Cyclists and the law,is anyone else sick of them breaking it

prunudo

mrcheez wrote: »

So I approach a pothole and instead of looking straight ahead to navigate around it, I look over my shoulder while magically navigating around the pothole using the eyes to the side of my head?

Nice trick.

No, you look ahead, notice said pothole, slow down if needed, quick glance to ensure there isn't another cyclist, or car that you're about to pull in front of and manuovere around said pothole.
Likewise if you're coming up behind a slower cyclist and wish to over take, quick look over shoulder to check to see if it's OK then proceed into the other traffic to overtake. Not just presuming that any car or truck or bus is 1.5m away because that's what the RSA tell people to do.
You can keep on cycling the way you do but I for one will always do a shoulder check/lifesaver. Call it habit or just self preservation but I won't be blindly swerving into traffic hoping for the best.

mrcheez

jvan wrote: »

I won't be blindly swerving into traffic hoping for the best.

That's what ears are for, if I hear a car coming up behind me then obviously I don't overtake.

If there's time to look then obviously I look, but if there's no time and I have to move out suddenly (e.g. a car suddenly pulls out from the side), then I'll sincerely hope the road user behind me is following the rules of the road and giving the required 1.5 m :rolleyes:

endagibson

TallGlass wrote: »

Just while I am at it, is there anything in the RTA that puts a time limit on moving off from a red light? Like earlier I was waiting around 6/7 mins at a light, must have gone rouge, dysfunctional or something. But can I legally move off from it, provided the way is clear, giving way to traffic on right etc..

I feel your pain. I was once stopped at a red light near Hartstown. I was keeping an eye on the other lights to either side and when they changed and the traffic stopped, I put the car in gear and grabbed the handbrake.

Imagine my disgust when the light activated and I discovered it was a mix of what I can only describe as somewhere between lime and chartreuse. I thought to myself, "well, I'm not having that" and, to the consternation of other road users and much horn-blowing, I did a u-turn and returned home, where I imbibed a swift brandy for my nerves.

Chuchote

jvan wrote: »

No, you look ahead, notice said pothole, slow down if needed, quick glance to ensure there isn't another cyclist, or car that you're about to pull in front of and manuovere around said pothole.
Likewise if you're coming up behind a slower cyclist and wish to over take, quick look over shoulder to check to see if it's OK then proceed into the other traffic to overtake. Not just presuming that any car or truck or bus is 1.5m away because that's what the RSA tell people to do.
You can keep on cycling the way you do but I for one will always do a shoulder check/lifesaver. Call it habit or just self preservation but I won't be blindly swerving into traffic hoping for the best.

Never been on a bike, then?

prunudo

Chuchote wrote: »

Never been on a bike, then?

No, never.

WindomEarle

jvan wrote: »

Surely the 1.5m rule is for the open road, plenty of cycle lanes in around the city where it is impossible for a car to move 1.5m away from a bike lane.

It's never 'impossible' to leave 1.5m space.

It may be difficult to leave 1.5m space without crossing the centre line. There are times when it is difficult to cross the centre line, like when it is a solid white line, or when there is oncoming traffic.

But it is not impossible, and the 1.5m rule is just as important in the city. If you can't leave 1.5m space, wait behind until you can.

Chuchote wrote: »

Wouldn't be a bad idea for the RSA and Gardaí to add training in this to their kindly giving-out of hi-viz and little blinky lights; they could block off a small road like one of the Temple Bar side streets and do it. A lot of new cyclists don't actually know how to look over the shoulder without swerving out.

While doing a lifesaver is certainly an important skill, I'd really prefer the Gardai and RSA focus their education and enforcement efforts on the major issues. Maybe they could block off a small road in Temple Bar, and show motorists how to drive along it without having a phone in their hand, and without breaking the speed limit?

Chuchote

Leaving enough space for cyclists:

Muahahaha

mrcheez wrote: »

It's not always possible to have time to look over your shoulder when you are suddenly confronted with a pothole (especially if it's raining and less visible until the last moment) since you need to keep your eyes ahead to ensure you can handle the danger in front. Turning your head around will result in a loss of balance or collision.
.

It is always possible. When I cycle I do so with both hands covering the brakes, always ready to engage at a split seconds notice. If you are cycling and cant see a pothole in front in enough time to engage your brakes then you are cycling too fast for the road conditions. Just because a cyclist can do 30kph doesnt mean they always should. Observing the road conditions and tailoring your riding is roadcraft for anyone, be they cyclist, motorcyclist or motorist.

mrcheez wrote: »

So I approach a pothole and instead of looking straight ahead to navigate around it, I look over my shoulder while magically navigating around the pothole using the eyes to the side of my head?

Nice trick.

There is a reason why it is called a lifesaver- it is a safety maneuver that will literally save your life. In the last few years alone doing lifesavers has saved my ass at least 3 times. If I hadnt of done the glance then I was going straight into the side of a car that was in my blind spot and which didnt show up in my mirror. It is no different for cyclists but unfortunately huge numbers of cyclists do not do the safety glance before moving road position, I see it all the time and it is asking for trouble.

mrcheez wrote: »

The responsibility lies with people coming up from behind that have to give 1.5m berth. If there's a collision, they are to blame. Simples.

No point being right if you are being carted off in an ambulance. Do you really want to let this responsibility for you remaining safe in the hands of a group of motorists who we all see regularly breaking red lights and driving like nobody but them matters?

mrcheez wrote: »

That's what ears are for, if I hear a car coming up behind me then obviously I don't overtake.

If there's time to look then obviously I look, but if there's no time and I have to move out suddenly (e.g. a car suddenly pulls out from the side), then I'll sincerely hope the road user behind me is following the rules of the road and giving the required 1.5 m :rolleyes:

Again you are placing your own safety in the hope that the person behind you is concentrating and not texting or similar. You will greatly enhance your own safety on the road for taking more responsibility for it yourself rather than wishful thinking that you can swerve out into traffic at speed and the car behind you will always react in time. Because they wont always, people are human after all.

Not trying to have a go at you or anything, as said Im both a cyclist and a motorcyclist and I see both groups as very vulnerable road users so give respect and space to cyclists when commuting and even the same when Im in a car. I just feel that going through motorcycle training makes you a safer cyclist and also a more conscious car driver too. As said lifesavers have saved my ass many times so there is just no way in the world Im moving position the road without doing one.

mrcheez

Muahahaha wrote: »

I just feel that going through motorcycle training makes you a safer cyclist and also a more conscious car driver too.

I've never done motorcycle training but I imagine the principal is the same in that it makes you more aware of what the road is like for a vulnerable road user.

Vulnerability would be classed as:

Cyclist > Motorcyclist > Vehicle driver (more vulnerable to LHS)

so I'd personally say it would be better to make "10 hours of urban cycling" a requirement for getting a driving license in urban centres (where possible of course.. probably not something for OAPs!) as it makes you a much better driver (and motorcyclist) and you have no problems "getting stuck" behind a cyclist until you can safely overtake.


(Although admittedly most of the dangerous encounters I've had have been with Kildare reg cars for some reason.. and Wicklow regs ... Dublin drivers less so unless it's a tradesman vehicle or taxi.. so perhaps it wouldn't work just applying this requirement to urban driver licenses)

Chuchote

In relation to cyclists and the law, this Israeli TED talk may be of interest:

Cienciano

Fian wrote: »

But I think his essential point was that a motorcyclist calling out cyclists for breaking red is a bit rich when motorcyclists habitually break rules too.

This is the boards cyclist defensive mode argument. Any criticism of any cyclist bad road habits and the cyclists brigade in with repeated posts of "Other people break the rules of the roads too, not just cyclists" argument. Well, this thread is about cyclists breaking lights, so we can discuss cyclists breaking lights. Start one about motorcyclists bad road habits if you like.
If you started a thread about tractors driving without lights, imagine someone coming onto that thread saying "well, 99% of drivers break the speed limit daily, so it's a bit rich complaining about tractors without lights".
If it's the case then no one in the country can ever complain about anything on the roads because you have probably done something wrong at some point. No discussion of any road traffic problem.

mrcheez

Fian wrote: »

But I think his essential point was that a motorcyclist calling out cyclists for breaking red is a bit rich when motorcyclists habitually break rules too.

What? Surely not.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057662802

Cienciano

Cienciano wrote: »

This is the boards cyclist defensive mode argument. Any criticism of any cyclist bad road habits and the cyclists brigade in with repeated posts of "Other people break the rules of the roads too, not just cyclists" argument. Well, this thread is about cyclists breaking lights, so we can discuss cyclists breaking lights. Start one about motorcyclists bad road habits if you like.
If you started a thread about tractors driving without lights, imagine someone coming onto that thread saying "well, 99% of drivers break the speed limit daily, so it's a bit rich complaining about tractors without lights".
If it's the case then no one in the country can ever complain about anything on the roads because you have probably done something wrong at some point. No discussion of any road traffic problem.

I think the issue is that so many people - on Boards, in the media, and out and about - have what appears to be an obsession with cyclists and the law. So people who cycle get irritated when yet ANOTHER thread is started saying 'hey some cyclists break lights'.

What makes this obsession truly nonsensical is that of course it isn't cyclists killing people on our roads. We all know who does that, but you won't find endless, tedious numbers of blowhards on the motor forums starting threads saying "I saw someone speeding today and shouted at them".

It appears that something about cyclists really, really winds up some motorists and motorcyclists, to the extent they lose all perspective. I don't know what it is.

Lumen

Cienciano wrote: »

Well, this thread is about cyclists breaking lights, so we can discuss cyclists breaking lights. Start one about motorcyclists bad road habits if you like.
If you started a thread about tractors driving without lights, imagine someone coming onto that thread saying "well, 99% of drivers break the speed limit daily, so it's a bit rich complaining about tractors without lights".
If it's the case then no one in the country can ever complain about anything on the roads because you have probably done something wrong at some point. No discussion of any road traffic problem.

OK, suppose I started a thread called "Why do Cork people steal things?" with an anecdote about witnessing a mugging in Cork.

You might reasonably complain "There's nothing intrinsically bad about Cork people, there are thieves in Dublin too".

And then I'd accuse you of whataboutery and going off-topic.

The distinction is that most reasonable people are able to discriminate between a Cork person and a thief who lives in Cork, yet when they see a person on a bike breaking a red light they see "cyclist breaking red light" not "person on a bike breaking a red light".

The people breaking red lights are the same people breaking speed limits in their cars/on their motorbikes.

mrcheez

Odd that the thread about motorcyclists breaking the law is locked yet this one is allowed to fester.


(well not really that odd... expected tbh)

Rory28

mrcheez wrote: »

Odd that the thread about motorcyclists breaking the law is locked yet this one is allowed to fester.


(well not really that odd... expected tbh)

you're a little drama stirrer arent you? the only odd thing here is your refusal to do lifesavers out of what appears to be stubbornness.

stewygriffin

mrcheez wrote: »

Odd that the thread about motorcyclists breaking the law is locked yet this one is allowed to fester.


(well not really that odd... expected tbh)

Because motorbikers actually know what a red light means,and they dont ride through them at busy traffic junctions.

Plus what you actually posted in your thread couldnt have happened,you completely contradicted yourself with your very own words and eh "story".
Stop and think about it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

mrcheez wrote: »

Odd that the thread about motorcyclists breaking the law is locked yet this one is allowed to fester.


(well not really that odd... expected tbh)

Probably because it was reported (by me) as a troll thread, tbh it was a silly attempt at one too.

If one has to conclude this thread it would probably be that people are mostly irresponsible kunts and break laws, and obey the laws which suits them.

In conclusion, people are kunts.

stewygriffin

Izaiah Helpless Switchblade wrote: »

Probably because it was reported (by me) as a troll thread, tbh it was a silly attempt at one too.

If one has to conclude this thread it would probably be that people are mostly irresponsible kunts and break laws, and obey the laws which suits them.

In conclusion, people are kunts.

Im actually a w^nker.














I'll get me coat now.
:pac::P:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

stewygriffin wrote: »

Im actually a w^nker

You passed me while I was out cycling (coast road between Howth and Portmarknock) recently and I thought 'Ah, there's that wanker from boards.ie' :pac:

In fairness you probably didn't want to chat to me in my lycra budgie smugglers again

stewygriffin

Izaiah Helpless Switchblade wrote: »

You passed me while I was out cycling (back road between Howth and Portmarknock) recently and I thought 'Ah, there's that wanker from boards.ie' :pac:

You probably didn't want to chat to me in my lycra budgie smugglers again

Im one of the BMW crowd now so.:pac::P
Have to get the racer back out and get back into cycling along Clontarf and out to Sutton again.Blow the cobwebs of me and get rid of the bit of tummy flab for the Crimbo dinner.:o

Chuchote

Rory28 wrote: »

you're a little drama stirrer arent you? the only odd thing here is your refusal to do lifesavers out of what appears to be stubbornness.

What was that idea about not attacking posters?

Rory28

Chuchote wrote: »

What was that idea about not attacking posters?

attacking?

bladespin

As Makikomi says, tbh I don't have much of a problem at all with cyclists, I don't care if they break a light, nothing to do with me, I'm more worried about the metal cage crushing me against something equally or more damaging.

frozenfrozen

I didn't have a problem with cyclists until this thread, fuk them up and down the road, used to wave at them nicely.. today I didn't wave!!!!!!!

take that you cyclists!!!!


hahahahahahaha http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057662802

mrcheez

Izaiah Helpless Switchblade wrote: »

Probably because it was reported (by me) as a troll thread, tbh it was a silly attempt at one too.

If one has to conclude this thread it would probably be that people are mostly irresponsible kunts and break laws, and obey the laws which suits them.

In conclusion, people are kunts.

Not trolling. Just demonstrating the hypocrisy of a group of road users being admonished by a group of road users that habitually break the law on a daily basis. I typically see guys using bus lanes as short cuts on a daily basis and have had a few close calls with these guys too.

listermint

mrcheez wrote: »

Not trolling. Just demonstrating the hypocrisy of a group of road users being admonished by a group of road users that habitually break the law on a daily basis. I typically see guys using bus lanes as short cuts on a daily basis and have had a few close calls with these guys too.

Group?

You've been told several times that people are individuals.

Their mode of transport is inconsequential.


Get over it.

WindomEarle

stewygriffin wrote: »

Because motorbikers actually know what a red light means,and they dont ride through them at busy traffic junctions.
.

Do they know how to read a speedometer? What percentage of motorbikers break the speed limit do you reckon?

frozenfrozen

WindomEarle wrote: »

Do they know how to read a speedometer? What percentage of motorbikers break the speed limit do you reckon?

ya but cyclists dont even pay ROAD tax!!!!!!!!!!!

Jawgap

stewygriffin wrote: »

Because motorbikers actually know what a red light means,and they dont ride through them at busy traffic junctions.

.......

Excellent.....now that motorbikers have mastered red lights maybe they can master staying out of cycle lanes (except when they're actually on a bicycle)?