Drag Factor on Concept 2 rowing machine

RTighe

Hi

I was wondering if someone could explain the mechanics or how drag factor effects your rowing on a concept 2 machine?

its something I only looked at briefly today and I really don't understand its meaning or role in rowing, ie is it resistance (airflow / mechanical) weighted? etc.

many thanks

Rob

Edited to add a result from today,

2km 8.27 minutes and a drag factor I think of approx. 170 - 178

Alf Veedersane

It's the rate of deceleration of the flywheel. You should be setting it to be 120-130.

LuckyLloyd

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's the rate of deceleration of the flywheel. You should be setting it to be 120-130.

Meh, you should be setting it to whatever you prefer, whatever suits you as an athlete. A big strong person looking to stay behind their heartrate with a lower average SPM will want to use a higher drag factor, whereas someone less strong but with a better cardiovascular base might want to lower it as low as 130 and work at higher stroke rates.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/damper-setting-101

Once you understand the above however, there is no "right" setting. In an Indoor Concept II competition for example, you can set the drag factor to whatever you prefer yourself.

RTighe

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, you should be setting it to whatever you prefer, whatever suits you as an athlete. A big strong person looking to stay behind their heartrate with a lower average SPM will want to use a higher drag factor, whereas someone less strong but with a better cardiovascular base might want to lower it as low as 130 and work at higher stroke rates.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/damper-setting-101

Once you understand the above however, there is no "right" setting. In an Indoor Concept II competition for example, you can set the drag factor to whatever you prefer yourself.

Thanks Lloyd, as it stands I'm 6Ft 13St and moderately fit ( I think?!?) , so I've no idea as a base line what setting should be aiming for. I was hitting sub 10 mins last month and now onto sub 9 mins at the moment, the spm is around the 33 - 37 mark

Many thanks

Rob

Alf Veedersane

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, you should be setting it to whatever you prefer, whatever suits you as an athlete. A big strong person looking to stay behind their heartrate with a lower average SPM will want to use a higher drag factor, whereas someone less strong but with a better cardiovascular base might want to lower it as low as 130 and work at higher stroke rates.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/damper-setting-101

Once you understand the above however, there is no "right" setting. In an Indoor Concept II competition for example, you can set the drag factor to whatever you prefer yourself.

To clarify, I meant that would be considered a standard setting but you're right in that there's no right/wrong setting.

I don't bother setting anything since I'm only ever using the same machine in the gym anyway.

LuckyLloyd

RTighe wrote: »

Thanks Lloyd, as it stands I'm 6Ft 13St and moderately fit ( I think?!?) , so I've no idea as a base line what setting should be aiming for. I was hitting sub 10 mins last month and now onto sub 9 mins at the moment, the spm is around the 33 - 37 mark

Many thanks

Rob

Best thing you can do is play around with different Drag Factors. Before you start your rowing piece you can play around with the damper (the adjustable wheel on the side from 1 - 10) and go to Options -> View Drag Factor and try 10 - 15 strokes. The screen will show you the drag factor that corresponds to the setting.

Try 160, do a 2k (it sounds like you're rowing 2k's at the moment)
Try 140 the next time and so on until you feel most comfortable

There's no point me suggesting a Drag Factor. I focus on improving my 500m time and push a very high Drag Factor when racing - but I have no intentions of rowing on water. Alf has some excellent times for a lightweight and he uses ~130 as stated. It's all about picking something *you* feel best at.

Once you've chosen your preferred setting just make sure to train at that going forward as like any other training you want consistency of environmental factors over time so you can analyse progression.

Alf Veedersane

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lf has some excellent times for a lightweight and he uses ~130 as stated.

I don't set a drag factor because I've really just been using the same PM3 but I should check what it's at next time. I just set the damper at a setting that I feel is best.

But I used see on these threads about drag factor you should be setting it at hence the number I used as a gauge. You just need to find the drag factor that works for you and use that across different machines to keep a level of consistency between times.

PS - I think I'm a heavyweight now

RTighe

Many thanks for the responses folks,

I have the Damper on a high value 9 - 10 and generally my goal is to push myself to get the 2k done as well and as efficient as possible,

I'll try it on a 3-4 tonight and see what the time / spm is like.

thanks again.

Rob

Mellor

RTighe wrote: »

its something I only looked at briefly today and I really don't understand its meaning or role in rowing, ie is it resistance (airflow / mechanical) weighted?

2km 8.27 minutes and a drag factor I think of approx. 170 - 178

Just to add to the above, the drag is the resistance. It's created by airflow into the flywheel housing. That's why it's affected by factors other than the damper setting. An old Concept2 might have a build of dust and grin over he vents which has the same effect as lowering drag.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I used see on these threads about drag factor you should be setting it at hence the number I used as a gauge.

Some people have this (somewhat elitist) idea that the right setting is the one that replicates water the closest. Whether of not that makes sense for actual rowers training during the off season is one thing (it probably doesn't), but it's irrelevant for people training for indoor racing, general fitness, conditioning, weight loss, etc.
Besides, a lightweight will experience a much lighter drag on water compared to a heavyweight in the same boat.

Pick the weight that suits you and your goals the best imo. What ever feels the best.

RTighe

Mellor wrote: »

Just to add to the above, the drag is the resistance. It's created by airflow into the flywheel housing. That's why it's affected by factors other than the damper setting. An old Concept2 might have a build of dust and grin over he vents which has the same effect as lowering drag.


Some people have this (somewhat elitist) idea that the right setting is the one that replicates water the closest. Whether of not that makes sense for actual rowers training during the off season is one thing (it probably doesn't), but it's irrelevant for people training for indoor racing, general fitness, conditioning, weight loss, etc.
Besides, a lightweight will experience a much lighter drag on water compared to a heavyweight in the same boat.

Pick the weight that suits you and your goals the best imo. What ever feels the best.

Thanks for the above input, I did try the lower damper settings the other day and while the factor was lower, (113 - 118) the time was slower also, roughly a minute,

I'm going midway today to see what the result is,


thanks again everyone for their input

Rob

Mellor

A minute is a big drop off. Only a little bigger than me, so I'd guess 130 is a good number.
But that said, as I've gotten better at rowing a longer stroke I've dropped the drag. Which makes sense, with the whole work:Rom relationship that we see in deadlift, squat variations etc.

RTighe

Mellor wrote: »

A minute is a big drop off. Only a little bigger than me, so I'd guess 130 is a good number.
But that said, as I've gotten better at rowing a longer stroke I've dropped the drag. Which makes sense, with the whole work:Rom relationship that we see in deadlift, squat variations etc.

I'll give it another crack tonight and see how I do and post up the result,

my approach is purely as a beginner in pretty much all aspects of rowing, running lifting, etc. I am as green as they come! so everything's pretty interesting as it is!

RTighe

So went on yesterday and managed on a 4/5 to perform a 2 k in about 9 minutes,


what I have noticed is that if I have the damper on max setting I'm getting around 8.2 minutes, got that result this afternoon,

so it seems that if I have the damper up high I'm getting a faster time? (I don't know if this is a better result though)

if any one has any suggestions, even to mix things up a bit, always more than welcome and willing to try.

my next idea is to try 500m intervals with 30 seconds rest between them x 4 and see how I do with that

many thanks

Rob

Alf Veedersane

RTighe wrote: »

So went on yesterday and managed on a 4/5 to perform a 2 k in about 9 minutes,


what I have noticed is that if I have the damper on max setting I'm getting around 8.2 minutes, got that result this afternoon,

so it seems that if I have the damper up high I'm getting a faster time? (I don't know if this is a better result though)

if any one has any suggestions, even to mix things up a bit, always more than welcome and willing to try.

my next idea is to try 500m intervals with 30 seconds rest between them x 4 and see how I do with that

many thanks

Rob

Don't worry about what setting gets what time. Pick a setting that you feel works best for you and then set a time. Work away at that setting for your workouts.

RTighe

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Don't worry about what setting gets what time. Pick a setting that you feel works best for you and then set a time. Work away at that setting for your workouts.

Thanks Alf. probably over thinking the basics of it

Alf Veedersane

RTighe wrote: »

Thanks Alf. probably over thinking the basics of it

Not at all. There can be a lot to it and I reat through threads here on settings but ultimately, unless you're training for rowing specifically, then you want to just work on seeing what you feel most comfortable at and then working on improving at that.

RTighe

Ah no, the closest to a row boat id get is on the tv, this is just personal fitness and cardio, thanks for all the advice

Alf Veedersane

RTighe wrote: »

my next idea is to try 500m intervals with 30 seconds rest between them x 4 and see how I do with that

Just to go back to this, unless you either want your times to lengthen considerably over the last 2 intervals or you want to puke your ring up (or both) then I'd start with 60s rests, and then bring that down.

You want to push it and give just enough rest that you can push it across all the rest of your sets without times suffering massively, eg ~10s difference between slowest and fastest interval. Then as you improve at that, you can bring down rests.

RTighe

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just to go back to this, unless you either want your times to lengthen considerably over the last 2 intervals or you want to puke your ring up (or both) then I'd start with 60s rests, and then bring that down.

You want to push it and give just enough rest that you can push it across all the rest of your sets without times suffering massively, eg ~10s difference between slowest and fastest interval. Then as you improve at that, you can bring down rests.

thanks Alf,

so for example the 10 sec difference you mean is basically is if it takes me 2 mins to do 500m on my first intevral, then 1.55 to 2.05 for the other 3?


thanks again

Alf Veedersane

RTighe wrote: »

thanks Alf,

so for example the 10 sec difference you mean is basically is if it takes me 2 mins to do 500m on my first intevral, then 1.55 to 2.05 for the other 3?


thanks again

Not quite. Just that you want to be able to rest just enough that your times aren't slowing too much across the intervals. So if you have 1.55 for your best time that your slowest isn't 2.05.

It just means that your rests are too short and you aren't recovering enough to keep within a couple of seconds. But it's down to pacing yourself as well. So if you can go all out and do 500m in 1.50, be realistic and set a pace that's maybe 1.53-1.55 for 4 intervals and see if you can go hard and keep all four times within a small range while giving it a good go.

It's a 'suck it and see' kind of thing. You'll know if you've too much left in the tank or not enough

RTighe

cool ill try that on Tuesday, rest day tomorrow over did it today!

LuckyLloyd

Here's some training I did last week:





My objective is consistency, understanding that the volume and rest times will influence the pace I'm able to maintain. Now, this takes a while to get the hang of, but I think it's a reasonable goal to aim for.

RTighe

if i can get to sub 1.40 on a run like that id be over the moon!! sorry for all the questions on the machine, (its like a new toy to me!)

I'll do a few sets of 500 x 4 this week and see how I go.

appreciate it immensely folks

Alf Veedersane

^^

One of the things I learned from here is how to get a handle on gauging pace (thanks Lloyd) and after that it was working out how to keep a consistent pace that meant I'd worked hard across the intervals

RTighe

oh that's the area I reckon I will struggle with the most!!

Alf Veedersane

RTighe wrote: »

oh that's the area I reckon I will struggle with the most!!

It takes time to figure things out. But just keep working at it. I still haven't worked it out but I'm improving

RTighe

it'll take a while, only started paying attention to myself and begun the fitness training recently so learning a lot!

LuckyLloyd

RTighe wrote: »

if i can get to sub 1.40 on a run like that id be over the moon!! sorry for all the questions on the machine, (its like a new toy to me!)

I'll do a few sets of 500 x 4 this week and see how I go.

appreciate it immensely folks

No problem with the questions!

Try to hold around 2:00/500 the first time you do 500m intervals with a minute rest. See how you go with that and then adjust from there. Remember, you're not competing with anyone else - just with what you did yourself the last time you were on the rower. A little improvement each time, that's the aim.

RTighe

I'll post up the first attempt, ( or proved a linky) over the next few efforts,

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

^^

One of the things I learned from here is how to get a handle on gauging pace (thanks Lloyd) and after that it was working out how to keep a consistent pace that meant I'd worked hard across the intervals

Projected finish or Average/500m time is a key stat to have on the screen imo.

My way to being consistent is to start off fast, get average slightly ahead of my target pace (3-4 seconds), and then settle into a pace just behind the target pace. So the average drifts up towards the target.
Pace it right and average will meet the target right on cue (@ 0 metres)

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

Projected finish or Average/500m time is a key stat to have on the screen imo.

My way to being consistent is to start off fast, get average slightly ahead of my target pace (3-4 seconds), and then settle into a pace just behind the target pace. So the average drifts up towards the target.
Pace it right and average will meet the target right on cue (@ 0 metres)

I use that initially to set the pace and then just use the s/m setting to monitor pace for the rest of the row and I've found myself using the time/500m less, now I think of it but certainly important to use it to gauge pace

RTighe

Just thought i'd bump this for a progress report,

slowly managed to get to under 8.10mins for a 2 k dash, https://www.instagram.com/p/BMuGzKAhKpf/
really happy with it as I did it in a straight sprint, current aim now is to shave a second off per week.

so heres hoping!

Mellor

That looks like 1k time. Guessing you meant this one :D:D:D
https://www.instagram.com/p/BM_vDKbh0zz/
Good job, I've been avoiding a 1km timed session. Guess I'll do it this week

ckeo

The drag factor as a standard is set to 130-140 which resembles rowing in water closest. I would keep the drag around this for anything distance 1km or above.Any lower and you will struggle to get the spilt down. As you go under 1km you can increase the drag factor which should help get you faster times. As people have pointed out heavier you are the easier it is at higher drags. A 100kg person will find 180 easier for a 500m than a 70kg person. Find what suits you for the shorter distances but I would suggest staying around 130-140 for distance 1km plus.