Gis a house

JustTheOne

Chuchote wrote: »

Denmark counts people without accommodation of their own as homeless, while Ireland counts only rough sleepers, I think?

No Ireland counts people in emergency accomodation as homeless.

Chuchote

JustTheOne wrote: »

No Ireland counts people in emergency accomodation as homeless.

Really? Was looking at a Journal article and they were giving the number of rough sleepers.

What is the number in Ireland, if you count emergency accommodation, sleeping rough, lost the house and sleeping in mammy's boxroom with the four kids, and so on?

Specialun

Something tells me that were not getting the whole story on this

JustTheOne

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? Was looking at a Journal article and they were giving the number of rough sleepers.

What is the number in Ireland, if you count emergency accommodation, sleeping rough, lost the house and sleeping in mammy's boxroom with the four kids, and so on?

Yeah rough sleepers and people in emergency accomodation are regarded as homeless. Think it's around 2,000.

seamus

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Seriously, who cares? Who cares if they're junkies? They're killing themselves. If they went out and murdered someone or interfered with a child - (imo the lowest of the low, much worse than a junkie) they'd be guaranteed meals three times a day, medical services, courses and education, and a bed.

A basic roof over your head at night time shouldn't be a luxury for the working class. Anybody with a pulse should have somewhere to sleep, something to wear, and something to eat, and be able to access medical services if needed - without bias.

Hey I agree, but what's the solution? You can't stick drunk and strung out people into general homeless services, there'd be murder.

I previously posited a solution of private-ish hostel services where you have a pre-fab/printed room with an ensuite toilet and shower. Virtually indestructible. Person goes in during the evening, the next morning the staff get them out, remove all fabrics and hose/bleach the whole place down before preparing it for the next night.

But ultimately all you're doing there is moving the same problem off the streets into private. Staff will come in to dead people every other morning and it'll be just another dead junkie.

How do you solve that problem?

Someone going without a roof over their head and a meal in their belly is a symptom, not the whole problem in itself.

Chuchote

From last June in The Irish Times:

The number of homeless children and families continues to increase with the latest figures for last month showing there were 2,177 homeless children in 1,054 families homeless across the State last month.

JustTheOne

Chuchote wrote: »

From last June in The Irish Times:

I see. So how many people is it?

Still probably less than 1/3 of Denmarks homeless numbers.

Chuchote

They seem to have a plan, though. What's our plan?

JustTheOne

Chuchote wrote: »

They seem to have a plan, though. What's our plan?

30,000 social houses by 2020.

Chuchote

That would be great - just four years away. But I'd have a little more confidence if they were being built by Dublin Corporation, as it was when it built with the very best materials and the very highest standards, with stringent inspection, rather than being built by our developer class, who don't have such a starry reputation.

Barry Badrinath

JustTheOne wrote: »

You do know there is homeless people in every country in the world?

Do you expect Ireland to have the solution?

Noooooooo, theres homeless people in other countries too? Yer pullin' me leg! Thats like sooooo weird. Youre havin' me on.

Ya big liar ye!

shafty100

JustTheOne wrote: »

shafty100 wrote: »

I don't think we should discriminate when talking about helping homeless people.

One group isn't more deserving to be on the streets than another.[/QU i didnt suggest discriminating i said priortise irish people first , you try going to other nations and see how much hospatility you recieve .

corner of hells

the_syco wrote: »

I wonder why she was turned away "from homelessness services in the city on several occasions"? They don't tend to do this unless you're not cooperating with them.

It's possible they may be looking to access services as a couple, there's not many couples beds in homeless sevices

JustTheOne

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Noooooooo, theres homeless people in other countries too? Yer pullin' me leg! Thats like sooooo weird. Youre havin' me on.

Ya big liar ye!

Yep. But the way some people go on you would think Ireland is the only country.

Fr_Dougal

Chuchote wrote: »

From last June in The Irish Times:

If they have accommodation they're not homeless.

Bit like that other media whore who claimed she was homeless, yet turned down two apartments.

Barry Badrinath

JustTheOne wrote: »

Yep. But the way some people go on you would think Ireland is the only country.

I cant agree with that.

It's an Irish forum with a majority of an Irish userbase talking about a specific topic that relates to Ireland.

The thread is not about the international homeless crisis.

Its about a homeless couple living in a tent in Dublin

JustTheOne

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I cant agree with that.

It's an Irish forum with a majority of an Irish userbase talking about a specific topic that relates to Ireland.

The thread is not about the international homeless crisis.

Its about a homeless couple living in a tent in Dublin

But if no country in the world can stop homeless why do we expect Ireland to be able to?

Chuchote

JustTheOne wrote: »

But if no country in the world can stop homeless why do we expect Ireland to be able to?

Ireland had the worst slums in Europe on the foundation of the State. At a time including the hungry 1930s and the devastating Economic War, we rehoused the hordes of people of Dublin's tenements, building good, safe, high-standard housing that still stands and is still lived in all over Dublin.

If the Irish could do it then, at a time of far worse poverty, far fewer chances in life, in a country riddled by tuberculosis, where an education to the age of 13 was an achievement, surely we can do the smaller task we face now.

Barry Badrinath

JustTheOne wrote: »

But if no country in the world can stop homeless why do we expect Ireland to be able to?

Im sorry but that is one of the most pointless arguments I have ever seen someone post in After Hours.

Ever.

corner of hells

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Im sorry but that is one of the most pointless arguments I have ever seen someone post in After Hours.

Ever.

Mr Pants , I do like your posting style.

Jesus.

evolvedmarmite wrote: »

The problem with your stance OP is that you are assuming that everyone in society starts on the same level with the same opportunities. You seem embarrassingly unaware of any of life's circumstances that might lead to adults being homeless. Your black and white thinking does you no favours, and being angry at people who are genuinely struggling must be exhausting. It's really great that you are in the enviable position of having a roof over your head, a job and a mortgage. Well done you! Perhaps you had supportive parents who were interested in your education and helped you become independent. You are in a more secure place in life than millions of others on the planet. Have you no concept of how difficult it must be to get back to any kind of normal life once you have hit rock bottom?! I can't for the life of me imagine ever feeling anything but empathy and sadness for people living on the streets, and certainly not anger or disgust or a complete lack of understanding like your OP demonstrates.Most of us are only a few steps away from being in the same situation. I don't know about you, but I'm damn grateful I'm not worrying about living under canvas for the winter. Shame on you OP.

The OP is a rabid Ulster loyalist fanatic. This isn't the first tirade she's come out with. You think she doesn't like the homeless? Ask her about northern Catholics!

Boom_Bap

This is not the only tent in the Park, there is one beside the tall yoke, one beside the Island Bridge entrance, one down at Chapelizod....and they are the ones that I have just seen.
There is also a tent at the Finglas exit of the M50 and the Ballymun exit....although that could be the same person moving about.

A Battered Mars Bar

I love the "I left home at 14 and work 16 hours a day" brigade. Some saps to be still slaving away for nothing, should have been able to retire at 20 if they were anyway smart.

Mary63

I have never posted anything about Northern Catholics,what are you on about Jesus.

I will have young adults myself trying to buy a house in a few years,they have killed themselves in school and in University so they will succeed.They will work till they are seventy supporting their families and they will also have to support all the tent dwellers,the Nissan Micra dwellers,the hotel dwellers and every other person who wants all their civic rights but doesn't want to work a day in their lives.

I will be pushing mine on to the plane and telling them to make their home somewhere they can have a life.The problem now is all the professional young people who are productive are delaying their families and having smaller families while the ones who look to everyone else to support them are having four five and six children.How is this eventually going to work out.If we don't have enough people working and paying taxes who is going to fund the pensions for everyone,we are all living longer including the ones who have lived off the rest of us for most of their lives so who is going to fund the medical costs.

The feckless ones with the bigger families also have the most unhealthy diet.The long term unemployed cook less nutritious home cooked food than the professionals.What in the name of HGod do they do all day.Their children are also the obese toddlers,teens and young adults so therefore will cost the health service much more than the children of the professional couples.Guess who has the medical card and can trot off to the GP when the notion takes them.I would have to be dying before I visit my GP because he charges sixty euros as soon as you ring the door bell.

I was wondering too where the male partner was,he is probably a big healthy thirty five year old so no one is going to have any sympathy for him,on your bike etc.he was probably hiding in the tent.Why didn't the Irish Times print the reason that these people have been turned away from the homeless services,we can read between the lines so why fudge the issue.Why wasn't this woman asked about her employment history,surely be to goodness she has been employed at some stage in the last eighteen years.

The flying mouse

Jesus. wrote: »

The OP is a rabid Ulster loyalist fanatic. This isn't the first tirade she's come out with. You think she doesn't like the homeless? Ask her about northern Catholics!

You mixing this Mary with maryishere ..bloody Mary's...

PowerToWait

I saw them near the magazine fort today. Her fella was dressed like he was heading up K2, decked out in some fairly deadly looking mountaineering gear.

I must say the nodding head on him in that garb did raise a smile.

meeeeh

It's a couple that was in and out of homeless services for several years. I have a feeling that a bit more is needed here than just a house.

evolvedmarmite

OP, that's the funniest thing I've read in a long time Thanks for the laugh.

You've covered homelessness, taxation, long term unemployed, obesity, diet, doctor's fees and emigration, the property ladder and you've even had the bare faced cheek to lump Nissan Micras in with the "feckless". How dare you.

At least you missed out single mothers. God knows it's about time they got a break from being the root of all evil.

HellSquirrel

Mary63 wrote: »

I have never posted anything about Northern Catholics,what are you on about Jesus.

I will have young adults myself trying to buy a house in a few years,they have killed themselves in school and in University so they will succeed.They will work till they are seventy supporting their families and they will also have to support all the tent dwellers,the Nissan Micra dwellers,the hotel dwellers and every other person who wants all their civic rights but doesn't want to work a day in their lives.-

The three spirits haven't arrived yet then?

Seriously though, that's practically Dickensien. This isn't the usual AH ranting against people who are comfortable, safe, doing okay and seeming to demand more, this is a couple literally living in Phoenix Park in a tent. You ignore (pretty willfully at that) all the problems and obstacles obviously facing this pair and that they by anyone's standards living in a wealthy modern country, need help.

Yeah, your kids will succeed, good on them. They've had a lot going for them. Do you actually begrudge someone else's kid who didn't have so much going for them a roof over their heads and help onto their feet?

And obviously there's no magic bullet to solve homelessness, else it would have been used by now, but that's no reason not to help out practically in the cases its neccessary. Two less people stuck sleeping in a tent in Phoenix Park is a good thing, isn't it.

PARlance

The flying mouse wrote: »

You mixing this Mary with maryishere ..bloody Mary's...

Touchy subject there. Mary's have been confusing that lad since he was born.

Mary63

The whole lot and they are all connected.

Its just easier for ever growing numbers not to work at all and unfortunately we are stuck with them because no other country wants them either.Its the best and the brightest who are emigrating because what is the point in staying here,working all day everyday with your children in a creche,paying a stupid mortgage while the person in the house next door has been given the same house by the County Council and is paying rent based on their income,e.g.very little because officially they are living on the dole.You are paying huge sums in taxation,PRSI,USC,property Taxes etc etc.If your income goes down try telling the bank that you want the mortgage to be on an income based differential scheme!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh for Gods sake squirrel,the big obstacle facing this couple is the fact that they have no job.They can get over that obstacle very quickly by just taking whatever the most menial job going is.They must surely be capable of collecting trollies in a supermarket or picking up the rubbish off the street.Anything has to be better than sitting in a tent whining about the cold.

Surely there must be Bye Laws about setting up tents in public parks,why don't the Parks Authorities ask them to leave.

Esel

Giz a space after punctuation marks.

corner of hells

Mary63 wrote: »

The whole lot and they are all connected.

Its just easier for ever growing numbers not to work at all and unfortunately we are stuck with them because no other country wants them either.Its the best and the brightest who are emigrating because what is the point in staying here,working all day everyday with your children in a creche,paying a stupid mortgage while the person in the house next door has been given the same house by the County Council and is paying rent based on their income,e.g.very little because officially they are living on the dole.You are paying huge sums in taxation,PRSI,USC,property Taxes etc etc.If your income goes down try telling the bank that you want the mortgage to be on an income based differential scheme!!!!!!!!!!!

I work in homeless services Mary , knock it off for a bit.

Mary63

The media is encouraging this nonsense,every selfie that is posted of this couple in their tent is being viewed by other people who want the forever house but don't want to work to pay for it.

Where is the money going to come from to build the thousands of houses promised.

Your Face

Salt of the earth.

evolvedmarmite

Actually Mary63, I think much of the problem is people like you, who think that there is a "them and us". Society is ALL of us, from the homeless to the millionaires and everyone in between. We live in the society we have all created. Every day that we go about our lives we are contributing to our community in some way, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. Arguably, even though you may be doing everything "right" in practical matters, if all you have to offer the world outside of that bubble is hatred of those less fortunate, are you really one of the "good" ones?

Intolerance does far more damage to society than the very small minority of people who you seem to think are stealing your money from you. Blind ignorance as displayed in your stream of consciousness is doing harm to the country too. It's very easy to hide behind your hateful opinions, because you are in the very fortunate position of living in a way that is deemed "acceptable" right now. Be careful because life often has a funny way of handing us exactly what we fear or hate the most.

HellSquirrel

"Are there no prisons, no poorhouses? The homeless must go there!"

I'm honestly curious where you expect them to go. We closed down the workhouses, something about their being inhumane. And you obviously feel that they aren't in dire enough straits to be allowed to avail of the social welfare system set up in part so people weren't living on the streets (or in a city park, hardly the safest of places to be sleeping except in extremity).

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

The whole lot and they are all connected.

Its just easier for ever growing numbers not to work at all and unfortunately we are stuck with them because no other country wants them either.Its the best and the brightest who are emigrating because what is the point in staying here,working all day everyday with your children in a creche,paying a stupid mortgage while the person in the house next door has been given the same house by the County Council and is paying rent based on their income,e.g.very little because officially they are living on the dole.You are paying huge sums in taxation,PRSI,USC,property Taxes etc etc.If your income goes down try telling the bank that you want the mortgage to be on an income based differential scheme!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh for Gods sake squirrel,the big obstacle facing this couple is the fact that they have no job.They can get over that obstacle very quickly by just taking whatever the most menial job going is.They must surely be capable of collecting trollies in a supermarket or picking up the rubbish off the street.Anything has to be better than sitting in a tent whining about the cold.

Surely there must be Bye Laws about setting up tents in public parks,why don't the Parks Authorities ask them to leave.

Where do you think they should go then, when they are kicked out of the park?
How do you suggest they get jobs? No bathroom or toilet facilities?
I am one of those paying my way, I pay taxes, prsi, USC, pension levy, property tax, I even paid my water bills without complaint.
At least I have the cop on to know that I am better off then these people. Do you think they choose to be homeless?
Have a heart mary.

Mary63

They can get themselves a job or at least look for one.

They are young,thirty five is no age,if they don't get some type of employment before they are forty the rest of us will be supporting them for the next fifty years.

They can leave Dublin,even if they don't want to work they could be housed in a remote area at a much cheaper cost to the taxpayer than looking to be housed in Dublin.The homeless need to be dispersed out of the cities and if they don't like where they end up the deal is they come back to Dublin and sort out their own accommodation.

There are empty houses all around the country that could be done up by homeless people for their own use.Its time now for effective action to be taken to deal with this problem.

corner of hells is probably wasting his or her time working in the homeless service,there just aren't enough houses to go around and too many people living in Dublin.Paying the salaries of people working in the homeless service just to tell the homeless there is nothing that can be done is utterly pointless.

Feisar

Mary63 wrote: »

The problem now is all the professional young people who are productive are delaying their families and having smaller families while the ones who look to everyone else to support them are having four five and six children.How is this eventually going to work out.If we don't have enough people working and paying taxes who is going to fund the pensions for everyone,we are all living longer including the ones who have lived off the rest of us for most of their lives so who is going to fund the medical costs.

While Mary may be getting a hard time there is a point here. If the middle class continue to have one to two children and the non working class have four to five how will the system work? On the basis that the middle class's offspring will produce productive members of society and the non working class will produce non working class.

corner of hells

Mary63 wrote: »

They can get themselves a job or at least look for one.

They are young,thirty five is no age,if they don't get some type of employment before they are forty the rest of us will be supporting them for the next fifty years.

They can leave Dublin,even if they don't want to work they could be housed in a remote area at a much cheaper cost to the taxpayer than looking to be housed in Dublin.The homeless need to be dispersed out of the cities and if they don't like where they end up the deal is they come back to Dublin and sort out their own accommodation.

There are empty houses all around the country that could be done up by homeless people for their own use.Its time now for effective action to be taken to deal with this problem.

corner of hells is probably wasting his or her time working in the homeless service,there just aren't enough houses to go around and too many people living in Dublin.Paying the salaries of people working in the homeless service just to tell the homeless there is nothing that can be done is utterly pointless.

I work specifically with low threshold service users , often with year's of addiction, entrenched rough sleeping, mental and physical ill health.

Do you reckon sticking them in a house would solve thier issues overnight ?

Feisar

Feisar wrote: »

While Mary may be getting a hard time there is a point here. If the middle class continue to have one to two children and the non working class have four to five how will the system work? On the basis that the middle class's offspring will produce productive members of society and the non working class will produce non working class.

Is there some reason you assume that children of non working parents cannot be working adults themselves?

mynamejeff

kidneyfan wrote: »

It's called a council house Mary. We don't all have big inheritances waiting for us Mary.

we dont all depend on the state to put roofs over our houses or food in out bellies kidneyfan

some of us work to get money which we use to pay for stuff we would like.

bodhrandude

evolvedmarmite wrote: »

Actually Mary63, I think much of the problem is people like you, who think that there is a "them and us". Society is ALL of us, from the homeless to the millionaires and everyone in between. We live in the society we have all created. Every day that we go about our lives we are contributing to our community in some way, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. Arguably, even though you may be doing everything "right" in practical matters, if all you have to offer the world outside of that bubble is hatred of those less fortunate, are you really one of the "good" ones?

Intolerance does far more damage to society than the very small minority of people who you seem to think are stealing your money from you. Blind ignorance as displayed in your stream of consciousness is doing harm to the country too. It's very easy to hide behind your hateful opinions, because you are in the very fortunate position of living in a way that is deemed "acceptable" right now. Be careful because life often has a funny way of handing us exactly what we fear or hate the most.

A quote I remember from a Lost episode summed up what you just said, 'The universe has ways of course correcting.'

Esel

Mary63 wrote: »

They can get themselves a job or at least look for one.

They are young,thirty five is no age,if they don't get some type of employment before they are forty the rest of us will be supporting them for the next fifty years.

They can leave Dublin,even if they don't want to work they could be housed in a remote area at a much cheaper cost to the taxpayer than looking to be housed in Dublin.The homeless need to be dispersed out of the cities and if they don't like where they end up the deal is they come back to Dublin and sort out their own accommodation.

There are empty houses all around the country that could be done up by homeless people for their own use.Its time now for effective action to be taken to deal with this problem.

corner of hells is probably wasting his or her time working in the homeless service,there just aren't enough houses to go around and too many people living in Dublin.Paying the salaries of people working in the homeless service just to tell the homeless there is nothing that can be done is utterly pointless.

You are dealing from a stacked deck, and you don't even realise it.

Do you issue a regular newsletter?

Geuze

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? Was looking at a Journal article and they were giving the number of rough sleepers.

What is the number in Ireland, if you count emergency accommodation, sleeping rough, lost the house and sleeping in mammy's boxroom with the four kids, and so on?

Most homeless in Ireland do not sleep rough.

Rough sleepers are a (small) subset of the homeless.

shafty100

god help you mary your so angry , i hope you get some soon .but in the meantime mary ,take a stroll down sheriff street and start spouting your ****e and see how long you last

end of the road

Mary63 wrote: »

They can get themselves a job or at least look for one.

They are young,thirty five is no age,if they don't get some type of employment before they are forty the rest of us will be supporting them for the next fifty years.

who is going to employ them.

Mary63 wrote: »

They can leave Dublin,even if they don't want to work they could be housed in a remote area at a much cheaper cost to the taxpayer than looking to be housed in Dublin.

people often spout this suggestion but over all it is not really a solution. yes the rents outside dublin especially in remote areas may be cheeper, but you have the other costs associated with that, such as implementing the resources needed to help these people, which do exist in dublin but are either non existant or very thin outside it. to bring them up to standard or implement them would probably cost more long term, and you have all those people dispersed widely. that is why those from dublin needing housing must be housed there. outside dublin has it's own issues.

Mary63 wrote: »

The homeless need to be dispersed out of the cities and if they don't like where they end up the deal is they come back to Dublin and sort out their own accommodation.

spend the money and provide the resources at the same standard to dublin and we will talk about eradicating the homeless from the cities so you can pretend the problem doesn't exist. maybe you can change the law to force employers to employ homeless people, otherwise it's not going to happen.

Mary63 wrote: »

There are empty houses all around the country that could be done up by homeless people for their own use.

yeah, people looking for homes in those areas.

Mary63 wrote: »

Its time now for effective action to be taken to deal with this problem.

i absolutely agree. build the houses, encourage companies to come and invest and create jobs for people to go to, help people who have gone through hard times get back into education so they can be employed.

Mary63 wrote: »

corner of hells is probably wasting his or her time working in the homeless service,there just aren't enough houses to go around and too many people living in Dublin.

actually they're isn't enough people living in dublin or the cities. we need a population increase tbh. i can assure you those working in homeless services are not wasting their time, they do good work with more or less nothing and should be applauded not scoffed at.

Mary63 wrote: »

Paying the salaries of people working in the homeless service just to tell the homeless there is nothing that can be done is utterly pointless.

plenty working in such services get nothing, they volunteer. and i can bet they don't tell the homeless "they're is nothing that can be done" . i should imagine the conversation ends with "they're isn't much we can do but we will try find a bed for you if possible"

AskMyChocolate

Mary63 wrote: »

They can get themselves a job or at least look for one.

They are young,thirty five is no age,if they don't get some type of employment before they are forty the rest of us will be supporting them for the next fifty years.

They can leave Dublin,even if they don't want to work they could be housed in a remote area at a much cheaper cost to the taxpayer than looking to be housed in Dublin.The homeless need to be dispersed out of the cities and if they don't like where they end up the deal is they come back to Dublin and sort out their own accommodation.

There are empty houses all around the country that could be done up by homeless people for their own use.Its time now for effective action to be taken to deal with this problem.

corner of hells is probably wasting his or her time working in the homeless service,there just aren't enough houses to go around and too many people living in Dublin.Paying the salaries of people working in the homeless service just to tell the homeless there is nothing that can be done is utterly pointless.

In fairness Mary, the fact that you think that long-term homeless people have a life expectancy of 85 or 90 years just emphasises your utter disconnect between the reality of people in your situation and that of homeless people IMO.

suicide_circus

If she is being repeatedly turned away from homeless hostels I can guarantee you that it's because she is abusive and or shooting up in the hostel