Near Road Accident Legality Advice

rangler1

Muckit wrote: »

If we're being technical, reversing ANY vehicle onto a public rd is illegal. You waving him out doesn't make a blind bit of difference. He should everse into your yard and drive out.

I know it's illegal, that's not my point, just demonstrating just because can't see cars coming doesn't mean you can drive across the road.
Artic usually comes here in the dark, he'd be reversing to his left if he reversed in, handier the other way, last week he had a left hand drive and it worked better.......45ft 4 deck sheep trailer......takes a bit of room

dzer2

I drive a truck part time the amount of people I meet and get over taken by that haven't got a clue what they are doing is manic. Speed and this is my road attitude when you meet others driving on minor roads. Got asked one day what the hell I was doing on her road i told the LADY that I was delivering to a business about a mile away. The lady told me there was no such place on her road. While unloading the truck the same lady drove into the house opposite.:D

Muckit

I don't know about not crossing the centreline crack. I've full coach licence and you have to cross line going round tight streets to make room when turning sharp corner.

In Galway city for example there are yellow box junctions at the bends the town hall side of he bridge crossing from cathedral. They are to allow buses and lorries to cross out onto other side to swing around bend. Anyone from the weestt will know the spot I'm talking about. If you didn't cross the line, you'd wrap your bus/lorry around the building.

Passing under arch of bridges is another. You have to straddle the line to get maximum overhead clearance and it is 100% legal to do so.

rangler1

Muckit wrote: »

I don't know about not crossing the centreline crack. I've full coach licence and you have to cross line going round tight streets to make room when turning sharp corner.

In Galway city for example there are yellow box junctions at the bends the town hall side of he bridge crossing from cathedral. They are to allow buses and lorries to cross out onto other side to swing around bend. Anyone from the weestt will know the spot I'm talking about. If you didn't cross the line, you'd wrap your bus/lorry around the building.

Passing under arch of bridges is another. You have to straddle the line to get maximum overhead clearance and it is 100% legal to do so.

legal or not, surely you have to wait till the road is clear before you cross the line

Muckit

rangler1 wrote: »

legal or not, surely you have to wait till the road is clear before you cross the line

Not necessarily. Whoever is nearest. The traffic approaching you have to have eyes in their heads too. A coach or lorry isnt exactly small and hard to see

9935452

lostgoat wrote: »

I'm not trying to wage a war here or anything, just trying to get informed and peoples opinions, and hopefully learn something that can help me in the future.

Would brake marks not account for a measure of the other vehicles speed?
If there had to have been an accident, would the guards have been able to see that the road conditions were okay and the load was fine?

With all respect, and I mean this, you are kind of implying that we jumped down off the tractor and shouted at her that she was in the wrong. I never left the tractor and my father wandered up after a while with his hands behind his back to see if all was okay. She did 85% of the talking. She actually said first that she was going too fast, that she was in a hurry. I never got the opportunity to "accuse" her.

The straight stretch of the road, is probably 20ft, but I have yet to see a bridge that is only wide enough for one car to appear in the middle of a road that wide. You have to see that the sides of the road taper into the bridge (which is one car wide) and the bridge is an actual bend in the road. There is no 'her side' of the road on a one car bridge..

So do you think I was wrong to stop the tractor? Should I have kept driving over the bridge?

I said that I am fairly sure you need an escort for a harvester - as it is over 3.5. (a modern combine harvester - if we are splitting hairs the smaller ones would be under 3.5, but a modern high output machine would be over 3.5, plus it could probably have the header in tow.

Yeah, they were 4' bales, so we were under.

Im not tring to have an argument here eithre but ill point out a few more things
This is the first you are mentioning of brake marks which i assume are skid marks. You can get a car to skid at 10mph, plus to be fair to her she was travelling down hill which could push her along a bit more. How long was the skid mark out of curiosity? im Thinking ABS here .

I never said that ye jumped off the tractor and shouted at her that she was driving too fast . What i i meant was it can be easy to influence a lady who could be in shock with 2 lady telling her that she was going to fast.
Im only getting details here that you left out in your first post, just like the skid marks.
I have to say though that i would find it hard to believe that the woman shouted abuse at you and then admitted straight after that it was her fault , and you never got down off the tractor even with her in tears.

Fair enough there is no 'her side of the road ' on the bridge but you were blocking the exit of the bridge on her side.
As one of the other posters said she was on the bridge first so she had right of way.
One thing that is confusing me a bit here is the description of the whole thing. it might help you understand why people are possibly point the finger at you. you are describing a humpback bridge on a bend in the road where you have to cross over to the other side of the road to make the bend.
If the bend is that bad , how can the car be going that fast considering its a humpback bridge.

So we are agreed about the whole escort thing? , less than 3.5m no escort required . Above 3.5m ,an escort is legally required.
I think part of the confusion here is you are referring to combine harvesters , im referring to forage harvesters, hence why i said my neighbour might just have a silage trailer as an escort. Combine harvesters are like hens teeth around here

alps

The only way to have found out what is correct in this situation is for both of you to have collided. ..then you would find out...The law is never straightforward nor would I suggest consistent...It can sometimes be up to the negotiating skills of the representitives and the "understanding" of the judge.

I'll give an example of a collision between an artic truck and a car.
The truck was coming southbound on a very narrow road between Castlecor (old Greenhall motors)(liscarroll) and cecilstown/mallow for those of you that know it. The road is twisty and on a bend to the right the tractor unit of the truck was as tight as feasible against the left fence, but the trailer was tracking out on the road not giving enough clearance for the car to pass. The oncoming car passed up the cab of the lorry and struck the first axle of the trailer.

The truck driver contended that he did what was possible as he had the truck against the fence on yhe left but the design of an artic truck meant that on a right hand curve the trailer would track further out on the road. This was not the fault of the truck driver and should be recognised by other road users. He contended that the car driver had time to see him and had not slowed down in time..He was stopped.

However the truck driver did not get a check to give evidence as the lady car driver gave evidence that the truck was taking over too much of the road and the judge asked where exactly did this take place. She described the stretch of road and the judge said."I know it well...got the fright of my life from a truck there myself"....

End of defence...

Waffletraktor

MF290 wrote: »

+1 some lorry drivers are the same, can be awful pussys about driving past you. Someone said that the public buses aren't allowed reverse?

Pet hate of mine is people giving out about 50k tractors going too fast, it's usually the cars that can't stop if they meet you on the road....

There is something in it all right about buses always stop to let you go buy and cant/wont reverse.
Its not all people giving out, we run 50k tractors and are now kitted out to do that with any implement you would. Sacked a student after a few hours on his first day carting for driving too fast, after first being told to slow down by the combine driver and then a phone call off a local farmer to say he will either kill someone or atleast roll a trailer..
Its a case of driving to the road/load and what you think some of the idiots might try next around you.

MIKEKC

If you were taking more than half the road I'd say 50--50

Muckit

alps wrote: »

I'll give an example of a collision between an artic truck and a car.

End of defence...

Sorry.... bit slow, who did the judge side with?

MF290

Waffletraktor wrote: »

There is something in it all right about buses always stop to let you go buy and cant/wont reverse.
Its not all people giving out, we run 50k tractors and are now kitted out to do that with any implement you would. Sacked a student after a few hours on his first day carting for driving too fast, after first being told to slow down by the combine driver and then a phone call off a local farmer to say he will either kill someone or atleast roll a trailer..
Its a case of driving to the road/load and what you think some of the idiots might try next around you.

Only place for him...

I can remember there was a new lad 'working' for our contractor driving like a maniac a few years ago. I still can't figure out how he was able to go so fast around and through a slatted shed with a 3k gallon tanker... mentioned it in passing to the cousin the next day, apparently it was his 2nd warning and he was gone.

Good loser

Surely the rule is/should be that you must be able to stop within the distance of clear road ahead of you. For head-on traffic.

So if the visibility is 20 ft or 60ft this will control the speed one is travelling.

In this case she couldn't stop until 4/5 ft beyond front of tractor; therefore she was wrong.

Insurance companies will argue one thing. Judges are unreliable.

alps

Muckit wrote: »

Sorry.... bit slow, who did the judge side with?

My point as good looser says...unreliable. .

You just don't know what may happen in court

Bass Reeves

Good loser wrote: »

Surely the rule is/should be that you must be able to stop within the distance of clear road ahead of you. For head-on traffic.

So if the visibility is 20 ft or 60ft this will control the speed one is travelling.

In this case she couldn't stop until 4/5 ft beyond front of tractor; therefore she was wrong.

Insurance companies will argue one thing. Judges are unreliable.

Ya we will all travel narrow roads ar 20km/hour. Truth is there is an onus on us when we drive tractors on narrow roads to take more care even if that means that we allow for the stupidity of other drivers. I myself have noticed that over the last year that drivers on side roads are more careless. This is down to people again being busy and in a hurry not condoning it but that is the reality.

The law cannot cater for every single one off incident. The old story holds true hard cases make bad law. This come from the thinking we cannot legislate for everything

Muckit

alps wrote: »

My point as good looser says...unreliable. .

You just don't know what may happen in court

That's what I'm trying to figure out! What did happen in court, what was the verdict?

Muckit

The other one apart from turning corners with trailers, are loaders.

I still can't figure out where the law stands on these. You see lads coming out gaps and side roads with loader jutting out onto road... all done totally blind.

I seen a lad drive up to white line coming out of side road. He had the loader up and a car zoomed past under the bale carrier! Grand but what if it was a curtainsider?

Reggie.

Muckit wrote: »

The other one apart from turning corners with trailers, are loaders.

I still can't figure out where the law stands on these. You see lads coming out gaps and side roads with loader jutting out onto road... all done totally blind.

I seen a lad drive up to white line coming out of side road. He had the loader up and a car zoomed past under the bale carrier! Grand but what if it was a curtainsider?

Happens to me alot during the summer but a certain amount of responsibility has to go to other drivers as I've never had a driver stop to let me out a gap. Some drivers have very little knowledge about large vehicles outside thier own car such as braking capabilities and manoverabilty/handling characteristics of agri machines or trucks in general

Bass Reeves

alps wrote: »

However the truck driver did not get a check to give evidence as the lady car driver gave evidence that the truck was taking over too much of the road and the judge asked where exactly did this take place. She described the stretch of road and the judge said."I know it well...got the fright of my life from a truck there myself"....

End of defence...

Muckit wrote: »

That's what I'm trying to figure out! What did happen in court, what was the verdict?

It obivious there was no point in trying to make a defence of the case as the judge had already made his mind up

Muckit wrote: »

The other one apart from turning corners with trailers, are loaders.

I still can't figure out where the law stands on these. You see lads coming out gaps and side roads with loader jutting out onto road... all done totally blind.

I seen a lad drive up to white line coming out of side road. He had the loader up and a car zoomed past under the bale carrier! Grand but what if it was a curtainsider?

You would be in the wrong as if coming out on to a road blind ( and I crawl out a gate with a tractor myself) the onus is on the person trying to come out of they cannot see to have someone directing them out onto the road.

MF290

Where does the heavier vehicle having the right of way come into all of this or is that made up?

kowtow

MF290 wrote:

Where does the heavier vehicle having the right of way come into all of this or is that made up?

Doesn't exist on the road does it? My son was suggesting similar the other day, and I told him that he was thinking of a "vessel constrained by draught" for which he would need 1. To be a ship 2. At sea and 3. To be showing the proper lights.

Muckit

Reggie. wrote: »

.... I've never had a driver stop to let me out a gap. Some drivers have very little knowledge about large vehicles outside thier own car such as braking capabilities and manoverabilty/handling characteristics of agri machines or trucks in general

Right of way. Any driver on the road, regardless of the vehicle they are driving has the right of way. When you are coming out a gap or a side road whether you are on a tractor, motorbike or whatever, you don't. You have to stop. There is no onus on them to stop or let anyone out onto the road. That's not just my opinion, it's the law.

Once they have passed their test for the vehicle they are driving, there is no onus on other drivers to know the workings of your vehicle. That's your responsibility.

Reggie.

Muckit wrote: »

Right of way. Any driver on the road, regardless of the vehicle they are driving has the right of way. When you are coming out a gap or a side road whether you are on a tractor, motorbike or whatever, you don't. You have to stop. There is no onus on them to stop or let anyone out onto the road. That's not just my opinion, it's the law.

Once they have passed their test for the vehicle they are driving, there is no onus on other drivers to know the workings of your vehicle. That's your responsibility.

I understand that but I'm on about common sense more than the letter of the law. I'm sure many here know what it's like to try to manage machinery in tight gaps and would stop to let them out onto the road or something similar. Always give a fella a chance or opening on the back roads

MF290

kowtow wrote: »

Doesn't exist on the road does it? My son was suggesting similar the other day, and I told him that he was thinking of a "vessel constrained by draught" for which he would need 1. To be a ship 2. At sea and 3. To be showing the proper lights.

Doesn't seem to. Maybe it's just courtesy or more than likely common sense to pull in for a vehicle that could run you over

punisher5112

Large vehicles are covered in rules of the road under heading large and emergency vehicles.