Landlords solely using AirBnB for lettings now require planning permission

jamesthepeach

mille100piedi wrote: »

I didn't know I have to inform the property management regarding guests that are staying at my place. I host short term and long term guests, I am most of the time at home but for a few months in the winter I am abroad and my guests are left alone in my property.
I don't think my neighbour are bothered about this, some of them know I am renting a room in my place, my house has its own front door so there is no common areas. Most of my guests are university students, professionals and couples on holiday.

You don't have to inform anybody. It's bull****, just like the rest of the soothsaying on this thread. Too many MCs rely on pretending they have power that they don't have. A tip for anyone who gets grief off a mc is that you run it by a solicitor before you start shaking in your boots.

jamesthepeach

Graham wrote: »

Wow, I'm impressed in an eyebrow-raising kind of way.

There's not many landlords would have the bottle to stand up in front of their neighbours and essentially tell them they're going to ignore their opinions, rights and planning legislation because they're of the opinion there are no consequences.

Well I'm an owner too, as are anyone else who wants to let their property, just like all who live in theirs. But some people seem to think that they can control everyone else and when you point out to them that they can't they get upset.
Anyway nothing new happening in this thread.
I think I've established the position regarding any deterrent against those doing short term lets.
So I'll leave you all alone to bark away, while having no bite whatsoever.

Graham

mrslancaster wrote: »

thought the local authority have to write to property owners to tell them they are in breach of some regulation & allow time to rectify the breach before they issue any proceedings?

reading here it looks like the change of use planning only applies to year-round use for airbnb
http://www.philiplee.ie/short-term-lettings-airbnb-and-planning/

Thank MrsLancaster, I almost missed your post and there's some really interesting information in that article.

The part I found most interesting is how DCC got involved in the Temple Bar case that went to An Bord Pleanála last year:

The Residents used section 5 of the Planning and Development Act to refer a question to Dublin City Council as to whether such use constitutes ‘development’, and whether such development is exempted development. Dublin City Council determined that the use was a material change of use

That raises a question;

If an owner occupier or an OMC refers a question to the local authority under section 5 of the planning and development as to whether a neighbouring short-term-let property constitutes material change of use.

Is the local authority then obligated to act if such use is found to be unauthorised development?

Murrisk

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well I'm an owner too, as are anyone else who wants to let their property, just like all who live in theirs. But some people seem to think that they can control everyone else and when you point out to them that they can't they get upset.

In my apartment complex, there is a set of house rules. These ensure peaceful living for everyone in the complex. House rules in complexes are nothing new and they're not there to control everyone, they are there for the greater good of the complex. The main objections to AirBnB fall under this. Having a complex become a hotel would, in many cases, effect the lives of the long-term residents. It's very easy for a distant landlord to say that it won't cause any hassle but they are not the ones whose lives will be disrupted. I don't know my neighbours personally but I like to see the same faces all the time. I would hate to not know who is in one of the apartments beside me on any given night.

Duncanwooly

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Well I'm an owner too, as are anyone else who wants to let their property, just like all who live in theirs. But some people seem to think that they can control everyone else

No one is saying you cannot let your property. In most cases you should be able to do so as you pleases. However, there area couple of points you should consider.

Your home will have whatever planning permission it has. Using it for other purposes may invalidate your insurance, and leave you liable should any of your Airbnb guests do something that causes damage to their property.

If you're using your home as a business; the corporation may impose certain restrictions on how it operates. This isn't to stifle your potential income but to protect your neighbours and other users of communal space. You want to be able to enjoy your home however you want, why should you neighbours be unable to do so because you have short term lets in there.

Lumen

Graham wrote: »

Wow, I'm impressed in an eyebrow-raising kind of way.

There's not many landlords would have the bottle to stand up in front of their neighbours and essentially tell them they're going to ignore their opinions, rights and planning legislation because they're of the opinion there are no consequences.

Airbnb is reputation-based, right? Fast-forward a few months when the property is unlettable on Airbnb due to low-level anonymous harassment by everyone in the building (4am doorbell rings, food deliveries, escort services....).

It's not about bottle, it's a complete lack of imagination about the consequences of pissing off your neighbours, and the reality of inaction and stonewalling by the authorities who you complain to after telling them they have no sanctions against you.

murphaph

Lumen wrote: »

Airbnb is reputation-based, right? Fast-forward a few months when the property is unlettable on Airbnb due to low-level anonymous harassment by everyone in the building (4am doorbell rings, food deliveries, escort services....).

It's not about bottle, it's a complete lack of imagination about the consequences of pissing off your neighbours, and the reality of inaction and stonewalling by the authorities who you complain to after telling them they have no sanctions against you.

I don't agree with STL in an apartment context of it's impinging on the residents but it's just as unfair to go ringing the doorbell at 4am or even worse send some poor unfortunate pizza guy there on a fool's errand. The fast food thing is really uncalled for, dragging a third party into it like that.

Lumen

murphaph wrote: »

I don't agree with STL in an apartment context of it's impinging on the residents but it's just as unfair to go ringing the doorbell at 4am or even worse send some poor unfortunate pizza guy there on a fool's errand. The fast food thing is really uncalled for, dragging a third party into it like that.

I'm not advocating it, I'm saying this is the sort of thing that can happen when you adopt a "blow me" type attitude.

wordofwarning

Murrisk wrote: »

I would hate to not know who is in one of the apartments beside me on any given night.

So you know the person next store to you is not an addict, a registered sex offender or does not have a list of previous convictions the size of a phone book? The answer is no. But you are content with the the fact you see their face the odd time and therefore you know them? I'm sorry but I am failing to understand the logic in that.

I honestly don't think most people in this thread are in anyway familiar what Airbnb is and who the typical guests are. You get the impression, that most people see Airbnb guests as being nothing but party crazy people on stag parties etc. Which is absolutely not the case.

The fact is Dublin apartments don't generally have door man or proper security measures. Whenever I go to visit friends in their apartments, I generally get up to their door quicker than when they go down for me as you can just slip in behind someone else going into the apartment block.

There is no point trying to blame Airbnb for suddenly allowing stranger into Apartment blocks, when I guarantee you within 5 mins at standing at most apartment block doors in Dublin you will get the opportunity to slip in behind someone going into the apartment block.

dubdev

I read the following quote in an article on nextcity.org which quite neatly sums up why people have objections to short-term letting in a residential area.

"People choose to live in a city, a neighborhood, a building and a unit for a complex set of reasons and variables — all of which connect a group of people at a given time to a given physical place in ways that might not be so obvious, but exist nonetheless. These people add unique experiences, services and ideas to their communities for however long they remain there. Over time, a neighborhood forms an identity from those collaborations and conflicts that makes it both unique and universal. By sharing a place, purposefully or incidentally, people have shaped it.

Airbnb disrupts this, and not in the way it disrupts the hotel industry. The person with that lease, whether it’s the landlord or a professional lister, is still sharing that space with all of those people in their building and their neighborhood. There is a profound responsibility that comes with that whether they acknowledge it or not. The host has chosen to disengage from their home by turning it into a commodity. Whether or not they have the right to is almost beside the point.

The more salient point is that they are also forcing their neighbors to make that choice by turning the neighborhood into a commodity as well. The host has forced their neighbors — who see strangers coming and going constantly — to become just a little bit less engaged and connected to their home. It’s not just that they aren’t benefiting financially, it’s that they are incurring the majority of the social costs and losing what they thought their home was when they moved in. Maybe the Airbnb renter is okay with being in a cheaper “hotel,” but their neighbors didn’t sign a lease to live in any kind of hotel."

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/airbnb-gets-housing-wrong

Murrisk

wordofwarning wrote: »

So you know the person next store to you is not an addict, a registered sex offender or does not have a list of previous convictions the size of a phone book?

Oh, FGS. The chances of ending up next store to someone like that is vanishingly small but if they have proven themselves to be quiet, reliable neighbours, there's no issue. The key is that, over time, they have proven themselves to be so. If I had issues with a neighbour, I'd be trying to sort it. If I issues with a short term let, they'll be gone by the time my complaint is seen to. That's the difference.

The rest of your post is a poor defence. "Apartment buildings can never be 100% secure so let's make them even more insecure than they are now?" Really? Is that the best you can do?

As for noise, pretty much everyone is slightly more noisy when they are holiday. You stay up a bit later on average, are more likely to be playing music late etc. The daily beat of a tourist is much different to that of a worker. That's why it's best to stay in a building built for that or at least where the other people staying there are prepared for the fact that it's a building filled with tourists.

Claw Hammer

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not advocating it, I'm saying this is the sort of thing that can happen when you adopt a "blow me" type attitude.

The old dog **** on the door handles welcome?