Landlords solely using AirBnB for lettings now require planning permission

andekwarhola

Odin Thousands Flapjack wrote: »

Its hardly shocking, people invest in property to make money and in popular areas where you will have a high occupancy rate on airbnb there is much more money to be made than in a traditional letting while also keeping total control of the property

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I agree to a certain extent. We rent out a property ourselves (not Airbnb) but private landlords provide an essential public service and if something starts to radically distort an already poor market, the government or local authorities are going to act.

And that's before you consider the valid concerns of owners and long term residents, on say, a managed development, when property is exclusively STL.

jamesthepeach

Ah lads.
I asked you to show me where people have been punished for short term letting.
I'm pretty sure you can quote all sorts of laws etc, even ones that tell me I'll be burned at the stake for blasphemy or some such.
Show me proof of someone being punished for it. And never mind one, for it to be a viable deterrent you would want to be seeing thousands being punished.

I wouldn't mind you proving that a mc can fine someone €200 for doing airbnb either.

How about it.

Murrisk

You're a broken record! People are just mostly speculating here.

jamesthepeach

Yourself isit wrote: »

We are all internet randomers here. Surely it's up to you to prove that management companies or local councils can't take action. Clearly they can and have.

I'm saying that people don't get done for letting via Airbnb.
It's up to those who insist that that they do, to prove that they do. Especially the talk of a mc fining people €200 for it.

Murrisk

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I'm saying that people don't get done for letting via Airbnb.
It's up to those who insist that that they do, to prove that they do. Especially the talk of a mc fining people €200 for it.

If you don't believe them, what does it matter? Do what you want.

jamesthepeach

Murrisk wrote: »

You're a broken record! People are just mostly speculating here.

Well at last we get there.
Thats my point exactly.
There is no punishment beong given for doing short term letting. And if there is, it's as rare as hen's teeth.

Murrisk

jamesthepeach wrote: »

There is no punishment beong given for doing short term letting. And if there is, it's as rare as hen's teeth.

Yet.

Murrisk

murphaph wrote: »

Is the point of an airbnb ban to prevent nuisance to residents or prevent units leaving the residential lettings market?

I suspect the former more than the latter. Public order and all.

dubdev

Murrisk wrote: »

I suspect the former more than the latter. Public order and all.

Yep absolutely. Property owners who choose to use AirBnB to let out entire apartments in residential apartment blocks are sticking two fingers up at everyone else and putting their own greed before the rights of the other owners.
Bought an apartment that you can't rent cost effectively ? Cry me a river, not my or anyone else's problem . That doesn't give someone licence to just ignore planning legislation and be a complete ass.

They are turning once-upmarket developments into ramshackle hotels with a revolving door of strangers coming and going , which has security, property value, fire safety and insurance implications.

It's just another symptom of the dysfunctional relationship we have with property in this country and the lack of a sense of civic responsibility among some landlords, as well as the rent seeking behaviour that the property market encourages .

jamesthepeach

dubdev wrote: »

Yep absolutely. Property owners who choose to use AirBnB to let out entire apartments in residential apartment blocks are sticking two fingers up at everyone else and putting their own greed before the rights of the other owners.
Bought an apartment that you can't rent cost effectively ? Cry me a river, not my or anyone else's problem . That doesn't give someone licence to just ignore planning legislation and be a complete ass.

They are turning once-upmarket developments into ramshackle hotels with a revolving door of strangers coming and going , which has security, property value, fire safety and insurance implications.

It's just another symptom of the dysfunctional relationship we have with property in this country and the lack of a sense of civic responsibility among some landlords, as well as the rent seeking behaviour that the property market encourages .

But they can rent their properties cost effectively.
Its just under the current rental legislation they get screwed by the government on the amount that they can actually rent for. Then they get screwed again by the current legislation when a tenant decides to stay and not pay, or wreck the place. And then screwed again when the tenant moves out and they want to ask for a fair market rent. And screwed again, should you decide you dont want to rent to someone who doesnt have the money to pay the rent.

So its easier, safer, more cost effective and more profitable to go the short term route. Thats why they do it. So then you have people like yourself trying to stick their oar in telling people what to do with their investments, all because you imagine a little bit of noise is the result of renting through one company, and that all owners should not be allowed to make a profit from their investments. You cry me a river. you would think that rentals under the current system were devoid of any social problems the way you go on.

Graham

jamesthepeach wrote: »

But they can rent their properties cost effectively.
Its just under the current rental legislation they get screwed by the government on the amount that they can actually rent for. Then they get screwed again by the current legislation when a tenant decides to stay and not pay, or wreck the place. And then screwed again when the tenant moves out and they want to ask for a fair market rent. And screwed again, should you decide you dont want to rent to someone who doesnt have the money to pay the rent.

So its easier, safer, more cost effective and more profitable to go the short term route. Thats why they do it. So then you have people like yourself trying to stick their oar in telling people what to do with their investments, all because you imagine a little bit of noise is the result of renting through one company, and that all owners should not be allowed to make a profit from their investments. You cry me a river. you would think that rentals under the current system were devoid of any social problems the way you go on.

None of that gives any kind of exemption to the planning laws.

Trying to rationalise that somehow by claiming the legitimate way is hard/expensive/not as profitable is unlikely to garner sympathy from the general public.

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

None of that gives any kind of exemption to the planning laws.

Trying to rationalise that somehow by claiming the legitimate way is hard/expensive/not as profitable is unlikely to garner sympathy from the general public.

Nobody needs sympathy.
All they need to do is rent their properties in a way where they have control over their own assets and make a profit.

You can do both via short term lets. There really is nothing that is going to happen to you when you do short term lets, despite all the soothsaying.

Actually there are other ways too, as i have recently found out.

But conventional letting is not the way to go anymore if you plan to make a profit and keep control. You are simply not allowed to make a profit or make improvements that SHOULD lead to increased profit under the current regime.

Graham

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Nobody needs sympathy.
All they need to do is rent their properties in a way where they have control over their own assets and make a profit.

You can do both via short term lets. There really is nothing that is going to happen to you when you do short term lets, despite all the soothsaying.

Actually there are other ways too, as i have recently found out.

But conventional letting is not the way to go anymore if you plan to make a profit and keep control. You are simply not allowed to make a profit or make improvements that SHOULD lead to increased profit under the current regime.

What are you looking for then?

You've filled several pages telling us how there are no consequences so planning laws be damned.

You refuse to accept there's anything OMCs can do stop it.

You completely ignore the increasing number of cases where local authorities are seeking enforcement.

What is the point you're trying to make, or is that it?

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

What are you looking for then?

You've filled several pages telling us how there are no consequences so planning laws be damned.

You refuse to accept there's anything OMCs can do stop it.

You completely ignore the increasing number of cases where local authorities are seeking enforcement.

What is the point you're trying to make, or is that it?

You forget. I dont need to prove anything. You do.
Dont keep telling me what MIGHT happen to me at some random date in the future. Actually show me a fine or a jail sentence for anyone of the thousands doing airbnb in Ireland. You'll have as much luck showing a fine or a jail sentence for breaking the blasphemy laws.

Ive a property let via airbnb (sorta) in a complex that I am on the MC of.
I told the rest of the MC i was going to do this. Some of them objected and had concerns. So I said fair is fair, hit me with any sanctions you think are legal and that can be applied to anyone else doing short term lets and i will be happy to take them. I told them i am happy for them to use me as a test case if they want. They declined.
I know from experience there are none that they can take, that a solicitor wont destroy in seconds.

In the meantime I will let my property in the way i see fit and if any anti social issues etc come up, we will deal with them then and they should not assume prematurely that me letting short term will be any problem to them.

They agreed to this. They had no choice really. But it was nice to get it out on the table.

super_furry

Getting the tax man to investigate and have a talk to people putting properties up on Air BnB would stop a lot of them in their tracks I'd imagine.

jamesthepeach

super_furry wrote: »

Getting the tax man to investigate and have a talk to people putting properties up on Air BnB would stop a lot of them in their tracks I'd imagine.

Why would that stop them?

Graham

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Ive a property let via airbnb (sorta) in a complex that I am on the MC of.
I told the rest of the MC i was going to do this. Some of them objected and had concerns. So I said fair is fair, hit me with any sanctions you think are legal and that can be applied to anyone else doing short term lets and i will be happy to take them. I told them i am happy for them to use me as a test case if they want. They declined.
I know from experience there are none that they can take, that a solicitor wont destroy in seconds.

In the meantime I will let my property in the way i see fit and if any anti social issues etc come up, we will deal with them then and they should not assume prematurely that me letting short term will be any problem to them.

They agreed to this. They had no choice really. But it was nice to get it out on the table.

Wow, I'm impressed in an eyebrow-raising kind of way.

There's not many landlords would have the bottle to stand up in front of their neighbours and essentially tell them they're going to ignore their opinions, rights and planning legislation because they're of the opinion there are no consequences.

mille100piedi

I didn't know I have to inform the property management regarding guests that are staying at my place. I host short term and long term guests, I am most of the time at home but for a few months in the winter I am abroad and my guests are left alone in my property.
I don't think my neighbour are bothered about this, some of them know I am renting a room in my place, my house has its own front door so there is no common areas. Most of my guests are university students, professionals and couples on holiday.

mille100piedi

super_furry wrote: »

Getting the tax man to investigate and have a talk to people putting properties up on Air BnB would stop a lot of them in their tracks I'd imagine.

Airbnb is sending all the hosts details to revenue so I don't understand how hosts would avoid paying taxes. I guess if they don't want to pay taxes they have to advertise their house using another platform

gizmo81

There is lots of reports coming out about Air bNb facilitating sex work.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/prostitutes-pimps-ditched-hotels-airbnb-7335054

"A huge number of the properties are available as short-term holiday lets for a week at a time, so they’ve been targeted by the sex trade. "

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2017/jun/13/an-embarrassment-to-the-city-what-went-wrong-with-the-725m-gateway-to-cambridge

Our building had an Air BnB Brothel.

Had a huge impact on regular tenants because of anti-social behaviour, management company would do nothing.

Once people started being threatened for complaining a good few of us moved out.

dubdev

dubdev wrote: »

Yep absolutely. Property owners who choose to use AirBnB to let out entire apartments in residential apartment blocks are sticking two fingers up at everyone else and putting their own greed before the rights of the other owners.
Bought an apartment that you can't rent cost effectively ? Cry me a river, not my or anyone else's problem . That doesn't give someone licence to just ignore planning legislation and be a complete ass.

They are turning once-upmarket developments into ramshackle hotels with a revolving door of strangers coming and going , which has security, property value, fire safety and insurance implications.

It's just another symptom of the dysfunctional relationship we have with property in this country and the lack of a sense of civic responsibility among some landlords, as well as the rent seeking behaviour that the property market encourages .

Greed, civic responsibly :rolleyes:? Would you ever grow up. People invest in property to make money it's not greed to maximise profits it's called running your business correctly. As for civic responsibility, LLs are not charities or public bodies the only civic responsibly a LL should have is to his pocket.

Graham

Odin Thousands Flapjack wrote: »

People invest in property to make money it's not greed to maximise profits it's called running your business correctly.

Most businesses even manage to do this in accordance with the conditions of their lease, planning legislation and with no negative effects on their neighbouring properties.

Murrisk

Odin Thousands Flapjack wrote: »

Greed, civic responsibly :rolleyes:? Would you ever grow up. People invest in property to make money it's not greed to maximise profits it's called running your business correctly.

Surely running a business correctly includes following the relevant rules and regulations?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Most businesses even manage to do this in accordance with the conditions of their lease, planning legislation and with no negative effects on their neighbouring properties.

Most business break rules, especially ones they can easily get away with. Very naive to think otherwise.

mrslancaster

thought the local authority have to write to property owners to tell them they are in breach of some regulation & allow time to rectify the breach before they issue any proceedings?

reading here it looks like the change of use planning only applies to year-round use for airbnb
http://www.philiplee.ie/short-term-lettings-airbnb-and-planning/


so if the LL is only using airbnb for occasional use looks like that's ok even if he is not living there

pilly

Graham wrote:

There's not many landlords would have the bottle to stand up in front of their neighbours and essentially tell them they're going to ignore their opinions, rights and planning legislation because they're of the opinion there are no consequences.

That's because it's a bull**** story.

Fkall

Graham wrote: »

Sounds like your management company need to get better legal advice.

Landlords just need to turn up at the AGM and vote down motions to ban Airbnb.

jimmycrackcorm

gizmo81 wrote:

There is lots of reports coming out about Air bNb facilitating sex work.

They're as facilitating as car manufacturers are about providing cars that can go faster than the maximum speed limit.

Graham

Fkall wrote: »

Landlords just need to turn up at the AGM and vote down motions to ban Airbnb.

The decision to uphold head leases is rarely put to a vote, it's usually an obligation of the OMC.

Even if it were put to a vote, landlords are generally conspicuous by their absence at most AGMs.

Assuming the board of the OMC/committee do call for a vote you're then assuming there are more landlords present than owner-occupiers in order to be attempt to force through or down-vote any proposals.

Were you to get to that point, it's unlikely you would be able to change the terms of the head-lease which would generally prohibit short term lettings.

If you manage to run that particular set of gauntlets, it doesn't change the position on planning requirements and certainly wouldn't prevent any LA enforcement actions.

Graham

Odin Thousands Flapjack wrote: »

Most business break rules, especially ones they can easily get away with. Very naive to think otherwise.

In my experience most don't, at least not deliberately.

YMMV depending on the businesses you frequent.