Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

steddyeddy

The Spanish and Dutch accuse UK of loosing cool before the Brexit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127

A Dub in Glasgo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Just like in Theory the UK government can stop a Scottish referendum on independence, .

That is the reality we are facing and the other reality is the Sewel Convention is not legally enforcable

Christy42

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Spanish and Dutch accuse UK of loosing cool before the Brexit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127

In fairness most people are of the opinion the Brits have lost their cool. Massive escalation of the situation from them.

Remember this is in response to the fact that Spain have a veto in any trade deal the EU has with Gibraltar. That is all and seems fair enough given the amount of trade Gibraltar does with Spain. Talk of war or protecting sovereignty is at best a complete over reaction.

Professor Moriarty

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Spanish and Dutch accuse UK of loosing cool before the Brexit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127

As Widdicombe once said about Michael Howard, "there is something of the night about him." Howard is a dinosaur and an idiot. His fatuous ramblings should be taken in that context.

steddyeddy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As Widdicombe once said about Michael Howard, "there is something of the night about him." Howard is a dinosaur and an idiot. His fatuous ramblings should be taken in that context.

The thing is Downing st refused to condemn his remarks today.

Spain drums up EU support as Brexit row brews over Gibraltar

The EU will not back down in its support for Spain’s demands when it comes to the Rock of Gibraltar in Brexit negotiations, senior European diplomats have said.... The prime minister added that the British government would “never enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another state against their freely and democratically expressed wishes”

Ahem. Hong Kong? The British will always sell out when they're overpowered.

Former leader of the British Conservative party Michael Howard has said that Theresa May will show the 'same resolve' over Gibraltar as Margaret Thatcher did over the Falkland Islands....

They just don't get it. They think it's 1870 or something and they're still calling the shots. Delusional. That word keeps coming back again and again to describe them accurately.

Professor Moriarty

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing is Downing st refused to condemn his remarks today.

Can't think of a better way to shoot yourself in both feet. Threatening war before you start negotiating with people from whom you want far more than they want from you. The Little Englanders have become intoxicated by their own hubris.

Christy42

Christy42 wrote: »

Remember this is in response to the fact that Spain have a veto in any trade deal the EU has with Gibraltar. That is all and seems fair enough given the amount of trade Gibraltar does with Spain. Talk of war or protecting sovereignty is at best a complete over reaction.

Precisely. But by the time the British media and their Tory politicians twist it John Bull is feeling like a victim.

josip

Christy42 wrote: »

So you assumed. Should Germany also start talking about if the UK starts a bombing raids against them?..

Please read my 2 posts again and point out where I assumed this?
I originally asked a question because I was interested why some posters were discussing current military capabilities

josip wrote: »

Do people really believe that the EU would condone or ignore an illegal invasion of Gibraltar by Spain?
...

..twice,

josip wrote: »

...
I asked under what circumstances, if any, they think this military intervention would occur?
...

since after the first time I asked, some posters didn't understand that it was a question.

TheCitizen wrote: »

He just made it up

So I'll try asking one more time. Does any poster who earlier discussed the British military capability vis-a-vis a Gibraltar intervention, think that such a military intervention could occur for any reason other than a Spanish invasion? (Which l think everybody agrees is a ridiculous suggestion?)

Thomas__

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing is Downing st refused to condemn his remarks today.

Can't think of a better way to shoot yourself in both feet. Threatening war before you start negotiating with people from whom you want far more than they want from you. The Little Englanders have become intoxicated by their own hubris.

Mrs May and her puppets are running mad already. If one thinks it can´t go lower, there is always an idiot in or inclined to that govt who makes an even more insane remark. If that´s not the start of the decline of the UK, I wonder what else has to come yet to see them having a nervous breakdown and throwing fits by every threat they are dishing out. They seem to be thinking that there won´t be any interference from the other mad-head over in the USA cos he´s already talking about taking on North-Korea and start a war there.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy;103105853

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what the hell are you actually on about?

Probrably about the sabre rattling that the UK has produced in the last two days fred. We've seen the defense secretary, Howard and a former navy commander talk about how Britain's navy could destroy Spain. Fairly jingoistic stuff.
I'd be fairly worried if that wasn't the case.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

steddyeddy;103105853


Probrably about the sabre rattling that the UK has produced in the last two days fred. We've seen the defense secretary, Howard and a former navy commander talk about how Britain's navy could destroy Spain. Fairly jingoistic stuff.
I'd be fairly worried if that wasn't the case.

Unionist siege mentality again.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

steddyeddy;103105853


Probrably about the sabre rattling that the UK has produced in the last two days fred. We've seen the defense secretary, Howard and a former navy commander talk about how Britain's navy could destroy Spain. Fairly jingoistic stuff.
I'd be fairly worried if that wasn't the case.

Unionist siege mentality again.

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Falcon L

OFFS.

VinLieger

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm.

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Just a causal throwaway comment about murdering millions of people, no biggie

wes

steddyeddy wrote: »

The Spanish and Dutch accuse UK of loosing cool before the Brexit negotiations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39475127

There not wrong.......

catbear

There's a lot of delusion, Gove was out batting a few weeks ago about Mays suspected catholicism as if it were the 1530s again!

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

You have perfectly summed up the little Englander mentality. The sooner that Scotland gets away from this mess the better.

steddyeddy

catbear wrote: »

There's a lot of delusion, Gove was out batting a few weeks ago about Mays suspected catholicism as if it were the 1530s again!

Yes I've seen that. Gove, an educated man said this:

“Britain’s path to preeminence in the past followed our break with Catholicism and embrace of the Reformation. We pursued a global, maritime, buccaneering, individualistic, liberal destiny — the spirit of our capitalism was infused with a very Protestant ethic. Now that we are once more freeing ourselves from a conformist Continent to make our own way in the world the question of whether we need to be more radical to maximise opportunities or more cautious to reassure and protect is central to our politics.”

It is a simple fact as evidenced by politicians in the UK and posters here that the British Empire was a noble cause and is ethos should be preserved.

Thomas__

steddyeddy wrote: »

catbear wrote: »

There's a lot of delusion, Gove was out batting a few weeks ago about Mays suspected catholicism as if it were the 1530s again!

Yes I've seen that. Gove, an educated man said this:

“Britain’s path to preeminence in the past followed our break with Catholicism and embrace of the Reformation. We pursued a global, maritime, buccaneering, individualistic, liberal destiny — the spirit of our capitalism was infused with a very Protestant ethic. Now that we are once more freeing ourselves from a conformist Continent to make our own way in the world the question of whether we need to be more radical to maximise opportunities or more cautious to reassure and protect is central to our politics.”

It is a simple fact as evidenced by politicians in the UK and posters here that the British Empire was a noble cause and is ethos should be preserved.

He´s as well like his mates talking utter sh1te and it is exactly this what attracts many Brexiteers to follow that crap, deludud to the hilt and dreaming of an gone Empire that was everything but that what this man thinks and says it was.

wes

steddyeddy wrote: »

It is a simple fact as evidenced by politicians in the UK and posters here that the British Empire was a noble cause and is ethos should be preserved.

Honestly, the Brits are as bad as the Japanese and the Turks, when its comes to addmission of there past crimes.

steddyeddy

josip wrote: »

So I'll try asking one more time. Does any poster who earlier discussed the British military capability vis-a-vis a Gibraltar intervention, think that such a military intervention could occur for any reason other than a Spanish invasion? (Which l think everybody agrees is a ridiculous suggestion?)

No I don't, hence the extreme stupidity of the British threat. There is no threat of invasion so there was no need to talk about crippling Madrid.

Sinn Fein are in talks in Northern Ireland at the moment. Do you think it would be wise for them to randomly bring up the fact that they could bomb London to smithereens if they don't get their way? That's exactly what the British are doing. Issuing provocative threats.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

You have perfectly summed up the little Englander mentality. The sooner that Scotland gets away from this mess the better.

 I am glad that May would be willing to defend the rights of the people of Gibraltar with military force if needs be. You would have thought the Spanish would have learned the lessons of the Armada and that pillock Phillip II. I think May needs to keep in mind that you can't trust the damn French and Spanish.

Thomas__

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

You have perfectly summed up the little Englander mentality. The sooner that Scotland gets away from this mess the better.

The inferiority complex of them is breaking through by such comments, as to see in the post you´ve quoted from this other poster. I think that this has all been under the surface all along and now breaks out like a disease.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

 I am glad that May would be willing to defend the rights of the people of Gibraltar with military force if needs be. You would have thought the Spanish would have learned the lessons of the Armada and that pillock Phillip II. I think May needs to keep in mind that you can't trust the damn French and Spanish.

I think the Spanish have moved on from the days of armada and empire. I reall think you Brits should move on too. It's not healthy.

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

Ahem. Hong Kong? The British will always sell out when they're overpowered.

In fairness, their lease on HK had an expiry date.

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Good luck with that one, would be interesting to see which of NATO or the EU would destroy the UK first were they to try such a thing.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

You have perfectly summed up the little Englander mentality. The sooner that Scotland gets away from this mess the better.

do me a favour.

Step out in to the streets and share your patronising, self righteous views with the English people you live and work with.

For a laugh

Fratton Fred

First Up wrote: »

In fairness, their lease on HK had an expiry date.

aah, now you're just letting facts get in the way of one of Fauranach's rants.

Thomas__

A Little Pony wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

You have perfectly summed up the little Englander mentality. The sooner that Scotland gets away from this mess the better.

 I am glad that May would be willing to defend the rights of the people of Gibraltar with military force if needs be. You would have thought the Spanish would have learned the lessons of the Armada and that pillock Phillip II. I think May needs to keep in mind that you can't trust the damn French and Spanish.

I think that your posts are either becoming more ridiculous or insufferable and I am yet to decide which one it is. It´s people like you who have learned nothing from history, really nothing and worse than this, refuse to accept that the past is gone for ever, never to return. But do continue with that bull crap of yours for this might bring even more Scots to vote for Independence in order to leave that sinking ship by the name "UK".

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

do me a favour.

Step out in to the streets and share your patronising, self righteous views with the English people you live and work with.

For a laugh

Do me a favor. Deal with the poster who talks about empire and flattening Madrid. Deal with your own views of the empire first rather than attack people who criticise such lunacy.

A Little Pony

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Good luck with that one, would be interesting to see which of NATO or the EU would destroy the UK first were they to try such a thing.

We can call on Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin's glorious Red Army.

ambro25

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing is Downing st refused to condemn his remarks today.

There's a lot of things Downing st has refused to condemn since June last year.

More than enough to make any reasonable and level-headed democrat blush.

Like mainstream broadsheets branding the country's own judiciairy "enemies of the people", as one of the more representative, albeit far from exhaustive, examples.

After the amount of air and column time given by Brit MSM to Howard's dumbtastic testiculating at the weekend, methinks there's going to be a Himalaya of examples, by the time April 2019 is around the corner.

But well...you can look forward to more jokes from Bojo The Clown, and more some senior-grade hand waving from Davis.

Thomas__

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Good luck with that one, would be interesting to see which of NATO or the EU would destroy the UK first were they to try such a thing.

Don´t forget Trump, the "Donald" in all this, he might stand idly by and don´t give a fiddlers about the Brits, NATO and the EU altogether. Remember, the Brits once had the backing of the USA in the Falklands crisis (well, they had to beg them for support for Reagan wasn´t that keen to back them up on a war footing in the first place).

Thomas__

A Little Pony wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

For the glory of England and her Empire ma'm. 

Spain have no chance of taking Gibraltar unless they want Madrid flattened.

Good luck with that one, would be interesting to see which of NATO or the EU would destroy the UK first were they to try such a thing.

We can call on Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin's glorious Red Army.

Well, that´s enough of your claptrap, you´re going to end up on my ignore list, that´s where your posts belong too.

oppenheimer1

First Up wrote: »

In fairness, their lease on HK had an expiry date.

Actually that is only partially true. Hong Kong island was ceded in perpetuity to the British, but the area known as the New Territories (NT) was leased. The British felt that the colony wouldn't be viable without the NT as a large amount of the population lived there and was also the location of vital infrastructure such as water and waste water treatment plants. They then decided to hand the whole lot back to the Chinese.

Thomas__

ambro25 wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing is Downing st refused to condemn his remarks today.

There's a lot of things Downing st has refused to condemn since June last year.

More than enough to make any reasonable and level-headed democrat blush.

Like mainstream broadsheets branding the country's own judiciairy "enemies of the people", as one of the more representative, albeit far from exhaustive, examples.

After the amount of air and column time given by Brit MSM to Howard's dumbtastic testiculating at the weekend, methinks there's going to be a Himalaya of examples, by the time April 2019 is around the corner.

But well...you can look forward to more jokes from Bojo The Clown, and more some senior-grade hand waving from Davis.

Let´s hope that they will only be jokes, even bad ones as this politician is one of himself by the very performance of himself and the conduct of his office. It appears that the Brits are about to lose even the last esteem they still have in the world, given that this Muppet Show will run longer and until the final Exit date, 29 March 2019. I think that I´ll celebrate that date when they finally are gone and Europe is rid of the Brexiteers.

Christy42

josip wrote: »

Please read my 2 posts again and point out where I assumed this?
I originally asked a question because I was interested why some posters were discussing current military capabilities



..twice,



since after the first time I asked, some posters didn't understand that it was a question.



So I'll try asking one more time. Does any poster who earlier discussed the British military capability vis-a-vis a Gibraltar intervention, think that such a military intervention could occur for any reason other than a Spanish invasion? (Which l think everybody agrees is a ridiculous suggestion?)

So why discuss it then? Why bring up a discussion on who would or would not support a Spanish invasion when it is obviously not relevant? It is at best off topic at best.

Politicians should not discuss the possibility of war without some vague possibility of it happening. It is irresponsible and fosters bad relations. No one is talking about France invading Germany in the next few years. I am sure the German politicians agree that they would defend themselves in such a scenario but since there is a 0% chance of it happening there is no need to ruin relationships confirming it.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do me a favor. Deal with the poster who talks about empire and flattening Madrid. Deal with your own views of the empire first rather than attack people who criticise such lunacy.

how the **** do you know what my views are on empire?

oh yeah, you just base everything on your own preconceived views of what the English are.

Fratton Fred

Christy42 wrote: »

Politicians should not discuss the possibility of war without some vague possibility of it happening. It is irresponsible and fosters bad relations. No one is talking about France invading Germany in the next few years. I am sure the German politicians agree that they would defend themselves in such a scenario but since there is a 0% chance of it happening there is no need to ruin relationships confirming it.

no politicians have discussed the possibilities of war.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

no politicians have discussed the possibilities of war.

The secretary of defense has.

Thomas__

This is what it really was and is all about, but some old deluded man in Westminster is still living in the 1980s:

Mr Picardo insisted that the people of the territory would not be used as bargaining chips in trade negotiations.
"The issue has been an attempt made by Spain in the draft to single out Gibraltar for negative treatment if there is ... a new trade deal in future between the UK and the EU which relates to services and which otherwise have been applicable to Gibraltar," the chief minister told the BBC.
"That's the issue. It's not an issue relating to Gibraltar's sovereignty."

https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2017/0403/864755-gibraltar-britain-spain/

It appears that the warmonger isn´t in Madrid but in London.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

The secretary of defense has.

have you listened to his interview on the Andrew Marr show?

A Little Pony

No one seriously thinks any war is going to happen. People jumping all over it, it deserves to have the piss taken out of it seeing the faux outrage over it. Spain isn't going to invade Gibraltar, if they know what is good for them that should be the Spanish stance.

It is all about trade.

elefant

A Little Pony wrote: »

No one seriously thinks any war is going to happen. People jumping all over it, it deserves to have the piss taken out of it seeing the faux outrage over it. Spain isn't going to invade Gibraltar, if they know what is good for them that should be the Spanish stance.

It is all about trade.

So close. Almost got through one post without being incendiary.

josip

Christy42 wrote: »

So why discuss it then? Why bring up a discussion on who would or would not support a Spanish invasion when it is obviously not relevant? It is at best off topic at best
...

Which is exactly the reason I asked the question in the first place.
Well done Christy.

catbear

All this talk of war is just a fumbling with the trinkets of empire that still rattle around in their collective memory.

What is concerning is this war mongering hitting street level in England.

Christy42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

no politicians have discussed the possibilities of war.

Apologies. Ex politicians statements that the current ones have to denounce then.

As well as some of the more sensationalist media but they are always terrible and looking for a reaction (not like May could control them anyway).

Plus I am less than certain as to what they mean by protecting the sovereignty when it is not at risk. This is a trade deal, there is no need to talk about whether or not sovereignty will be protected. We are not saying Louth will have its sovereignty protected in the deal with the UK as it is not at risk.

Fratton Fred

Christy42 wrote: »

Apologies. Ex politicians statements that the current ones have to denounce then.

As well as some of the more sensationalist media but they are always terrible and looking for a reaction (not like May could control them anyway).

Plus I am less than certain as to what they mean by protecting the sovereignty when it is not at risk. This is a trade deal, there is no need to talk about whether or not sovereignty will be protected. We are not saying Louth will have its sovereignty protected in the deal with the UK as it is not at risk.

Michael Fallon was specifically asked the question, several times, so he answered it. He also goes to great lengths to point out that it is irrelevant because the sovereignty isn't being called in to question

https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/michael-fallon-insists-britain-is-behind-gibraltar-all-the-way-to-defend-its-sovereignty/

watch the interview.

josip

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Michael Fallon was specifically asked the question, several times, so he answered it. He also goes to great lengths to point out that it is irrelevant because the sovereignty isn't being called in to question

https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/michael-fallon-insists-britain-is-behind-gibraltar-all-the-way-to-defend-its-sovereignty/

watch the interview.

Ah Fred, stop trying to introduce facts.
It's much easier for people to have their bias confirmed by a "still beating your wife?" line of questioning.