EV s and the electricity grid

Bigus

Interesting piece about EVs and the future grid

And for MAD Lad see 9.50 in the video re Nissan future batteries !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le1BKN1vAOs

BoatMad

" the network " , " it was designed for transportation ".....

my goodness, all this trains and tube trains , rushing around on thin air.....


utter nonsense , all you are seeing is the network gearing up to differentiate EV charging from domestic usage , so they can charge you more for it


self serving nonsense from the networks

Bigus

BoatMad wrote: »

" the network " , " it was designed for transportation ".....

my goodness, all this trains and tube trains , rushing around on thin air.....


utter nonsense , all you are seeing is the network gearing up to differentiate EV charging from domestic usage , so they can charge you more for it


self serving nonsense from the networks

Irrelevant when you have your own PV array or windmill, and your old leaf battery as storage

BoatMad

Bigus wrote: »

Irrelevant when you have your own PV array or windmill, and your old leaf battery as storage

I corrected the Video quote..

indeed mad_lad, the great thing about electricity that the ICE luddites miss is that electricity can be generated in significant quantities by amateurs not subject to the states interference. technology is only increasing that ability

Bigus

Bigus wrote: »

Interesting piece about EVs and the future grid

And for MAD Lad see 9.50 in the video re Nissan future batteries !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le1BKN1vAOs

I can't see too much of that in work at the minute but at 9.50, yeah we know there is a 60 kwh battery, this has been confirmed.

BoatMad

yeah we know there is a 60 kwh battery, this has been confirmed.

where has it been confirmed by an official source ! the only battery we know for sure is the Gen 2 leaf with a 48 whi battery

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104610_next-nissan-leaf-confirmed-for-60-kwh-battery-200-miles-of-range

Nissan global electric-car and hybrid development boss Kazuo Yajima confirmed the larger pack yesterday at the Electric Vehicle Symposium & Exhibition 29—known as EVS29—in Montreal, Canada.

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

" the network " , " it was designed for transportation ".....

my goodness, all this trains and tube trains , rushing around on thin air.....

It all goes down to two things: peak consumption and predictability. So if you know how the usage pattern looks like and how much you will need - you can plan for it and upgrade the infrastructure. But upgrades cost, while currently the grid is under-utilised for most of the time...

Smart charging is about making sure that the charging pattern fits into current usage habits and compliment renewable (and typically unpredictable) sources; that way the existing infrastructure could be utilised much more efficiently.

That's a chart:





If the electric cars could consume the solar electricity generated around noon plus charge during the low demand period, between 1am and 8am, you'd get an almost flat demand...

utter nonsense , all you are seeing is the network gearing up to differentiate EV charging from domestic usage , so they can charge you more for it

That is a danger, of course. Governments are pushing on it as well - so they can tax that electricity differently.

But they do it right now, by getting a law in that would have the EV metered separately... I am pretty sure a dozen of safety reasons were already invented... Another option is to differentiate the price of kWh based on the rate it is being drawn - but that again would require a different set of meters.

self serving nonsense from the networks

Probably true. Unfortunately there is no competition on the network. You cannot decide to switch your electricity network if your current one is mismanaging...

To accomodate EV, the network provider can over-provision and in the end charge the customers for that investment - or try to balance the usage, reduce the investment and (theoretically) not increase the prices.

cros13

grogi wrote: »

You cannot decide to switch your electricity network if your current one is mismanaging...

But you can go off-grid, and in the medium to long term that's going to become viable for a lot of people, in particular heavy consumers.

And then they're going to run into similar issues to the fixed line phone network in some countries... the network will still cost the same to maintain but the cost is going to fall on a smaller and smaller pool of customers who don't have the ability to go off grid because they are urban or lack the capital.

It's not just theory, it's already started to happen in Australia.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

But you can go off-grid, and in the medium to long term that's going to become viable for a lot of people, in particular heavy consumers.

And then they're going to run into similar issues to the fixed line phone network in some countries... the network will still cost the same to maintain but the cost is going to fall on a smaller and smaller pool of customers who don't have the ability to go off grid because they are urban or lack the capital.

It's not just theory, it's already started to happen in Australia.

I know.

That's why I believe the electricity network should not be private, but state owned. The same way the phone lines should not get privatised, water pipes etc.

bk

cros13 wrote: »

And then they're going to run into similar issues to the fixed line phone network in some countries... the network will still cost the same to maintain but the cost is going to fall on a smaller and smaller pool of customers who don't have the ability to go off grid because they are urban or lack the capital.

Actually Ireland was one of the prime examples of this. We have some of the highest line rental charges in Europe, due to our large rural population, but the high prices lead to lots of people to disconnect their phone line once they got a mobile phone. I one stage it dropped as low as just 60%, the lowest percentage of people with an active phone line in Europe.

Of course this lead to even higher prices as Eir were required to continue all lines, even non active ones (part of their Universal Service Obligation), while getting less money, so they upped prices which simply lead to even more people leaving.

They have now stabilised these loses by rolling out good quality broadband using VDSL, which requires a phone line and bundling the cost of the line in with the broadband. But it was definitely touch and go for them for a while.

Now Eir have seen the light and are eagerly rolling out FTTH.

I could absolutely see the same happening in the long term with the electricity network if the ESB and government aren't careful.

grogi wrote: »

That's why I believe the electricity network should not be private, but state owned. The same way the phone lines should not get privatised, water pipes etc.

In fairness, that is exactly what we have with the electricity, gas and water networks. All owned by government owned semi-state companies.

The government got badly burned by the privatisation of Eircom and in fairness they didn't want to repeat that mistake with the other networks and for the most part they haven't.

With both gas and electricity. They have rightfully privatised the consumer facing side and the production side, but are keeping the networks semi-state.

Yes, they should have down the same with Eircom, privatised the costumer facing side, but kept the network semi-state, unfortunately that bridge has been long crossed.

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

I know.

That's why I believe the electricity network should not be private, but state owned. The same way the phone lines should not get privatised, water pipes etc.

it is state owned

n97 mini

BoatMad wrote: »

it is state owned

And also directly run by the same organisation. Ideally the state would own it but tender out the rest. I leave it at that otherwise I'll go completely OT on how the unions and politicians are clinging onto things for their own self interest.

BoatMad

n97 mini wrote: »

And also directly run by the same organisation. Ideally the state would own it but tender out the rest. I leave it at that otherwise I'll go completely OT on how the unions and politicians are clinging onto things for their own self interest.

err, the state owns the grid , and the DUoS charges ( basically electricity owners) are paid to ESB Distribution to manage the grid on the states behalf. You could argue that that part should be tendered , out and in time it might, but I dont see too many organisation rushing in to manage grids ( which are inherently non commercial)