireland is 16% below EU averages.

Colm McCarthy is a crank. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Where was he between 2006-2008. He's no Morgan Kelly, that's for sure.

These unions have a double speak ala

increments (do not equal) pay rises
pension levy (does not equal) a contribution to a defined contribution
Equal pay for equal work (means pay rises and not a pay cut for those on the higher wage and who are over paid)
Garda rent allowance (even do some live at home, own their own home and do not rent and paid anywhere in the country no matter how inexpensive it is to live)
Garda holiday insurance pay(even if the gard does not have to change their holidays)
Pay restoration (does not equal) a pay rise.

We here in the private sector nearly need a translator to keep up with <snip> that is coming out of union members mouths.

fliball123

STB. wrote: »

I do believe its pay restoration that the PS workers are looking for, not pay increases.

The average pay for PS workers in Ireland is 16% below EU averages.

Colm McCarthy is a crank. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Where was he between 2006-2008. He's no Morgan Kelly, that's for sure.

Have you any stats to back that up or did you just pull it out of <snip>

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

HRA at clause 2.26 discusses restoration......



.....restoration is the word/concept used in the Agreement, not something conjured up as a semantic device.

Exactly what I am saying.

A document for the public sector containing double speak.

Should the government also 'restore' the salaries of all the workers who lost their jobs during the down turn.

Jawgap

salonfire wrote: »

Exactly what I am saying.

A document for the public sector containing double speak.

Should the government also 'restore' the salaries of all the workers who lost their jobs during the down turn.

The Public Sector didn't write it

It was the output from a process of negotiation.

And parties to an agreement negotiated in good faith should honour its terms.

I don't know about the private sector, but should 30% or so of my former colleagues who had their contracts terminated of not picked up, were coerced into resigning or retiring etc be restored to their jobs?

It's a fiction that the PS lost no jobs during the down turn.....they just didn't shed them through redundancy.

Charles Babbage

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you want to look at the figures you gave links to.

For Q2 2016 average weekly earning in the Public Sector (when you exclude tempory census takers) was 918.58/week

For Q2 2016 average weekly earnings in the private sector was 644.98/week

On average people have one testicle and one breast. Nobody I know is described individually by this average.

fliball123 wrote: »

increments (do not equal) pay rises

payments for experience are not the same as increases in the rate, in either the private or public sector.

pension levy (does not equal) a contribution to a defined contribution

That would be because the legislation specifically states that it is not a pension contribution.

Equal pay for equal work (means pay rises and not a pay cut for those on the higher wage and who are over paid)

Even those on the higher wage are on a pay cut!

Pay restoration (does not equal) a pay rise

Quite correct, there is no net gain.

We here in the private sector nearly need a translator to keep up with <snip> that is coming out of union members mouths.

Perhaps comprehension would be less of a problem for you if you had paid more attention at school, or had managed to go to third level, and had the benefit of some education by public servants.

fliball123

Charles Babbage wrote: »

On average people have one testicle and one breast. Nobody I know is described individually by this average.




payments for experience are not the same as increases in the rate, in either the private or public sector.



That would be because the legislation specifically states that it is not a pension contribution.



Even those on the higher wage are on a pay cut!



Quite correct, there is no net gain.



Perhaps comprehension would be less of a problem for you if you had paid more attention at school, or had managed to go to third level, and had the benefit of some education by public servants.

Well my friend add up Brexit and Trump the winds of change are about and if ever this country gets a decent voice for the squeezed middle who are not affiliated with self interest groups like the public sector there will be a massive change in this country. People are tired of the same crap where the establishment are only looking after themselves with nepotism seen as the norm instead of an ugly truth.

These people are tired of all sides as in the rich ala banks and politicians and the poor ala career welfare types and the ugly ala the public sector unions all sticking their collective bargaining , over manicured and long fingered hands into their pockets and basically raping them. I will give it 5 years and there will be a genuine right alternative here in power as the people I am taking about are just not being listened to and the current paradigm is not working

Vizzy

fliball123 wrote: »

Well my friend add up Brexit and Trump the winds of change are about and if ever this country gets a decent voice for the squeezed middle who are not affiliated with self interest groups like the public sector there will be a massive change in this country. People are tired of the same crap where the establishment are only looking after themselves with nepotism seen as the norm instead of an ugly truth.

These people are tired of all sides as in the rich ala banks and politicians and the poor ala career welfare types and the ugly ala the public sector unions all sticking their collective bargaining , over manicured and long fingered hands into their pockets and basically raping them. I will give it 5 years and there will be a genuine right alternative here in power as the people I am taking about are just not being listened to and the current paradigm is not working

Would you like a "Trump character" running this country ?

Where will we start to build the wall ? Around Dublin maybe and that way we can keep all the illegal aliens out.

I suppose that it would at least provide some much needed employment for all the Private Sector brickies and plasterers who haven't worked since 2008.

fliball123

Vizzy wrote: »

Would you like a "Trump character" running this country ?

Where will we start to build the wall ? Around Dublin maybe and that way we can keep all the illegal aliens out.

I suppose that it would at least provide some much needed employment for all the Private Sector brickies and plasterers who haven't worked since 2008.

I would rather anything than the status quo. Did I say anything about illegal aliens. I have no bother with foreigners coming here and working and integrating with our native culture.

The fact is the current paradigm is not working and not only here but all over the first world

Vizzy

fliball123 wrote: »

I would rather anything than the status quo. Did I say anything about illegal aliens. I have no bother with foreigners coming here and working and integrating with our native culture.

The fact is the current paradigm is not working and not only here but all over the first world

That is why I asked you if you wanted a Trump character running the country.
You may have no difficulty with foreigners coming to the country but apparently Mr Trump, and presumably a "Trump character", has a major difficulty with them.
As regards "anything rather than the status quo" , presumably you don't want FG/FF/Labour running the country, so are you advocating the likes of Sinn Fein and a load of disparate Independants ( Richard Boyd Barrett/Mattie McGrath/ the Healy Rae's etc) ?

fliball123

Vizzy wrote: »

That is why I asked you if you wanted a Trump character running the country.
You may have no difficulty with foreigners coming to the country but apparently Mr Trump, and presumably a "Trump character", has a major difficulty with them.
As regards "anything rather than the status quo" , presumably you don't want FG/FF/Labour running the country, so are you advocating the likes of Sinn Fein and a load of disparate Independants ( Richard Boyd Barrett/Mattie McGrath/ the Healy Rae's etc) ?

Trump only wants people coming into the country to be legal go through all the documentation and the process that exists and that is how Ireland should be as well we should not have any foreigners here who are here to take advantage of welfare or anything else if a foreigner comes to this country they must work to sustain themselves and adjust to the Irish way of life

del_c

Today is surely a game changer though - public sector wage inflation will have to be stopped in its tracks given all the uncertainty

Idbatterim

Would you like a "Trump character" running this country ?

Where will we start to build the wall ? Around Dublin maybe and that way we can keep all the illegal aliens out.

I suppose that it would at least provide some much needed employment for all the Private Sector brickies and plasterers who haven't worked since 2008.

a trump character? a billionaire business man with real world experience who has also just won the US election? yeah he must be the real idiot that people on boards make him out to be. I am so much happier with that teacher - career politician joke we call our Taoiseach....

A wall isnt a bad idea either, keep the billions that flow out of Dublin in euro every year, in Dublin. Sure doesnt Dublin get everything? Maybe its time counties had to fund themselves, we can then sort dublins issues out in no time.

And fliball, for what its worth you hit the nail on the head, when FG, the party I voted for, the party that claimed there would be change and fiscal prudence, buckling under the slightest bit of pressure, they have lost all credibility with me. Christ, they cant sort out the unions quick enough and then Leo Varadkar, goes handing out E5 to already ridiculous welfare payments. This Leo Varadkar, from our so called "right wing" party. To get the equivalent of E5 a week from government back in the form of a USC cut, I would need to be earning €52,000, €52,000 f**cking euro!

Today is surely a game changer though - public sector wage inflation will have to be stopped in its tracks given all the uncertainty

I wanted trump to win. For several reasons. One of which is what you allude to above, it may stop the exact same mistakes being made here again. The less money we have, the less damage can be inflicted on us I would argue. Put it this way, I dont think its on having nearly two million private sector workers having no voice... while because the ps can abuse their position, the government simply keep on capitulating...

the best thing that could happen now, is a slump in growth, all bets are off...

Gumbo

As usual, the people of this country fight with each other (typical Irish begrudgery), all the while the politicians vote in a 5k wage increase for themselves.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

As usual, the people of this country fight with each other (typical Irish begrudgery), all the while the politicians vote in a 5k wage increase for themselves.

Some of the long term gardai (already well paid) are also in line to get close to a 5k increase.

And there's a lot more of them. Which is costing everyone more than politicians

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

As usual, the people of this country fight with each other (typical Irish begrudgery), all the while the politicians vote in a 5k wage increase for themselves.

This is where your getting your direction wrong..Its simply people coming to the realisation that the protected cohort that is the public sector want pay rises and in order to get them the will put a gun to the head of the tax payer. The tax payer who is not affiliated with the public sector now understand that a pay rise to this cohort means a pay cut to him or herself or is kicked down the road to their kids with a lot of additional interest.

So as long as this cohort of public sector unions are trying to hoist a pay cut on me i will fight with them is that ok with you?

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Some of the long term gardai (already well paid) are also in line to get close to a 5k increase.

And there's a lot more of them. Which is costing everyone more than politicians

Where are you getting this from??
What gardai are getting a 5k increase?

fliball123

bubblypop wrote: »

Where are you getting this from??
What gardai are getting a 5k increase?

the rent allowance being restored 4k and a 15 Euro per holiday allowance incase the gard has to give up their holiday to be in court or somewhere else on the job. But they get this regardless of if it happens or not so that 15 * 30. They get the rent allowance even if they still live at home with mammy.

Jep Gambardella

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

That's only to be expected. There's not that many low-skilled jobs left in the public sector. In short, there's no one flipping burgers in the public sector.

Plenty of people being extremely well paid for basic administration roles.